US Election 2020

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konfab said:
The reason why people do that though is they sometimes cannot get an appointment with a GP.

One of the leftist defenders of the NHS that I follow on Twitter was complaining that he couldn't get a GP appointment for his kid that had a bad chest infection.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1207173468015513600


I might add that here in South Africa, where healthcare still has a few strands of capitalism in it, I have never had a shortage of GPs to visit.
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I get GP appointments the same day I call.
 
MightyQuin said:
www.theguardian.com

NHS failure is inevitable – and it will shock those responsible into action | Jan Filochowski

Facilities and staff are being stretched to a breaking point that will take costly short-term measures to fix, says former NHS trust CEO Jan Filochowski
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

www.bbc.com

10 charts that show why the NHS is in trouble

The NHS faces unrelenting pressure despite funding rising. Why?
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

www.forbes.com

U.K.'s Healthcare Horror Stories Ought To Curb Dems' Enthusiasm For Single-Payer

One look across the Atlantic, to the disaster unfolding in the United Kingdom's government-run healthcare system, ought to curb any enthusiasm for Medicare for All.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
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NHS is a central political tool as well. Every party knows the will die if the NHS fails, so opposing parties heckle eachother accusing eachother of how they are failing the NHS and how they will fix it.

It is not perfect, but it works.

I had cancer. Got picked up really early because of an NHS GP at my place of work. Was in hospital in no time at all. Treated and cancer free. Literally did not spend 1 pound on anything.

Had I been in SA, my medical aid would not have covered it fully. Would have eaten up my medical savings account.

So yeah I am biased, but in my experience it is a system that works.
 
buka001 said:
NHS is a central political tool as well. Every party knows the will die if the NHS fails, so opposing parties heckle eachother accusing eachother of how they are failing the NHS and how they will fix it.

It is not perfect, but it works.

I had cancer. Got picked up really early because of an NHS GP at my place of work. Was in hospital in no time at all. Treated and cancer free. Literally did not spend 1 pound on anything.

Had I been in SA, my medical aid would not have covered it fully. Would have eaten up my medical savings account.

So yeah I am biased, but in my experience it is a system that works.
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Your anecdote is completely irrelevant and does not change the facts about the NHS.

But then again I assume you haven't read ANY of those articles I linked....all of them based on facts, not on political blustery...
 
MightyQuin said:
Your anecdote is completely irrelevant and does not change the facts about the NHS.

But then again I assume you haven't read ANY of those articles I linked....all of them based on facts, not on political blustery...
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Didn't you get the memo? NHS isn't the problem, its where people live and work thats the problem, if they move, it'll be fine :giggle:
 
MightyQuin said:
Your anecdote is completely irrelevant and does not change the facts about the NHS.

But then again I assume you haven't read ANY of those articles I linked....all of them based on facts, not on political blustery...
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I read those articles 2 years ago, when they were written.

NHS is still going. Still building brand new hospitals.

Oh and I also read articles from 10 years ago and 20 years ago that say the same things.
 
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buka001 said:
Don't live in London and then your fine.
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Why? I thought central planning would be able to compensate for a high population density?

Anyway, if I were so lucky as to get an opportunity to move to the UK, Londonistan is about the last place I would pick. It is nice to go and visit, but there are simply too many people. It isn't unique to London though, I stay away from Cape Town CBD like the plague.
 
MightyQuin said:
Your anecdote is completely irrelevant and does not change the facts about the NHS.

But then again I assume you haven't read ANY of those articles I linked....all of them based on facts, not on political blustery...
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NHS is strained financially, nobody doubts that. But the fact is, it's the Tories who have used austerity measures to cut funding drastically. It accounts for a lower percentage of GDP than it used to, while costs have gone up in the same time.

AND while this is happening, you still won't find a Briton who will swap the NHS for the American system. Nothing can compare to the Randian horrors of the US healthcare system. 28 million uninsured, no coverage for out-of-state visits, different coverages for different insurances, half a million bankruptcies per year due to medical bills. The list goes on.

truthout.org

American Health Care Horror Stories: An Incomplete Inventory

Universal health care would make these tragedies and absurdities unthinkable.
truthout.org truthout.org
 
cerebus said:
NHS is strained financially, nobody doubts that. But the fact is, it's the Tories who have used austerity measures to cut funding drastically. It accounts for a lower percentage of GDP than it used to, while costs have gone up in the same time.

AND while this is happening, you still won't find a Briton who will swap the NHS for the American system. Nothing can compare to the Randian horrors of the US healthcare system. 28 million uninsured, no coverage for out-of-state visits, different coverages for different insurances, half a million bankruptcies per year due to medical bills. The list goes on.

truthout.org

American Health Care Horror Stories: An Incomplete Inventory

Universal health care would make these tragedies and absurdities unthinkable.
truthout.org truthout.org
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You are not making a good argument for the efficiency of public healthcare when it continuously needs more taxpayer funds to survive... Doesn't matter if the Tories cut the budget or not.

The US healthcare system is not a "Randian" system. If you want to talk about what Ayn Rand, at least bother to understand her arguements. There wouldn't be any government spending on healthcare in a "Randian" system, nor would there be laws that force people to buy healthcare.
https://ari.aynrand.org/issues/government-and-business/health-care/
 
I just can take any South African that argues for more government seriously.

Obviously government/communism/socialism is the problem, thinking that SA is a shíthole just because of the Africans would be racist.
 
konfab said:
You are not making a good argument for the efficiency of public healthcare when it continuously needs more taxpayer funds to survive... Doesn't matter if the Tories cut the budget or not.
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Of course it matters if the budget gets cut. Are you being deliberately obtuse?

The US healthcare system is not a "Randian" system. If you want to talk about what Ayn Rand, at least bother to understand her arguements. There wouldn't be any government spending on healthcare in a "Randian" system, nor would there be laws that force people to buy healthcare.
https://ari.aynrand.org/issues/government-and-business/health-care/
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US healthcare system is the closest thing you're going to get to privatized libertarian ideals. And it doesn't work, not for anyone apart from the employers who use health insurance as a golden handcuff.
 
konfab said:
Why? I thought central planning would be able to compensate for a high population density?

Anyway, if I were so lucky as to get an opportunity to move to the UK, Londonistan is about the last place I would pick. It is nice to go and visit, but there are simply too many people. It isn't unique to London though, I stay away from Cape Town CBD like the plague.
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Yeah, its nice to visit once every few months, but honestly the countryside, the quality of life here is amazing.
 
cerebus said:
Of course it matters if the budget gets cut. Are you being deliberately obtuse?
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I am looking at the spending over the past few decades. If it were a fixed percentage of the economy, your argument would make sense about it being more efficient.

cerebus said:
US healthcare system is the closest thing you're going to get to privatized libertarian ideals. And it doesn't work, not for anyone apart from the employers who use health insurance as a golden handcuff.
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That is a complete strawman. The US healthcare system is ridiculously far away from "libertarian".

If you wanted what a libertarian type of universal healthcare would look like, it would look like the following:
1) The government does a means assessment on people and determines whether they need help or not.
2) If they need help, they get a healthcare voucher which they can either buy healthcare directly with, save in a medical savings account or purchase insurance.

That is it. And that would be far better than what the US has right now.

The systems in the Netherlands and Switzerland follow similar principals, although with a lot more bloat.
 
buka001 said:
Yeah, its nice to visit once every few months, but honestly the countryside, the quality of life here is amazing.
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Where are you, buka?
I came from Wokingham in Berkshire, and while it has changed over the years, it was a beautiful place to grow up in.
 
konfab said:
It was ridiculous because paying a $1000 a month to a neurosurgeron is stupid.

If he had said: we are going to combine all the welfare programs into a single means tested cash grant, I would be 100% for it.
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaand you just increased administration and bureaucracy costs a thousand fold. The Universal in UBI is important for that very reason. Imagine how many brain dead paper pushers would need to be employed to means test the entire population.

I thought you were against big government?
 
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