Vodacom clarifies HSDPA contention ratios

“Practically they can expect speeds of only 18Kb/s! This clearly is not the case,” said Vodacom. “Vodacom does not agree with this method used to calculate contention ratios as it is based on fixed parameters and does not take real-world usage patterns into account.”

The cellular operators says that taking the available bandwidth and dividing it by the number of subscribers multiplied by the maximum throughput each subscriber requires, seems at face value to be correct but in reality does not reflect what happens in the 3G broadband space where the number of concurrent users, their access devices and their time spent on-line are very dynamic and can radically change from moment to moment.
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Yeah go vodacom ... tell us again why calls are constantly disconnected off your network.. tell us why you don't assign direct connections to the net - but instead use a badly maintained proxy that gets banned worldwide very frequently - tell us why we get "network busy" messages - tell us why we pay a fortune for calls and have to make the same call 5 times to try and communicate the message ( you drop connections to allow new calls to be made on your oversubscribed towers )


Improve your service and then go out and claim that you are being hard done by...

bloody bafoons
 
vodacom sucks. Seacom rules.

I'll (blindly) support anyone who can give me 50GB for R 300 :)
 
A contention ratio is a contention ratio. Vodacom can bleat all they like. They can't deny SEACOMs estimate. If all vodacom clients downloaded 24/7 then 18kbps would be an optimistic speed. Just because they don't (and could possibly afford to) doesn't change the contention ratio.
 
Gatecrasher said:
A contention ratio is a contention ratio. Vodacom can bleat all they like. They can't deny SEACOMs estimate. If all vodacom clients downloaded 24/7 then 18kbps would be an optimistic speed. Just because they don't (and could possibly afford to) doesn't change the contention ratio.
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You read my thoughts :)
 
So using the vodacom logic the N1 highway is not oversubscribed. If everybody in the country tried to use the highway at the same time it would be, but given that the average person only uses the highway twice a day and the highway has 2 lanes that means that there is a 2:2 contention ratio on the highway? Right vodacom?

Oh, I presume I cannot apply my crazy logic to your crazy logic.

Now vodacom, here is what Seacom is trying to say: ISPs cannot afford to cater for 1:1 contention ratios. It is WAY to expensive.

IF EVERYBODY ON YOUR NETWORK DID FOR SOME REASON DECIDE TO USE THE NETWORK AT EXACTLY THE SAME TIME what would your contention ratio be? 1:1? Bull. Your contention ratio could be as bad as 100:1.

Now given that Seacom will be cheaper than telscum vodacom can perhaps afford to buy more bandwidth from them. Now if it so happens that everybody then decided to use their connection at the same time your contention ratio could be better, like say 50:1.

What is Seacom really trying to say? That vodacom has crap contention ratios? No! Seacom is trying to say that with more options vodacom can double their capacity and offer a better experience to their clients.
 
I note Vodacom did not argue the contention ratio of 100:1 just the methodology used to calculate it...
 
Tommygun said:
I note Vodacom did not argue the contention ratio of 100:1 just the methodology used to calculate it...
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Couldn't agree more
Seems to me that they're saying roughly the same thing, just in a round about creative sort of way.:rolleyes:

typical ISP
 
Contention ratio is a well used and understood term in global networking circles. If every provider used their own convoluted interpretation, it would be rendered useless to anyone but marketeers (this article a fine example).

Tip to Vodacom, find/make up some other term to describe what you're trying to convey e.g. Performance Probability Ratio (PPR).
 
Roman4604 said:
Contention ratio is a well used and understood term in global networking circles. If every provider used their own convoluted interpretation, it would be rendered useless to anyone but marketeers (this article a fine example).

Tip to Vodacom, find/make up some other term to describe what you're trying to convey e.g. Performance Probability Ratio (PPR).
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Valid point, but I see it very simplistically though I take your point on the terminology. (I do like your PPR suggestion!)

A users sits at his PC and downloads a file. If he gets the file at the theoretical wire speed, he does not care if a million other users are on the network, he got it at the best possible speed and therefore did not 'contend' with anyone. He sees a 1:1 "contention ratio". If he got half speed, it's "2:1", etc. Again, from his perspective.

When a layman (including many journalists) sees a number like 100:1, that's exactly what they think; "I'm competing with 100 other guys for the same bandwidth".

Knowing some of the mathematics some of these 'industry experts' use, they'll easily make the leap to 100:1 on HSDPA 1.8, = 18Kb/s. :rolleyes:

One of our favourite 'industry analysts' keeps on quoting WiMAX as 70Mb/s at 70Km. A clear case how they don't quite understand the numbers yet merrily quote them.
 
who.is.michael said:
What a load of bull from Vodacom - who do they think they are fooling?
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Won't you (and the others who made similar comments) explain exactly why you think this is bull? I really would like to know. I assume you did not make a knee-jerk comment?

If you're on a 3G service (say 384/64) and you practically get 365/57, what is YOUR contention ratio?
 
Roman4604 said:
V3G, no one is deny what your saying, but what's p1ssing ppl off is that VC is trying to alter/corrupt the meaning of a term that widely accepted & understood in the industry for its own ends ....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contention_ratio

which refers to OFCOM's definition.
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No-one is trying to alter the definition of the term. That's why I'm comfortable with your alternate definition or terminology.

What we're trying to counter is that the perception could be created that a typical Vodacom data user is getting 1/100th of his theoretical service (which according to ASASA, we're not even allowed to state!)

You're in the business so you understand and can explain the terminology. But in a presentation to the press, and in the communities who read the stuff the press wrote, you have people with just an elementary grasp of the concept and they will (and do) apply the 1:100 contention ratio = 1/100th of service. Trust me, I get these queries daily.

This does open up a new discussion though. If the traditional contention ratio is a valid measurement but does not directly correlate to end-user experience (your PPR), should there not be a better way of measuring and comparing services?

I've noticed rpm have used a % of theoretical max. in the past, but measured from an end-user perspective, so it's pretty close to your PPR.

Or do you measure your actual contention ratio (but on which link? radio, local, international?) and if it is, say 50:1 and your PPR is 1:1, you then state 50:1 is the actual target? Would that work?

Thinking about it some more, I believe it won't as 3G-R99 users will fly at 50:1 (if that is the number) but HSDPA 7.2 users would be crawling. So we're going to have to use different 'bands of acceptable contention ratios' per service class.

PPR however, normalises this and is a direct measurement of service received.
 
vodacom3g said:
What we're trying to counter is that the perception could be created that a typical Vodacom data user is getting 1/100th of his theoretical service
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I understand, but this becomes a double edged sword when you start veering from accepted definition.

For instance one could presume that your HSDPA service is 20 times faster/better than Telkom's ADSL, as they only claim 20:1. Likewise a not so clued up IT manager may think, heck why am I paying 10s of thousands for this 1:1 leased line when I could just replace it with a more cost effective 1:1 HSDPA connection.

We both know in both cases they will be mighty disappointed.
 
if 100 would dl at the same time it would be 100 wouldn't it? but bandwidth costing so much people wouldn't
 
Vodacom3G, If (and I know this is a very big if as it does not ever happen) a lot of vodacom ppl were to use their internet at the same time (like lets say after 8 at night) what would my contention ratio be? 1:1?

Then why at night (after 8 when this mythical even never happens) does my latency and packet drop in Guild Wars become so high? Could it be that my 1:1 ratio is not feeling so 1:1?

Could you please ask your marketing department to hook me up with their version of this 1:1 connection please? Playing Guild Wars at night is not feeling like 1:1 to me :)
 
Pilgrim said:
Vodacom3G, If (and I know this is a very big if as it does not ever happen) a lot of vodacom ppl were to use their internet at the same time (like lets say after 8 at night) what would my contention ratio be? 1:1?

Then why at night (after 8 when this mythical even never happens) does my latency and packet drop in Guild Wars become so high? Could it be that my 1:1 ratio is not feeling so 1:1?

Could you please ask your marketing department to hook me up with their version of this 1:1 connection please? Playing Guild Wars at night is not feeling like 1:1 to me :)
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I think you know the answer :) : if concurrent usage goes up, so does the PPR, (the traditional 'contention ratio' stays the same as per roman's post.)

We monitor the performance of the network (which is directly related to PPR) and upgrade where ever needed.

What will help is that you do a speed test at the time of your bad experience and send that to us or me. Do a test to speed.vodacom.co.za and one to speedtest.net, picking a server closest to where the server is hosted. Also the latency reported in your game at that time.

We've been trying to find the cause of the gaming latencies for a while now and about 2 weeks ago you should have seen a substantial improvement.
 
vodacom3g said:
I think you know the answer :) : if concurrent usage goes up, so does the PPR, (the traditional 'contention ratio' stays the same as per roman's post.)

We monitor the performance of the network (which is directly related to PPR) and upgrade where ever needed.

What will help is that you do a speed test at the time of your bad experience and send that to us or me. Do a test to speed.vodacom.co.za and one to speedtest.net, picking a server closest to where the server is hosted. Also the latency reported in your game at that time.

We've been trying to find the cause of the gaming latencies for a while now and about 2 weeks ago you should have seen a substantial improvement.
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I will admit the latencies are a lot better. BUT there are still some times when the connection will just die for up to 30 seconds then resume as if nothing happened. The problem is that that 30 second pause is enough for my party to die and game over. I have to restart a mission that can take up to an hour and one little latency spike at the wrong moment and boom! :D

I will do a speed test next time the latency acts up and send you the results.
 
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