US politics general thread

[Emjay]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...-now-cost-americans-more-than-obamacare-taxes

Trump's tariffs now cost Americans more than Obamacare taxes

On Sept. 19, President Trump imposed a 10 percent tax on $200 billion of Chinese imports. On Jan. 1, 2019, this tax will rise to 25 percent. But even without that January tariff rate increase, trade taxes on American businesses and consumers will exceed those of the ACA.

With the added $20 billion in trade taxes coming from this latest round of tariffs, the National Taxpayers Union Foundation now estimates the total annual cost of enacted tariffs to be $41.65 billion. That easily outpaces the tax bill from the Affordable Care Act for next year ($34.6 billion) after accounting for recent changes to the ACA.

Interesting. Looks like a game of chicken.

 

[Pitbull]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...-now-cost-americans-more-than-obamacare-taxes

Trump's tariffs now cost Americans more than Obamacare taxes

On Sept. 19, President Trump imposed a 10 percent tax on $200 billion of Chinese imports. On Jan. 1, 2019, this tax will rise to 25 percent. But even without that January tariff rate increase, trade taxes on American businesses and consumers will exceed those of the ACA.

With the added $20 billion in trade taxes coming from this latest round of tariffs, the National Taxpayers Union Foundation now estimates the total annual cost of enacted tariffs to be $41.65 billion. That easily outpaces the tax bill from the Affordable Care Act for next year ($34.6 billion) after accounting for recent changes to the ACA.

I'm trying to understand this...

How are Americans being "taxed" by these import taxes from China? These are things that are available locally or from other destinations. So the public has a choice who to buy from which would mean they would probably avoid the "taxed" imports as it will be more expensive.

I don't see how this comparison is being done with the taxes on ACA... Makes no sense, it's like comparing apples to oranges.

 

[cerebus]

I don't see how this comparison is being done with the taxes on ACA... Makes no sense, it's like comparing apples to oranges.

You're right, Americans actually have tangible benefits from the ACA.

 

[Pitbull]

You're right, Americans actually have tangible benefits from the ACA.

They also have a choice on which products they buy...

Either way, it's a stupid comparison. Not denying it will have an effect, one we will still need to quantify as it's a trade war and one or the other will fold eventually. China is over estimating it's need to the American people.

 

[Pitbull]

"When they go low, we kick 'em."

Nice one. Just like the type of behaviour from the Leftist mobs.

Your response is in no way better. It's actually worse, as he apologised and then you proceed to rub more salt into the wound. Why don't you just gracefully let it lie there as you made your point more than clear?

I didn't apologize to him or for him. I apologized to Cerebus as that is the post he posted and I got it confused. I can't give two turds about Aquila

 

[cerebus]

"When they go low, we kick 'em."

You know he wasn't talking about mob violence right? That's just Tucker Carlson's normal brand of bug-eyed fearmongering spinning a single line out of all context. He was talking about being willing to use the same dirty political tactics that the right are employing.

Your response is in no way better. It's actually worse, as he apologised and then you proceed to rub more salt into the wound. Why don't you just gracefully let it lie there as you made your point more than clear?

You mean like how you guys are still bringing up the posts about the OK sign, which I retracted?

 

[Emjay]

You're right, Americans actually have tangible benefits from the ACA.

The tangible benefits of this will not come out anytime soon. We will only see the real impact of these tariff wars in 12 to 24 months I think. I have been trying to unpack it all, and it's beyond complex. If you are interested, there is a podcast on Freakanomics from some head guy at the WTO and he talks a little around tariffs and how they are set, the intricacies around the process and some history.

Trade tariffs and some trade agreements were set way back in post WW2 days I believe. Tariffs are also not negotiated on a product by product basis, but rather by categories. So, there is a lot more going on that the media is not presenting. The WTO was established in those days to fast track economic growth on a very large scale after the war. Many of those tariffs that have been changed have not been renegotiated since then, and some countries are benefiting unfairly. The USA is a big economy, and Trump has a point when he said they don't have to be penalised because of that (I am paraphrasing a bit). There are also zero trade protections in place with China, and I think the USA government is just tired of it, and their shenanigans. The recent Supermicro hacking scandal that came out of China shows how far the Chinese are willing to go.

The US is putting taxes on imports. The article is making a pre-supposition that over time people will still buy those Chinese goods with those higher taxes. I am not well read or an expert by any stretch of the imagination on this, but I would imagine the idea is to try get local manufacturing started up again. I am sure Trump is fiddling and negotiating with an end outcome in mind. It could be a game of chicken to make the Chinese markets play more fair, and maybe put in some protections for the US market.

You mean like how you guys are still bringing up the posts about the OK sign, which I retracted?

I don't know what you are talking about as I must have missed it, and I have never treated anyone in such a manner. I try not to because it is quite dick'ish.

As for the podcast, here is the link to the site: http://freakonomics.com/archive/

The podcast I am referring to is the "Can This Man Stop a Trade War?". Ironically, and which applies to this thread a little today, is a podcast on "How to Optimize Your Apology (Ep. 353)". Maybe we should just step down the rhetoric a little, and be a little more decent to each other.

 

[Cray]

For those wondering just how "one note" Pitbull has been in his interaction with the other side over the past few days...

Lol, yes. More dishonesty and deceit. Libtards be libtarding

Dishonest again. You are lacking a lot of comprehension lately...

You libtards must stop being so dishonest and deceitful

Maybe go and read the last 8 pages of yesterday. Not going through that again. He's dishonest and deceitful

You already got shown up to be nothing but dishonest and outright lying yesterday. Not even going to bother with these links, probably just more of you lacking comprehension and/or outright lying.

I see Cerebus succeeded in moving on swiftly as he has been found being deceitful and dishonest.

Why are you being so deceitful and dishonest?

You are now assuming what Trump thinks?
He never said he doesn't want them to have the right... You are being dishonest. He wants them to do it the LEGAL WAY! However long the legal way or process can or will take.

 

[Pitbull]

For those wondering just how "one note" Pitbull has been in his interaction with the other side over the past few days...

And?

It's all true. I admit to my mistakes though, I don't twist words in order to fit my agenda. But you know that, so I guess you're trying a character assassination of some sort and failing at it too... Shem

 

[Cray]

And?

It's all true. I admit to my mistakes though, I don't twist words in order to fit my agenda. But you know that, so I guess you're trying a character assassination

Really? All I did was quote your own posts where you relentlessly labelled all and sundry dishonest and deceitful, If you think that impinges on your character then the fault is with you...

 

[cerebus]

The tangible benefits of this will not come out anytime soon. We will only see the real impact of these tariff wars in 12 to 24 months I think. I have been trying to unpack it all, and it's beyond complex. If you are interested, there is a podcast on Freakanomics from some head guy at the WTO and he talks a little around tariffs and how they are set, the intricacies around the process and some history.

As for the podcast, here is the link to the site: http://freakonomics.com/archive/

http://freakonomics.com/archive/

I sub to the Freakonomics podcast. Also Planet Money had a good show on the trade wars recently:

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/09/26/651865781/tariffs-and-tourists-and-trade-wars-oh-my

Maybe we should just step down the rhetoric a little, and be a little more decent to each other.

Another nice podcast on this subject:

https://www.dancarlin.com/product/common-sense-318-for-whom-the-bell-trolls/

 

[rietrot]

For those wondering just how "one note" Pitbull has been in his interaction with the other side over the past few days...

Hopefully you are intelligent enough to realise the own goal you just scored.

 

[Cray]

Hopefully you are intelligent enough to realise the own goal you just scored.

Do tell...it's a slow Friday so you will have to forgive me if I don't quite get it.

 

[Aquila ka Hecate]

"When they go low, we kick 'em."

Nice one. Just like the type of behaviour from the Leftist mobs.

Your response is in no way better. It's actually worse, as he apologised and then you proceed to rub more salt into the wound. Why don't you just gracefully let it lie there as you made your point more than clear?

Absolutely not. This SOB has been harping on and on and on about lying "libtards" , while his entire contribution to the thread is lies or damned stupidity.

 

[cerebus]

Absolutely not. This SOB has been harping on and on and on about lying "libtards" , while his entire contribution to the thread is lies or damned stupidity.

And when it goes the other way, suddenly there's a call for 'civility'. I don't know where Emjay was when Pitbull was unleashing his personal insults and BS, but now calling him the same thing in return makes us "Leftist mobs" and we all need to be more graceful about taking it from the rear.

 

[Pitbull]

Really? All I did was quote your own posts where you relentlessly labelled all and sundry dishonest and deceitful, If you think that impinges on your character then the fault is with you...

No, I have no idea what the reason for your post was. But libtards will libtard

 

[rietrot]

And when it goes the other way, suddenly there's a call for 'civility'. I don't know where Emjay was when Pitbull was unleashing his personal insults and BS, but now calling him the same thing in return makes us "Leftist mobs" and we all need to be more graceful about taking it from the rear.

If you're having a discussion in good faith and someone says something wrong and then acknowledge and corrects it, the conversation can move on. That's kindoff how civilizations work, how we make progress when adults negotiate about anything.
It might be difficult for some to understand who never do this. Those ideologically possessed who believe they alone have all the answers and are always correct.

 

[Cray]

If you're having a discussion in good faith and someone says something wrong and then acknowledge and corrects it, the conversation can move on. That's kindoff how civilizations work, how we make progress when adults negotiate about anything.
.

Strange, and when Pitbull clearly doesn't follow those precepts you lot are as quiet as church mice about it...

 

[Cray]

No, I have no idea what the reason for your post was. But libtards will libtard

It wasn't for you benefit...

 

[rietrot]

Strange, and when Pitbull clearly doesn't follow those precepts you lot are as quiet as church mice about it...

How is it strange? This threads has been going for so long, the teams it pretty clearly set out.