US protests/riots 2020

[konfab]

And you want to treat murderers, paedophiles, rapists and thieves better than society treats law abiding citizens.

No I don't. And I am a firm believer that if someone is an immediate threat to your life or property, you have the right to shoot them on the spot.

Murderers, paedophiles, rapists and thieves, particularly the first three, should get prison for life, because I regard them as a danger to society that cannot be rectified. Thieves must get a prison sentence that suits the seriousness of their offence. Someone who steals a container of infant formula for their baby, whilst committing a crime, is not exactly doing it because they seriously want to hurt another human being.

And with prison reform, it ends up being a lower cost to society if you just educate the person well such that they know they can get more money if they are useful to other human beings.

 

[rvZA]

More on this:

DeSantis signs Florida's 'anti-riot' bill into law

Gov. Ron DeSantis on Monday signed into law Florida’s "anti-riot" bill, which increases penalties for crimes committed during a riot and is aimed at "combating public disorder."

www.foxnews.com

Holy Shyte.

This should have been done long time ago already. You cannot leave this anarchy and chaos to police only. Time to restore order.

 

[tetrasect]

"Treating violence as a disease".

Fuk me.

I am hugely in favour of prison reform, giving certain classes of prisoners the skills that they can use to make sure that they don't need to commit crime.

There are however crimes that are not committed because of economic need or upbringing, like most rape and murder, are not things you can teach people not to do.

Yes they are. These are behavioral problems in all but the most extreme cases where it stems from physical brain defects. Or are you actually suggesting that people are "murderers from birth"?

And some crimes like rape and murder is unanimously agreed upon to be punished, not live a life better than most south africans.

Agreed upon by whom?
How is being imprisoned for 20 years (without getting beaten and raped) not a punishment?
And in your punishment fantasy, who is doing the punishing?
Are you saying that once someone is in a prison they should be stripped of even their most basic human rights? That the rule of law should not be applied at all? That the bigger fish should be allowed to rape and torture the little fish without consequence?
And you actually imagine the outcome of such a situation is going to be positive?

Purposely inflicting suffering for the sake of it on any living thing is wrong. Especially if it is institutionalised.

Putting them in prison, and keeping them away from society is all that you need. Prisons shouldn't be a bloody holiday in like they are in Norway.

They are not like a holiday, but even if they were, the fact is that they work better than other prisons. Isn't that the goal? Wouldn't you rather have someone coming out of a "bloody holiday" completely rehabilitated and to return as a functioning member of society, rather than being exposed to severe mental and physical torture (cause lets face it, that's what it is) and returning to society angry, broken and more dangerous than ever?

 

[Moosedrool]

Yes they are. These are behavioral problems in all but the most extreme cases where it stems from physical brain defects. Or are you actually suggesting that people are "murderers from birth"?



Agreed upon by whom? How is being imprisoned for 20 years (without getting beaten and raped) not a punishment?
And in your punishment fantasy, who is doing the punishing?
Are you saying that once someone is in a prison they should be stripped of even their most basic human rights? That the rule of law should not be applied at all? That the bigger fish should be allowed to rape and torture the little fish without consequence?
And you actually imagine the outcome of such a situation is going to be positive?



They are not like a holiday, but even if they were, the fact is that they work better than other prisons. Isn't that the goal? Wouldn't you rather have someone coming out of a "bloody holiday" completely rehabilitated and to return as a functioning member of society, rather than being exposed to severe mental and physical torture (cause lets face it, that's what it is) and returning to society angry, broken and more dangerous than ever?

Being beaten and raped is still illegal. Unfortunately it happens in prison but that is obviously not what I mean by punished.

I never said I condone that. But I definitely don't condone a hotel like environment with a life (most people in the world struggle to achieve working) waiting for a criminal on the other end of his/her 21 year journey.

 

[wbot]

Lmao

https://twitter.com/x/status/1385066387736047617

 

[tetrasect]

Being beaten and raped is still illegal. Unfortunately it happens in prison but that is obviously not what I mean by punished.

I never said I condone that. But I definitely don't condone a hotel like environment with a life (most people in the world struggle to achieve working) waiting for a criminal on the other end of his/her 21 year journey.

They are still confined to their rooms for 12 hours a day. The main difference is that during the day they can take classes, go to workshops,make their own food, go to therapy or group sessions, play sports or go to the gym.

There is a direct relation between activity and aggression. That is why prisons where people are just stuffed in a cell and left there are the most violent ones.

Basically you are saying that a prisoner being treated well is a bigger problem to you than a prisoner who upon release has become a hardened criminal, ready to re-offend.

 

[Moosedrool]

They are still confined to their rooms for 12 hours a day. The main difference is that during the day they can take classes, go to workshops,make their own food, go to therapy or group sessions, play sports or go to the gym.

There is a direct relation between activity and aggression. That is why prisons where people are just stuffed in a cell and left there are the most violent ones.

Basically you are saying that a prisoner being treated well is a bigger problem to you than a prisoner who upon release has become a hardened criminal, ready to re-offend.

No I'm saying using taxpayer money to treat them better than society and give them a better life than many who work for it is a big problem.

 

[konfab]

Yes they are. These are behavioral problems in all but the most extreme cases where it stems from physical brain defects. Or are you actually suggesting that people are "murderers from birth"?

Empathy, which is last check that people do for their behaviour before they do something horrible, cannot be taught. This is why a good chunk of people will kill another person if told to do so by an expert in a lab coat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment#Replications_and_variations

A large portion of people do have the capacity for murder from birth. Yes socialisation can and does have an effect on this, but the underlying capacity is still there.

They are not like a holiday, but even if they were, the fact is that they work better than other prisons. Isn't that the goal? Wouldn't you rather have someone coming out of a "bloody holiday" completely rehabilitated and to return as a functioning member of society, rather than being exposed to severe mental and physical torture (cause lets face it, that's what it is) and returning to society angry, broken and more dangerous than ever?

Do you think giving Breivik a PS5 would make him into a non-violent person?

The trial, which was held in the Skien prison gym, revealed that Breivik has three cells to himself - one for living, one for studying, and one for exercise - and they are filled with amenities such as a TV, DVD player, the torturously-old Playstation 2 console, a typewriter, books, and newspapers.

https://www.rt.com/news/340356-breivik-verdict-playstation-torture/

 

[tetrasect]

Empathy, which is last check that people do for their behaviour before they do something horrible, cannot be taught. This is why a good chunk of people will kill another person if told to do so by an expert in a lab coat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment#Replications_and_variations

A large portion of people do have the capacity for murder from birth. Yes socialisation can and does have an effect on this, but the underlying capacity is still there.

Yes, everyone is capable of murder. You actually think a person who grew up in a family of vegetarian Buddhists is as likely to murder someone as a person growing up in a violent home or a warzone? HAHAHA

Didn't you just watch the video where they show how people who are exposed to violence are much more prone to commit violence?

Do you think giving Breivik a PS5 would make him into a non-violent person?

https://www.rt.com/news/340356-breivik-verdict-playstation-torture/

Yes, as long as he is playing video games he is not looking for a fight with other inmates. Is that so hard to understand?

In the long run I highly doubt he will be rehabilitated and will most likely die in there. Though who knows what will happen in the future? Just as everyone has the capacity to kill, everyone has the capacity to change.

 

[tetrasect]

No I'm saying using taxpayer money to treat them better than society and give them a better life than many who work for it is a big problem.

Yes, but the outcome of not doing that is that prisoners who get released are vastly more likely to re-offend.

You are saying the former is more of a problem than latter.

Plus as illustrated in the video, in the long run this system would actually work out cheaper.

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

Rape victims or family of murdered people I'm sure agree with you that these pieces of shyte should be living it up in prison. Christ that is some stupid view to have ...

 

[Barbarian Conan]

Rape victims or family of murdered people I'm sure agree with you that these pieces of shyte should be living it up in prison. Christ that is some stupid view to have ...

What is more important, that the perpetrator of a crime has a shitty time?
Or that they do not re-offend?

If (and I say if because I don't know how accepted the science is at this point) criminals going to nicer prisons have a significantly smaller chance to re-offend, is it not worth it?

 

[rietrot]

Purposely inflicting suffering for the sake of it on any living thing is wrong. Especially if it is institutionalised.

Putting them in prison, and keeping them away from society is all that you need. Prisons shouldn't be a bloody holiday in like they are in Norway.

That why prisoners should be make to work in order to literally pay for their crime plus cost.

Solves the problem of keeping people in cages for and arbitrary amount of time.

Death penalty for crimes that cannot be repaid.

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

What is more important, that the perpetrator of a crime has a shitty time?
Or that they do not re-offend?

If (and I say if because I don't know how accepted the science is at this point) criminals going to nicer prisons have a significantly smaller chance to re-offend, is it not worth it?

No it's not. Keep them locked away forever and have them have the worst that they can ..... you do violent crime there's no rehabilitation. Bugger the victims right, they must just get over it. Don't worry aunty, that guy that raped you and killed Uncle, he's playing PS5 now and having the best days ever! Gtfo.

 

[Barbarian Conan]

No it's not. Keep them locked away forever and have them have the worst that they can ..... you do violent crime there's no rehabilitation. Bugger the victims right, they must just get over it. Don't worry aunty, that guy that raped you and killed Uncle, he's playing PS5 now and having the best days ever! Gtfo.

Lets assume that locking them up forever is not an option, because it seems no government is willing to do that.

So, they WILL come out in 10 - 20 years depending on the crime.
Do you want someone more likely to offend to come out of the system and have a shittier time, or much less likely to offend but have a much more enjoyable time?

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

The people who do the heinous crimes are not able to be rehabilitated so the best I can hope for currently is that they do their whole 10 or 20 or 30 years, have a terrifying time of it and if they don't die in there, they are at least taught a lesson and are traumatised. My way and your way still leads to the same thing - no rehabilitation - but at least the swine get what's coming (hopefully).

 

[Temujin]

 

[Vorastra]

What kind of a country is it where you can't even stab someone without the police getting involved.

Biden's America.

 

[Temujin]

What kind of a country is it where you can't even stab someone without the police getting involved.

Biden's America.

Government rallying behind and supporting criminals and vilifying law enforcement... this is going to end well for them

 

[tetrasect]

The people who do the heinous crimes are not able to be rehabilitated so the best I can hope for currently is that they do their whole 10 or 20 or 30 years, have a terrifying time of it and if they don't die in there, they are at least taught a lesson and are traumatised. My way and your way still leads to the same thing - no rehabilitation - but at least the swine get what's coming (hopefully).

So you'd rather live in a malfunctioning society where violence keeps circling back in a vicious cycle in order to fulfill your sadistic revenge fantasy than living in a functioning society where violence is gradually reduced through compassion.

Good to know. And good luck to you.