US Election 2020

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Human rights are human rights.
Rights and their limitations only apply if applied equally.


What if we had a flat rate of 80% tax across the board?
The great thing about flat taxes, is that the people who vote for them pay the same as the people who pay most of them (at least in a sane country where most people are employed). Which means that you can't force taxes on others that you won't pay yourself.
Which means that there is an inherent democratic feedback mechanism. If you could convince 50% of people to vote for the government to take 80% of their money every month, I would be very surprised.
 
So today and since the start of these threads there has been so so so much boring straw man at labels. Here is my attempt at a humorous explanation of the truth.

View attachment 787805

I doubt that this will get through to anybody calling Bernie a communist but it was fun to make.
Of course it was fun for you to make - you're a Bernie fan.

You left off "peasant" from Bernie's Gov Spending box (as you have it for the others), and your Bernie Property Rights box has no condescending pejorative as you have for the others. All your Gov Spending and Property Rights boxes are a misrepresentation. What fun!
 
This post is dedicated to all those of the "Bernie isn't a communist, he's a socialist" choir.

Let's have a look at the names of some well known "socialist" states, past and present:
  • Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (ruled by Communist Party of the Soviet Union)
  • People's Republic of China (ruled by Communist Party of China)
  • Republic of Cuba (ruled by Communist Party of Cuba)
  • Socialist Republic of Romania (ruled by Romanian Communist Party)
  • Democratic People's Republic of Korea (Constitution: The Democratic People's Republic of Korea is an independent socialist state representing the interests of all the Korean people)
  • Socialist Republic of Vietnam (ruled by Communist Party of Vietnam)
  • Czechoslovak Socialist Republic (ruled by Communist Party of Czechoslovakia)
  • German Democratic Republic (ruled by Socialist Unity Party of Germany)
  • Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic (ruled by Communist Party of the Soviet Union)
  • Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (ruled by League of Communists of Yugoslavia)
  • Third Reich (ruled by National Socialist German Workers' Party)
  • Iraqi Republic pre-2005 (Constitution: Its [the country's] basic objective is the realization of one Arab State and the build-up of the socialist system)
  • Egypt pre-2007 (Constitution: The Arab Republic of Egypt is a democratic, socialist state based on the alliance of the working forces of the people)
  • Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya pre-2011 (Constitution: The aim of the state is the realization of socialism through the application of social justice which forbids any form of exploitation)
  • Syrian Arab Republic (Constitution: The leading party in the society and the state is the Socialist Arab Ba'ath Party. It leads a patriotic and progressive front seeking to unify the resources of the people's masses and place them at the service of the Arab nation's goals
I know some clever people will try to tell us there are nuanced differences, the reality is communism and socialism have always gone hand in hand. The one is a political system, the other an economic system. If Bernie's views are so different from the history (and associated fruit) of socialism he might want to consider a different description of his views. And before some of you get all stupid on this welfare, care for the poor, social justice etc are not socialism. Socialism is a distinct philosophy that everything belongs to everyone (look it up in any dictionary) and communism is then the method of governing this collective ownership.

Not this again ...

The Nazis were not socialists.

They maintained property rights.

Big bussiness reaped substantial profits.

The Nazis privatised many industries.

They banned worker unions.

They had a stock market.

Actual socialists were killed by the Nazis and were teh first people sent to concentration camps.

Everything did not belong to everyone under the Nazis. People owned their own propery, bussiness were private. The means of production was not owned by the collective.

INB4 Konfab.
 
Since everyone gets equal access to the service, they pay the same percentage of their income to get it. It doesn't target any particular group of people.

Until you realise that a percentage of zero is still zero. How dare you target only those with a job.

This post is dedicated to all those of the "Bernie isn't a communist, he's a socialist" choir.

Let's have a look at the names of some well known "socialist" states, past and present:
  • Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (ruled by Communist Party of the Soviet Union)
  • People's Republic of China (ruled by Communist Party of China)
  • Republic of Cuba (ruled by Communist Party of Cuba)
  • Socialist Republic of Romania (ruled by Romanian Communist Party)
  • Democratic People's Republic of Korea (Constitution: The Democratic People's Republic of Korea is an independent socialist state representing the interests of all the Korean people)
  • Socialist Republic of Vietnam (ruled by Communist Party of Vietnam)
  • Czechoslovak Socialist Republic (ruled by Communist Party of Czechoslovakia)
  • German Democratic Republic (ruled by Socialist Unity Party of Germany)
  • Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic (ruled by Communist Party of the Soviet Union)
  • Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (ruled by League of Communists of Yugoslavia)
  • Third Reich (ruled by National Socialist German Workers' Party)
  • Iraqi Republic pre-2005 (Constitution: Its [the country's] basic objective is the realization of one Arab State and the build-up of the socialist system)
  • Egypt pre-2007 (Constitution: The Arab Republic of Egypt is a democratic, socialist state based on the alliance of the working forces of the people)
  • Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya pre-2011 (Constitution: The aim of the state is the realization of socialism through the application of social justice which forbids any form of exploitation)
  • Syrian Arab Republic (Constitution: The leading party in the society and the state is the Socialist Arab Ba'ath Party. It leads a patriotic and progressive front seeking to unify the resources of the people's masses and place them at the service of the Arab nation's goals
I know some clever people will try to tell us there are nuanced differences, the reality is communism and socialism have always gone hand in hand. The one is a political system, the other an economic system. If Bernie's views are so different from the history (and associated fruit) of socialism he might want to consider a different description of his views. And before some of you get all stupid on this welfare, care for the poor, social justice etc are not socialism. Socialism is a distinct philosophy that everything belongs to everyone (look it up in any dictionary) and communism is then the method of governing this collective ownership.

Now you are just sprouting PragerU propaganda.
 
I know some clever people will try to tell us there are nuanced differences, the reality is communism and socialism have always gone hand in hand. The one is a political system, the other an economic system. If Bernie's views are so different from the history (and associated fruit) of socialism he might want to consider a different description of his views. And before some of you get all stupid on this welfare, care for the poor, social justice etc are not socialism. Socialism is a distinct philosophy that everything belongs to everyone (look it up in any dictionary) and communism is then the method of governing this collective ownership.

There is a very simple distinction in my mind between socialism and liberalism (or libertarianism if you want to use US terminology), and the difference is that of morality. Kant provides this very clearly in the Categorical Imperative:
“Act only according to that maxim by which you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law” is a purely formal or logical statement and expresses the condition of the rationality of conduct rather than that of its morality, which is expressed in another Kantian formula: “So act as to treat humanity, whether in your own person or in another, always as an end, and never as only a means.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/categorical-imperative

Bernie Sanders and his progressive followers don't view rich people as ends unto themselves, their wealth isn't fairly gained and thus the government must make it "fair".
Demanding that the Wealthiest Americans Pay Their Fair Share Isn’t Radical
https://berniesanders.com/issues/tax-extreme-wealth/

They view them as a means to an end.
 
Not this again ...

The Nazis were not socialists.

They maintained property rights.

Big bussiness reaped substantial profits.

The Nazis privatised many industries.

They banned worker unions.

They had a stock market.

Actual socialists were killed by the Nazis and were teh first people sent to concentration camps.

Everything did not belong to everyone under the Nazis. People owned their own propery, bussiness were private. The means of production was not owned by the collective.

INB4 Konfab.
The Nazis weren't real socialists, just democratic socialists. Change my mind.
 
Until you realise that a percentage of zero is still zero. How dare you target only those with a job.



Now you are just sprouting PragerU propaganda.
Not propoganda, just hard historical fact. What part of that post isn't historically verifiable?
 
The Nazis weren't real socialists, just democratic socialists. Change my mind.
They were an undemocratic, fascist dictatorship with a race based social welfare policy. The last bit is your clue as to how opposite they were in regards to socialism.
 
Not this again ...

The Nazis were not socialists.

They maintained property rights.

Big bussiness reaped substantial profits.

The Nazis privatised many industries.

They banned worker unions.

They had a stock market.

Actual socialists were killed by the Nazis and were teh first people sent to concentration camps.

Everything did not belong to everyone under the Nazis. People owned their own propery, bussiness were private. The means of production was not owned by the collective.

INB4 Konfab.
If you're triggered by the German socialists, ignore that line. The rest of the list remains.
 
If you're triggered by the German socialists, ignore that line. The rest of the list remains.
Edit your post and take out the factually incorrect one, regarding the false claim that the Nazis were Socialists, if you want to portray a modicum of factual accuracy.
 
They were an undemocratic, fascist dictatorship with a race based social welfare policy. The last bit is your clue as to how opposite they were in regards to socialism.
So exactly like the progressives of today who like to call themselves democratic socialists.
 
Edit your post and take out the factually incorrect one, regarding the false claim that the Nazis were Socialists, if you want to portray a modicum of factual accuracy.
What should I change their official name to?
 
Not propoganda, just hard historical fact. What part of that post isn't historically verifiable?

You mean besides the historical fact that a countries name doesnt actually represent their political persuasion?
 
They maintained property rights.
You are just being retarded:
Whether Jewish citizens stayed in Germany and Austria or left, they were doomed to lose much, if not all, their property. Just under half of those assets went directly to the German state. According to Hayes, in the national budget for 1938-1939, an entire 5 percent came solely from wealth confiscated from Jews. The rest of the assets went to non-Jewish citizens, in the form of houses, businesses and goods sold for vastly less than their value.

This left Jewish citizens without means of supporting themselves, without homes, and without any connection to their previous lives. As historian Lisa Silverman writes of the edict’s effect in Austria, “The failure of law to protect their property was one of the first steps toward the erasure of both the present and future identities of Austrian Jews.”

And ordinary citizens were more than willing to participate in the looting of Jewish property. “When the Nazis wipe out the Jewish inhabitants of a village in eastern Poland [later in the war], one of the first things they would do is distribute all the property to the locals,” Hayes says. “This was a way of winning popular support. It created a complicity between the occupiers and the occupied, and a common interest, and the Nazis exploited that.”
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/hist...their-wealthmaking-it-easier-steal-180968894/

Are property rights human rights if they only apply to certain people?
 
Of course it was fun for you to make - you're a Bernie fan.

You left off "peasant" from Bernie's Gov Spending box (as you have it for the others), and your Bernie Property Rights box has no condescending pejorative as you have for the others. All your Gov Spending and Property Rights boxes are a misrepresentation. What fun!
I will amend when I'm back at a desk to change it from being fun, to fun for the whole family!

Edit: I'm YangGang for life btw. I'm a fan of Bernie's policies but not of the man himself
 
They were an undemocratic, fascist dictatorship with a race based social welfare policy. The last bit is your clue as to how opposite they were in regards to socialism.
They fully controlled the means of production to implement their racial nationalism.

The part that you don't like about this, is that businesses won't generally discriminate against people. They only do it when the government compels them to. That compulsion/force is socialism.
 
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