Visiting a Homeopath

[DJ...]

Yes, I disagree with the concept of "like curing like" as a viable method for treatment (unless you're using it to refer to vaccines).

But you defend homeopathy at the drop of a hat?!

Homeopathy doesn't need your defense. It deserves derision.

The fact that it is becoming more popular (because of its wider reach in today's world, not because its efficacy has risen, mind you) is more reason to take a stand against it. Scientifically it cannot work. Logically it makes no sense. When tested it shows no benefit better than placebo. It has been tested by millions of people around the world (drinking the sleep-inducing medicine) and found not tow work. It is dangerous in that many homeopaths suggest its use in favour of medical science.

What is there to defend? Yes, some people will rant on about how fantastic it is. These people have vested interests in it working and many do convince themselves of it. Happens with all pseudo-science. There are still people who believe in a flat-earth. There are still those who believe the earth is 6000 years old (millions of people, in fact). There are people who claim to survive on nothing but air - no food or water. There are people who use reiki treatment. There are people who think that clicking your neck once a week will cure arthritis.

Yes, there are nutjobs who will believe anything. Just because someone believes it doesn't mean it works. So if that's your only argument then I'm afraid you've got nothing to really discuss in this respect. Perhaps you can try to show how knocking water against a table gives it memory? Perhaps you can explain how/why water is the only substance with memory? Perhaps you can explain why milk (which is mostly water with suspended fat globules and protein) doesn't have memory? Perhaps you can explain why hydrogen and oxygen are not pollutants yet any other chemical or compound is?

Let's actually address the issues of homeopathy instead if simply stating "many people believe it and it is popular therefore there must be more to it than you understand"...

 

[Sherbang]

@DJ... I'm not defending homeopathy anywhere.
I have not claimed anywhere that homeopathy works or that I think it works.

I do however oppose people who argue against homeopathy without any understanding of what the claims of homeopathy are.
Like RiaX claiming that injecting someone with potassium will kill them therefore homeopathy is wrong.
I also don't like people attacking, deriding or treating with contempt, people who claim to have had success with homeopathy - they have their experience, you weren't there - yes, they probably misinterpreted what happened, failed to take into account certain factors, whatever - it's no reason to mock and insult them.
People who have faith in science like to believe we live in an objective, unchanging, hard reality out there that we can study and if subjective experience goes against the evidence of that reality then that experience is wrong, when in fact, experience is primary, everything else is derived from subjective experience. So, homeopathy doesn't work - the evidence is clear - yet, millions experience relief from using these treatments as shown by it's popularity, despite the evidence...

 

[HapticSimian]

joelus, you have in one fell swoop legitimised every kooky anecdote and nullified the value of all scientific knowledge. Impressive stuff, but excuse me if I don't agree with you.

 

[DJ...]

See, you start off saying that homeopathy doesn't work, but then end off stating that it does for some people. It is impossible to tell what exactly it is you're trying to say apart from that science doesn't work but subjective opinion does. You even state that the evidence is clear that it works.

Additionally, subjective experience does not trump scientific study in my opinion. How can it possibly? If I can show that something is demonstrably not true, how can someone's subjective experience to the contrary change this? As you pointed out, people are suckers for these things and apply a significant amount of confirmation bias in their rationale. This can in no way trump scientific inquiry that shows evidence to the contrary, explains why, and goes on to provide reproducible tests.

Millions of people CLAIM it works. Doesn't mean it works, nor does it mean that suddenly we need to begin studying this all over again. Millions of people claim that qi exists too and that you can be cured with crystals rubbed on certain parts of your body. People are loopy dipschits for the most part, and loopy dipschits are often gullible imbeciles, to boot. Thankfully we have a dedicated, inquisitive, global scientific community who are disparate enough in location, technique, objectives and opinion to not be controlled by any single body or multiple bodies, who take care of testing these claims on our behalf. Fortunately in real science, personal bias does not inhibit accurate outcomes, as results are not simply taken at face value, regardless of how many Swa posts you dislocate your neck agreeing to...

 

[porchrat]

I do however oppose people who argue against homeopathy without any understanding of what the claims of homeopathy are.
Like RiaX claiming that injecting someone with potassium will kill them therefore homeopathy is wrong.

You have missed the point of his analogy. He was talking of an instance of symptoms associated with hyperkalaemia. Homoeopathy's basic premise of "like vs. like" says you can treat that hyperkalaemia with an injection of potassium. Doing so however will more than likely kill that individual.

 

[RiaX]

why they no explain how water can remember aromatic rings and aliphatic compounds without a carbon .....

 

[Swa]

I never said his experiences didn't happen , it's that they can't be used as evidence that the stuff works. I painted 3 rocks purple and licked each one of them. The next day I woke up and my penis had grown 2 inches. This alone is not evidence that licking purple rocks enlarges penises as it is nothing but subjective and anecdotal evidence.

When millions of people do it and the same thing happens it's no longer subjective.

When it gets to the knitty gritty of actually validating homeopathic medicine through the proper means we are unable to do so.

Again look at that article.

You have missed the point of his analogy. He was talking of an instance of symptoms associated with hyperkalaemia. Homoeopathy's basic premise of "like vs. like" says you can treat that hyperkalaemia with an injection of potassium. Doing so however will more than likely kill that individual.

It doesn't say that.

 

[RiaX]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy

 

[porchrat]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy

"Homeopathy Listeni/ˌhoʊmiˈɒpəθi/ (also spelled homoeopathy or homœopathy; from the Greek hómoios- ὅμοιος- "like-" + páthos πάθος "suffering") is a system of alternative medicine originated in 1796 by Samuel Hahnemann, based on his doctrine of similia similibus curentur ("like cures like"), according to which a substance that causes the symptoms of a disease in healthy people will cure similar symptoms in sick people."

That says to me that if you have symptoms of hyperkalaemia (which you will present with if you are given potassium as a healthy person) then homoeopathy says we should treat those sorts of symptoms in sick people with more potassium. Pathetic. I would say it isn't just pathetic but is also dangerous but of course part of homoeopathy is diluting your solution into nothingness so it isn't dangerous, just anti-science nonsense.

Anyone who supports such an insane concept probably needs to have his/her brain lacquered.

 

[Swa]

"similia similibus curentur" actually translates more accurately into "similar cures similar" and not "like cures like". In either case though neither means "same cures same" as some people are running with here.

 

[RiaX]

No the simple fact is that homeopathy is nothing but "like cures like." Get that fact into your head. There's nothing saying it must be just water.

so full of s**t

Told you this idiot just argues for the sake of it. Ad hominem, then changes its story ... it has a formula for its madness

 

[Swa]

*sigh*

 

[guest2013-1]

Hopefully the USA will repeal DOMA! Cross your fingers guys...

 

[Zewp]

so full of s**t

Told you this idiot just argues for the sake of it. Ad hominem, then changes its story ... it has a formula for its madness

RiaX, just place him on ignore. It's surprisingly effective how fast his spam stops once you do. A troll is nothing without an audience.

 

[Arthur]

Homeopathy:

Take half an aspirin. Dissolve in Pacific Ocean. Stir thoroughly to ensure even concentration and distribution. Slurp a teaspoon full or 5ml (whichever is greater) of the mixture. Get better soon!

Seriously, you'll take in more aspirin this way than all the supposed curative or palliative chems in a homeopathic 'remedy'.

And seriously, the moon's not made of cheese, not even Wiltshire.

 

[Humberto]

1. To my knowledge, most homeopathy medicines come in pill form, not in liquid form.
2. Placebos aren't usually sugar water.

 

[DrJohnZoidberg]

1. To my knowledge, most homeopathy medicines come in pill form, not in liquid form.
2. Placebos aren't usually sugar water.

Yep, they are usually sugar pills with a drop of homeopathic medicine (i.e. water) that has been dropped on to it.

 

[HapticSimian]

Zoidberg, I feel I need to say I approve of your avatar.

As you were...

 

[DrJohnZoidberg]

Zoidberg, I feel I need to say I approve of your avatar.

As you were...

Hehe, thanks. I finally got around to getting it changed

Let me know anytime you need to make a confession, Zoidberg saves

 

[DJ...]

1. To my knowledge, most homeopathy medicines come in pill form, not in liquid form.
2. Placebos aren't usually sugar water.

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