Vodacom Please Call Me - The truth

[Peter_123]

You have set an amazing record. You discredited yourself in your first post. Truth? We actually know what prior art is. It has nothing to do with the amount of melanin as you end off claiming in your bolded part.

I suggest you go read up on Areva Martin before playing with the R-card again. If you actually want the truth? We are predominantly a tech crowd, quite curious and prone to actually digging into things.

I bid you a good day and weekend.

Is that the best argument you have? Seriously? C'mon!

 

[rwenzori]

Is that the best argument you have? Really? Just blah blah blah. You are clearly an empty headed tabula rasa. What a waste of space! You are beneath me.

Golly gosh! Forum noobs trying to be rude. Run along now, my child - you're still at amateur level.

PS. No wurry if I am beneath you. Or on top of you. Just keep your dick to yourself.

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

Is that the best argument you have? Seriously? C'mon!

You immediately you lost all credibility when you came here flaming, looking for an argument. As for seriously:

 

[Swa]

They’ve already agreed to compensate him. He is turning his nose up.

We don't know how much. Would it also be fair if Vodacom offered 1c? He has numerous legal costs which must be paid. This reminds me of the old saying that only the lawyers win in the end. The guy should be paid a reasonable amount based on what the profit was.

I don't think the article is biased .. the guy claims he invented the service which complete BS and he keeps referring to it as such because he knows the public would react differently knowing that it was merely implementing and he didn't implement either.

The entire case hinges on the compensation allegedly offered.. but again.. MTN at any stage can weigh and claim for patent infringement for the duration too.. i reckon if there is a huge settlement, MTN will likely take up a case of patent infringement. There is no such a thing as free lunch when u copy it.

He didn't claim to invent it. He came up with the idea of the specific implementation. That is correct. MTN also can't claim anything as their implementation was an entirely different mechanism and Vodacom vastly expanded on the concept. Still they are not the original inventor as "please call me back"s existed in one form or another for decades.

all these single digit new posters in this thread seems to me it is one person trying to create an impression of "multiple supporters" for Makate

He does actually have multiple supporters.

 

[JustAsk]

all these single digit new posters in this thread seems to me it is one person trying to create an impression of "multiple supporters" for Makate

And just one post later, a single digit poster proves you wrong...lol

He is entitled to absolute zip, firstly he was gainfully employed by Vodacom at the time, and secondly MTN had offered the service to customers way before, and finally the cabinet ministers really show their ignorance with silly remarks.

 

[Gordon_R]

We don't know how much. Would it also be fair if Vodacom offered 1c? He has numerous legal costs which must be paid. This reminds me of the old saying that only the lawyers win in the end. The guy should be paid a reasonable amount based on what the profit was.

Vodacom have been ordered to pay his legal costs, but there are probably other lawyers who want a piece of the settlement money:

Vodacom is ordered to pay the applicant’s costs in this Court and in the Supreme Court of Appeal, which
include costs of two counsel, where applicable.

Its impossible to determine a reasonable amount, when the two parties are so far apart...

 

[Swa]

We already know he turned his nose up to R10 million.

We don't actually know anything. I can't find a reference for the R10m as neither party has disclosed any amount. It seems to originate from a Sunday Times article where they themselves call it a "pittance". So what constitutes a fair amount with the knowledge we have now? He has numerous legal costs just to get to this point of Vodacom paying anything. How does someone justify a comment like "he should get a month's salary"? What if you had an idea of yours stolen by a company that made billions from it?

Vodacom have been ordered to pay his legal costs, but there are probably other lawyers who want a piece of the settlement money:

There were investors who should be paid as well but court costs only include direct legal cost.

Its impossible to determine a reasonable amount, when the two parties are so far apart...

It's possible if you can calculate the profit.

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

Vodacom have been ordered to pay his legal costs, but there are probably other lawyers who want a piece of the settlement money:

Its impossible to determine a reasonable amount, when the two parties are so far apart...

However at the end of the day, the court said:

Vodacom is ordered to pay the costs of the action, including the costs of two counsel, if applicable, and the costs of the expert, Mr Zatkovich.”

Anything outside that is for the cost of the complainant.

However, here we have a trainee accountant who adapted prior art to get something for free, i.e.: an accounting issue. He was promised a reward and did not get it. There are no patents, stolen ideas issues here. He was being creative with something in the job spec. The reward not being paid he was promised was shitty on Vodacom's behalf. Further Alan Craig-Knott then trying to steal credit for the idea did not help either and became part of the court record.

As such a fair amount is due - it just depends on what is fair? The court anticipated this:

In the event of the parties failing to agree on the reasonable compensation, the matter must be submitted to Vodacom’s Chief Executive Officer for determination of the amount within a reasonable time.

Though we don't know what he was offered, if he was offered R10miliion, he is a lucky guy. Grab it and run. However I think he traded in the anticipated payout and now he'll end up with something not to his satisfaction.

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

What if you had an idea of yours stolen by a company that made billions from it?

This is why I have sympathy with the dude. Tbh, I had ideas stolen from me. The first time in '81 in a company program where they'd pay part of the savings. A manager stole my idea. I was still green. Similar things were promised to me over my career, some I did not get initially and resulting in fights. I won mostly.

However I gave up on the corporate world when the upstream US company promised financial recognition and exclusivity on revenue generating ideas from the resellers (one at which I worked), our company in turn offering us incentives. Using TCO models, trends in IT vs the realities of South Africa, I came up with a model not only saving the clients on maintenance and license fees, but essentially getting a tech refresh for free. We're talking about systems easily exceed a few million (mainframe class). Our sales people loved it. However soon after, a near hysterical sales person threw the competition's newest pamphlet on my desk. They we marketing my frigging program! A call to the OEM channel manager saw a lot of BS diversion and excuses, reneging on promises. It did not help that I also had some issues with HR due to my FD being an a-hole on promises. That's the day I left the corporate world. Over the next few years the OEM whinged like a baby where a new partner and I showed clients how to save money. Karma also bit the OEM, they were bought out and they're a shadow of a shadow of what they were.

So yes, I get Makate's problem. But he should've also not dug himself into a hole, which I expect is what he did. There will always be people cheering you on to take legal steps and run up a legal bill ... as long as they aren't footing the bill or getting paid for it.

 

[Ubuntu_Babe]

Vodacom Please Call Me - The truth

Vodacom’s legal battle with Kenneth Makate over compensation for his Please Call Me idea made headlines this month after Vodacom said it will pay him “reasonable compensation”.

Vodacom said, as per a Constitutional Court order, its CEO has determined the amount of reasonable compensation payable to Makate and now considers the matter as settled and closed.

Jamie, I'm curious if you are writing this
Vodacom Please Call Me – The truth
as an opinion piece or with some 'guidance' from Byron Kennedy, who I would suspect to have coerced his Facebook BFF Loni Prinsloo of Bloomberg to write and release a one-sided 'fake news' settlement piece that she released to Moneyweb on 11th January and then redrafted it for TimesLive later on, without confirming with Makate if this was indeed true. To date she hasn't written a follow up article to impartially set the record straight from Makete's perspective.

A cracking story would be to investigate why the EFF are deafeningly silent since the settlement announcement was made. Would it be plausible to speculate that Shameel the Vodacom CEO 'cut a deal' with Julius and Floyd when they met in December 2018, where he might have asked them to 'turn a blind eye' to the announcement, in return for some favours down the line? After all it is election season and campaigns are expensive....

After seeing the damage that the EFF boys did to some Vodacom retail outlets a few months earlier, Shameel would be well aware of the havoc that Julius could wreak on their business if he 'called for action' from his followers. They could do serious damage to Vodacom and their business. The question is why is Julius missing out on a golden opportunity for publicity, yet there is not a peep out of him or his cohorts.

(Might be a good idea to make a few calls to Julius and Co Jamie, just to find out why they are SOOOO quiet on this one.....)

The EFF must have got a really serious inducement to keep quiet, which gave Shameel and Byron Kennedy the the assurances that they needed to go ahead and unilaterally make Makete an insulting settlement, knowing full well no harm would come of it. Coincidence or verrrrry suspicious? Join the dots......

Why doesn't Ari Kahn (Byron Kennedy perhaps?) not sue the pants off Vodacom for plagerising his 'patented' PCM idea, which generated Billions of dollars in revenue for Vodacom, or even better get MTN to sue them, who would have the very deep pockets necessary to pay legal costs for the case. After all, there's huge money at stake here.

Have a look at the many other MyBroadband articles that were written about this case over the years, so that some of the trolls get a clearer picture of what actually happened instead of making stuff up.

More popcorn please......

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

 

[jannievanzyl]

Jamie, I'm curious if you are writing this
Vodacom Please Call Me – The truth
as an opinion piece or with some 'guidance' from Byron Kennedy, who I would suspect to have coerced his Facebook BFF Loni Prinsloo of Bloomberg to write and release a one-sided 'fake news' settlement piece .........

A cracking story would be to investigate why the EFF are deafeningly silent since the settlement announcement was made. Would it be plausible to speculate that Shameel the Vodacom CEO 'cut a deal' with Julius and Floyd when they met in December 2018, where he might have asked them to 'turn a blind eye' to the announcement........



Why doesn't Ari Kahn (Byron Kennedy perhaps?) not sue the pants off Vodacom for plagerising his 'patented' PCM idea.........

The conspiracy infection runs deep in this one...

As I said to everyone else here; read the concourt ruling yourself and you'll be better informed.

But, I suspect, actual reading does not sit high on your list of priorities. It has a nasty habit of killing off those conspiracy theories.

Let us know once you've spoken to Julius.

 

[Ubuntu_Babe]

It doesn't matter, two-post wonder. Vodacom CEO has complied with the ruling, and Makate gets whatever said CEO determined. It is overs cadovers. Personally I think he deserves f-all, the little gold-digger, but no doubt he will be getting something more.

As an 'honorary member' you should be ashamed of yourself. It's obvious you are not familiar with the case and what the judgement was, that Vodacom had to comply with. By offering Makate anything, they were admitting that he was the originator of the idea that made them $Billions to this day.

The reality was back in the day is that neither Vodacom or Makate knew exactly how successful his idea would turn out to be, when he 'pitched' it to Philip Gleisser, on a gentleman's agreement that he would get a share of any revenues if it was a success, which he mooted would be 15%.

The modification required, was to add an extra option to the menu to allow someone with no airtime to send a message (later with adverts) to another Vodacom subscriber to call them back. While there was no charge for the PCM, it was the catalyst to generate huge recurring advertising revenues for Vodacom, and call back revenues from the person with airtime.

The day that the PCM product was launched it was a massive success, as over 130,000 South African's used it. The figures for the rest of the week are unknown, but clearly this was going to be a really big money-spinner for Vodacom. Alan Knott-Craig and Philip Gleisser had a huge dilemma on their hands. "What will we do about Makate and his idea? If we give him anything, he'll be looking for 15%.......We need to stall him, and in some way kick the can down the road with him...."

And that's what they did.

Dishonest Knott-Craig cultivated a false narrative in his biography that he had a 'Eureka-moment' after seeing two security guards in his office car park, and immediately got the IT guys to put the idea into production (which didn't take very long at all!) When the case went to court and the media started asking who came up with the idea, he got Gleisser to send him an e-mail confirming the falsehood in his book.

Every day that went by the PCM idea generated even more revenue for Vodacom (and by now their parent company Vodafone, who started rolling it out to many other territories.) A K-C decided not to engage with Makate anymore and he referred it to Vodacom's lawyers, who basically told Makate to 'take a hike fella....'

Makate lost his first case based around the Apartheid-era law on prescription, which said that 3 years or more had passed since his original agreement with Gleisser in 2000. (What an kaak law, which helps the scoundrels who owe money and then use this law to get off the hook!) He went to the Supreme Court to fight his case and he lost there as well.

All the while his legal costs were mounting. Because of the huge financial stakes in this matter he had to rely on a legal team to fight the case through the courts on a contingency basis. Christian Shoemann was involved with this, but he jumped ship after Makate lost in the Supreme Court. As far as he was concerned, no point in putting good money after bad.

All was lost.......except in Makate's mind. Justice needed to prevail in this case, no matter what it took. Many of our fellow South African's had the same mindset when fighting against Apartheid, and made huge sacrifices doing so until they prevailed to crush an unjust and disgusting regime. (Note the similarities with this case in microcosm?)

When Makate won his case in the Constitutional Court, the unanimous judgement against Vodacom and A K-C was damning. They had tried every dirty trick in the book to deny Makate his due, on an idea that made them $Billions, while he hadn't even received 1 cent. The more money they made the less inclined they were to pay him what was due to him......

Vodacom decided not to call Philip Gleisser to testify in court as to what he had agreed with Makate for his PCM idea. They were too scared that he would 'let the cat out of the bag', which would seriously damage their case. Too risky........... A K-C was savaged in the witness box and was shown to have been a liar, who did everything in his power to prevent Makate being rewarded for his idea, which was running into $Billions at this stage. The Con Court took a very dim view of this and made a judgement in Makate's favour.

They didn't make an order of compensation, leaving it to the parties to try and come to a reasonable negotiated settlement, failing which the Vodacom CEO would act as a 'deadlock breaker', where he would come to a settlement figure after hearing arguments from both parties. The Con Court had no option but to structure the process that way, as Makate had requested in a much earlier court case that the new Vodacom CEO makes a determination, after Alan Knott- Craig had left the company.

Little did he know that he was literally asking for 'the fox to handle security at the henhouse'. Vodacom released their settlement announcement 'written' by his BFF Facebook pal Loni Pretorius, a Bloomberg journalist, who wrote the 'fake-news' piece for him.

Meanwhile Shameel (the Vodacom CEO) met up with Julius Malema and the EFF in December 2018 to apologise profusely for upsetting them for awarding a journalist for writing bad stuff about Julius. He could see how the EFF trashed a few Vodacom outlets quick-quick to show their displeasure, a few months before and didn't want any nasty surprises in future if anything else came up that displeased them.......

They released a joint statement saying that they won't be naughty boys again. As it's election year in 2019 (which are expensive) who knows when a friendly PCM might be required......(wink, wink!)

Julius Malema and the EFF are deafeningly quiet about a fellow African child is being rodded by Vodacom. What a golden opportunity for them and the big-mouthed BFF to get some headlines with an opportunity like this. In the world of high stakes money talks.

Makate is a very courageous man, who has the conviction to see that justice will prevail no matter what it takes. Trolls like AriKahn (Byron Kennedy?) are just there to cynically try and muddy the waters. Remember that Vodacom have deep pockets and they will stop at nothing to move the dial in their favour, wherever they can.

If the public got as upset with Vodacom as they did after the outrage with Momentum, Vodacom will be quickly brought to their senses when it starts hurting them in the pocket.

This movie is not over yet, so give me another box of popcorn.....

 

[Ockie]

Jamie, I'm curious if you are writing this
Vodacom Please Call Me – The truth
as an

OK ..... never has a name caused so much confusion in me. I was like ......"Is that "Ja?ie with a "m" for mother ... or is that a double N as in N for Nellie? Is she addressing Jamie the guy that wrote the mybb article or Jannie from Vodacom, trying to get a rise out of him??? Either I need to get my prescription lenses updated or my laptop screen resolution just aint cutting it no more. Soooo confused.......or is it just me? Just me? kay then.

 

[Ubuntu_Babe]

The conspiracy infection runs deep in this one...

As I said to everyone else here; read the concourt ruling yourself and you'll be better informed.

But, I suspect, actual reading does not sit high on your list of priorities. It has a nasty habit of killing off those conspiracy theories.

Let us know once you've spoken to Julius.

I suspect you should do a little reading and research on what's going on for yourself Jannie, like I have.

You must admit that Julius and the EFF and the BFF are rather quiet though about this case, after that rovelling meeting that Shameel had with them in December.....Very curious indeed. Join the dots between Loni Prinsloo of Bloomberg, who released the initial article about the Vodacom 'settlement' and her BFF Facebook buddy Byron Kennedy, the media-savvy spokesperson (and ex-director of Moneyweb, where the fake-news 'story was initially released.

Even Inspector Clouseau (or maybe you Jannie) would be able to join the dots on this one.......Here's a few clues to get you started. Conspiracy theories...pah!

 

[Ubuntu_Babe]

OK ..... never has a name caused so much confusion in me. I was like ......"Is that "Ja?ie with a "m" for mother ... or is that a double N as in N for Nellie? Is she addressing Jamie the guy that wrote the mybb article or Jannie from Vodacom, trying to get a rise out of him??? Either I need to get my prescription lenses updated or my laptop screen resolution just aint cutting it no more. Soooo confused.......or is it just me? Just me? kay then.

It's probably just you Ockie........

 

[Ubuntu_Babe]

You have set an amazing record. You discredited yourself in your first post. Truth? We actually know what prior art is. It has nothing to do with the amount of melanin as you end off claiming in your bolded part.

I suggest you go read up on Areva Martin before playing with the R-card again. If you actually want the truth? We are predominantly a tech crowd, quite curious and prone to actually digging into things.

I bid you a good day and weekend.

Solly, as a 'techie' please read my posts below and start digging.......

You will definitely unearth some dirt on Byron Kennedy and Loni Prinsloo from Bloomberg on that 'settlement' article that she 'wrote' for Vodacom on 11th January. (wink, wink!). That meeting that Shameel had with Julius and Floyd in December is also worth digging into as well.

Please let us know what you uncover......

 

[Ubuntu_Babe]

Makate deserves absolutely zero cash.. he invented nothing.

(although this is not new information)

....however Toxic, he did have an idea that he 'pitched' to Vodacom over 18 year ago, which they ran with and made $Billions out of it while he hasn't received one cent from his idea to date.....thieving b@stards!!!!!

 

[Ubuntu_Babe]

As I said on previous posts Makate was not the inventor and deserves NOTHING.

It was an idea not an invention.....(WhatsApp or Facebook weren't inventions, they were ideas that were implemented better than other deployments of existing technology.)

 

[Ubuntu_Babe]

Golly gosh! Forum noobs trying to be rude. Run along now, my child - you're still at amateur level.

PS. No wurry if I am beneath you. Or on top of you. Just keep your dick to yourself.

A very juvenile (probably inadequate 'in the pants') response Sir and not worthy of cerebral debate....You haven't set the bar very high for us 'noobs' I'm afraid. Oh dear.

Please use your spell check for errors on your next post.