Vegetarian/Vegan/Carnivore

[PostmanPot]

Where's the poll?

 

[BCO]

How about meat without the animal

CULTURED MEAT

Cultured meat is meat grown artificially from muscle cells in a lab or factory, instead of being taken from slaughtered animals. It is occasionally discussed in the popular and animal rights press. Despite raising some ethical problems for activists, it deserves support for many reasons, some of which are described here.

http://www.new-harvest.org/faq.htm
http://www.geocities.com/antipoultry/supportculturedmeat/indexwcm.html
http://www.whyculturedmeat.org/factors.php

I'd eat that. Although, having not eaten meat for quite a while now, I actually find that I've gone off the taste - last night I dipped a roast potato into a bit of the juice that was at the bottom of the container holding some braaied lamb chops and I found the taste to be quote overbearing in its meatiness.

 

[Srack0verflow]

no offence to vegiterians, but wasn't Hitler one?

 

[w1z4rd]

Such as?

Some excellent nutritional info:

http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/tc/healthy-eating-vegetarian-diets-organic-foods

http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/tc/healthy-eating-vegetarian-diets-organic-foods

"Unlike animal proteins, plant proteins may not contain all the essential amino acids in the necessary proportions. However, a varied vegetarian diet means a mixture of proteins are consumed, the amino acids in one protein compensating for the deficiencies of another. "

http://www.dietitian.com/vegetari.html

Erm... sure, and Ill go read up on how real the Qu`ran is at my local mosque. For more non-bias information please stay tuned.

I learnt a while ago to trust a nutritionist as much as I would someone who does Astral projection science. IE.. not at all. Theyre all snake oil salesman trying to sell you their vitamins. In these cases I have to revert back to the scientists who do the research rather than the vegan with an opinion.

A balanced diet is healthier than being a vegaterian, deny this all you want but history has shown that the average age in a population decreases when the food diet is mostly plant matter.

All primates need the trace elements found in meat. Even gorrilas who get it from the bugs they eat with their plant matter.

Its the stuff like omega 3 and the EXTREMELY highly concentrated nutrition we get from meat that has enabled the human primate to evolve so orsmly compared to other primates. Whats great about having this highly concentrated nutrition? It totally boots our immune system and gives us time to do other things instead of eating. Which is why your herbivores spend most of their day eating, and why your lion spends most of its day sleeping.

And dont pretend you are saving the rain forest by eating vitamin substitutes instead of the real mc coy. How did you think that vitamin was made? How much industrial waste and energy was used to create a single pill? A lot more than what nature would have done.

 

[BCO]

Erm... sure, and Ill go read up on how real the Qu`ran is at my local mosque. For more non-bias information please stay tuned.

I learnt a while ago to trust a nutritionist as much as I would someone who does Astral projection science. IE.. not at all. Theyre all snake oil salesman trying to sell you their vitamins. In these cases I have to revert back to the scientists who do the research rather than the vegan with an opinion.

A balanced diet is healthier than being a vegaterian, deny this all you want but history has shown that the average age in a population decreases when the food diet is mostly plant matter.

All primates need the trace elements found in meat. Even gorrilas who get it from the bugs they eat with their plant matter.

Its the stuff like omega 3 and the EXTREMELY highly concentrated nutrition we get from meat that has enabled the human primate to evolve so orsmly compared to other primates.

And dont pretend you are saving the rain forest by eating vitamin substitutes instead of the real mc coy. How did you think that vitamin was made? How much industrial waste and energy was used to create a single pill? A lot more than what nature would have done.

I'll quote some wikipedia then, coz we know you don't have a problem with that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism

Longevity

A 1999 metastudy[11] compared six major studies from western countries. The study found that the mortality ratio was the lowest in fish eaters (0.82) followed by vegetarians (0.84) and occasional meat eaters (0.84), and was then followed by regular meat eaters (1.0) and vegan (1.0).[73] When the study made its best estimate of mortality ratio with confounding factors considered, the mortality ratio for vegetarians was found to be (0.94).[74]

In "Mortality in British vegetarians",[12] it was concluded that "British vegetarians have low mortality compared with the general population. Their death rates are similar to those of comparable non-vegetarians, suggesting that much of this benefit may be attributed to non-dietary lifestyle factors such as a low prevalence of smoking and a generally high socio-economic status, or to aspects of the diet other than the avoidance of meat and fish."

The Adventist Health Study is an ongoing study of life expectancy in Seventh-day Adventists. This is the only study among others with similar methodology which had favourable indication for vegetarianism. The researchers found that a combination of different lifestyle choices could influence life expectancy by as much as 10 years. Among the lifestyle choices investigated, a vegetarian diet was estimated to confer an extra 1–1/2 to 2 years of life. The researchers concluded that "the life expectancies of California Adventist men and women are higher than those of any other well-described natural population" at 78.5 years for men and 82.3 years for women. The life expectancy of California Adventists surviving to age 30 was 83.3 years for men and 85.7 years for women.[75]

Adventist health study is again incorporated into meta studies titled "Does low meat consumption increase life expectancy in humans?" published in American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, which made the conclusion that low meat eating (less than once per week) and other life style choices significantly increase the life expectancy, relative to a group with high meat intake.[76] The study concluded that "The findings from one cohort of healthy adults raises the possibility that long-term (≥ 2 decades) adherence to a vegetarian diet can further produce a significant 3.6-y increase in life expectancy." However, the study also concluded that "Some of the variation in the survival advantage in vegetarians may have been due to marked differences between studies in adjustment for confounders, the definition of vegetarian, measurement error, age distribution, the healthy volunteer effect, and intake of specific plant foods by the vegetarians." It further states that "This raises the possibility that a low-meat, high plant-food dietary pattern may be the true causal protective factor rather than simply elimination of meat from the diet." In a recent review of studies relating low-meat diet patterns to all-cause mortality, Singh noted that "5 out of 5 studies indicated that adults who followed a low meat, high plant-food diet pattern experienced significant or marginally significant decreases in mortality risk relative to other patterns of intake."

Statistical studies, such as comparing life expectancy with regional areas and local diets in Europe also have found life expectancy considerably greater in southern France, where a low meat, high plant Mediterranean diet is common, than northern France, where a diet with high meat content is more common.[77]

A study by the Institute of Preventive and Clinical Medicine, and Institute of Physiological Chemistry looked at a group of 19 vegetarians (lacto-ovo) and used as a comparison a group of 19 omnivorous subjects recruited from the same region. The study found that this group of vegetarians (lacto-ovo) have a significantly higher amount of plasma carboxymethyllysine and advanced glycation endproducts (AGEs) compared to this group of omnivores.[78] Carboxymethyllysine is a glycation product which represents "a general marker of oxidative stress and long-term damage of proteins in aging, atherosclerosis and diabetes." "Advanced glycation end products (AGEs) may play an important adverse role in process of atherosclerosis, diabetes, aging and chronic renal failure." The researchers theorised that it may be the higher fructose intake of these particular vegetarians (from higher fruit and vegetable intake) that increased their AGEs levels.

Also, I don't really eat any supplements, just a balanced diet.

 

[bwana]

no offence to vegiterians, but wasn't Hitler one?

So was Ghandi.

 

[brixton tower]

I'm definitely cutting down on the red meat.

 

[eye_suc]

So was Ghandi.

yeah, but he also drank his urine, right? hmmm, zesty!

 

[Alan]

I see chicken as a veggie.

More meat the better.

So was Ghandi.

Who it seems was a racist.......

 

[w1z4rd]

I'll quote some wikipedia then, coz we know you don't have a problem with that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism



Also, I don't really eat any supplements, just a balanced diet.

So the healthiest people ate meat. Great. Thanks for the link I hadnt read that study they talk about so I will need to get more information, but its good to see that people who eat some form of meat are the most healthiest I wonder where vegans came on that list.

I also notice that study is Western.. antibiotics really help!

 

[BCO]

So the healthiest people ate meat. Great. Thanks for the link I hadnt read that study they talk about so I will need to get more information, but its good to see that people who eat some form of meat are the most healthiest I wonder where vegans came on that list.

Not how I understood it. To me it says that vegetarians and people with low meat high plant diets are generally longer lived. People who ate a lot of meat and vegans were less healthy.

At the very least, there was nothing in the article that indicates that vegetarians are liable to suffer from health/mortality issues when eating a balanced vegetarian diet.

So to claim that humans require meat is a fallacy.

Also look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarian_nutrition

 

[Peder]

Thank goodness i know where my meat comes from...

I cannot imagine living on plant matter all the time i'd die...

I don't think we were created to eat just plants... And if we were we were meant to be eating vine ripened plants not plants that go ripe in your home when they are away from the actual tree...

The idea of eating soy everyday will make me sicker than knowing what happens to animals...

 

[w1z4rd]

Not how I understood it. To me it says that vegetarians and people with low meat high plant diets are generally longer lived.

At the very least, there was nothing in the article that indicates that vegetarians are liable to suffer from health/mortality issues when eating a balanced vegetarian diet.

So to claim that humans require meat is a fallacy.

No its not . Not only do meats make you smarter but they aid in our evolution. The highest living people in that study showed that those that ate some kind of meat... ie fish.. did the best.

Meat is meat.. even if you wanna colorize it and make it seem less meat like. Want me to show you a study that shows that meat improves intelligence? Infact google this forum, we have discussed this before. A quick google brought up this result: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...oosting-key-compound-in-the-brain-535726.html

Its eating meat that helped us evolve into the higher primates we are today. If a portion of the population wishes to regress theyre welcome to. Its less competition for the rest of us in the long run.

The reason why WESTERN nations are able to survive better of meat than other places is because of the increase in medical technology. History showed us what happened when we couldnt run to the doctor for those antibiotics.

A balanced diet is the best.

There are thousands of reasons to eat each kinda food.. wether its to eat meat to give your baby better breast milk: http://www.breastfeeding123.com/eat...boosts-beneficial-fatty-acids-in-breast-milk/ (and not be like a vegan that kills their baby with Soya milk).. to eating veggies only because you have a funny and confused sense of morality .. oh and fibre

 

[BCO]

No its not . Not only do meats make you smarter but they aid in our evolution. The highest living people in that study showed that those that ate some kind of meat... ie fish.. did the best.

Meat is meat.. even if you wanna colorize it and make it seem less meat like. Want me to show you a study that shows that meat improves intelligence? Infact google this forum, we have discussed this before. A quick google brought up this result: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...oosting-key-compound-in-the-brain-535726.html

Its eating meat that helped us evolve into the higher primates we are today.

The reason why WESTERN nations are able to survive better of meat than other places is because of the increase in medical technology. History showed us what happened when we couldnt run to the doctor for those antibiotics.

A balanced diet is the best.

AFAIK all the studies in the Wiki article compared westerners with other westerners, so I'm not sure how medical technology affects the result.

My point is this:

Longevity studies have not been conclusive one way or another about whether a vegetarian diet is better or worse than a (low meat intake) omnivorous diet.

Vegetarian diets have some health advantages and meat diets have some health advantages. (Interestingly, creatine not only increases memory but also "exacerbates kidney problems and diabetes, and can lead to bad breath and flatulence"). So I don't believe that one is necessarily "better" than another (except ethically of course).

Having said that, I agree with you on the statement that "a balanced diet is best" if by "a balanced diet" you mean one that is low in meat intake. Modern westerners eat far too much meat, and it shows in terms of overall health and mortality rates.

 

[Peder]

AFAIK all the studies in the Wiki article compared westerners with other westerners, so I'm not sure how medical technology affects the result.

My point is this:

Longevity studies have not been conclusive one way or another about whether a vegetarian diet is better or worse than a (low meat intake) omnivorous diet.

Vegetarian diets have some health advantages and meat diets have some health advantages. (Interestingly, creatine not only increases memory but also "exacerbates kidney problems and diabetes, and can lead to bad breath and flatulence"). So I don't believe that one is necessarily "better" than another (except ethically of course).

Having said that, I agree with you on the statement that "a balanced diet is best" if by "a balanced diet" you mean one that is low in meat intake. Modern westerners eat far too much meat, and it shows in terms of overall health and mortality rates.

Quick Question?

Why do we have meat eating teeth if we are not to use them?

Most of the teeth in our mouths are to aid in helping to grind meat and not vegetables... Ever thought there might be a reason for it?

You also know that you can find farms who treat animals properly etc, you must just look...

 

[w1z4rd]

AFAIK all the studies in the Wiki article compared westerners with other westerners, so I'm not sure how medical technology affects the result.

My point is this:

Longevity studies have not been conclusive one way or another about whether a vegetarian diet is better or worse than a (low meat intake) omnivorous diet.

Vegetarian diets have some health advantages and meat diets have some health advantages. (Interestingly, creatine not only increases memory but also "exacerbates kidney problems and diabetes, and can lead to bad breath and flatulence"). So I don't believe that one is necessarily "better" than another (except ethically of course).

Having said that, I agree with you on the statement that "a balanced diet is best" if by "a balanced diet" you mean one that is low in meat intake. Modern westerners eat far too much meat, and it shows in terms of overall health and mortality rates.

About the morality of flatulence. Why do vegetarians have such a fascination with their poo`s and its color? I mean seriously... I really dont wanna know or look.

I know eating too much meat increases my chances or cancer, but Im willing to take that chance for the gains I get.

I should eat more balanced.. but I dont. I think meat becomes dangerous when you eat it over 10 times a week.. and right now I think im on like 7 times a week. Though Im not counting chicken as a meat (which would make it like 12)

If I die of cancer I deserve it. At least Ill go down knowing I did my bit to help save the rain forest by not eating so many plants (our almost defenseless oxygen producers). I tend to eat the predators of plants

 

[BCO]

Quick Question?

Why do we have meat eating teeth if we are not to use them?

Most of the teeth in our mouths are to aid in helping to grind meat and not vegetables... Ever thought there might be a reason for it?

You also know that you can find farms who treat animals properly etc, you must just look...

Not *most* of our teeth. A human's teeth are nothing like a dog's or a cat's. We have an omnivore's teeth. That being said I don't believe that there's a "reason" for any of a human's physically attributes (but hey, let's keep that to the PD section).

 

[Peder]

Not *most* of our teeth. A human's teeth are nothing like a dog's or a cat's. We have an omnivore's teeth. That being said I don't believe that there's a "reason" for any of a human's physically attributes (but hey, let's keep that to the PD section).

you evaded the question nice...

So you have no answer...

 

[LCBXX]

There's a pic of a billboard in the photos section advertising a steakhouse in the US:

"There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures....right next to the mash and roasted vegetables"

I eat meat and veggies. I don't have a chip on my shoulder about it like the majority of vegetarians. Eat your veggies...please. Just stop trying to convince the rest of us it's cruel because we don't share in your disgust of meat. You're starting to sound like ScienTo(m)logy Cruise.

 

[Tux]

The day you can braai a salad and it tastes the same as a steak is the day I become a vegetarian