VODACOM shares

stoke said:
Well, actually, constitutionally you can still argue that the "blacks only" thing is a contradiction of your basic right to earn a living, so .. it will make for an extremely interesting court case before you get to the prison stage.
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How does the share offer restrict Debbie from making a living?:confused:

@ Debbie
Good luck with your project. Maybe we can have MyBB meet days to visit you in jail? :)
 
Can someone please enlighten me on the criteria used by the government of the Republic of South Africa to determine a person's "race"?
 
Debbie2 said:
Can someone please enlighten me on the criteria used by the government of the Republic of South Africa to determine a person's "race"?
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Id number
Birth Certificate
Employment records
Marrital Records
 
blunomore said:
Seriously, a test case in the courts may bring surprisingly results. You just need a sponsor to carry the legal costs.
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Not to discourage you or anything, but I'm sure that if there was a lophole in the BBEE systems (policies) maybe some wealthy and agrieved white people would have approched the courts loing time ago. But hey, dont be discouraged to utilise your constitutional rights.
 
JK8 said:

Id number
Birth Certificate
Employment records
Marrital Records
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And yet, none of these state my race. Except maybe my birth certificate.... in which case they would be relying on apartheid-era definitions and presumably apartheid-era "tests"....HOLA! bring out the pencil!!
 
Maelly said:
Not to discourage you or anything, but I'm sure that if there was a lophole in the BBEE systems (policies) maybe some wealthy and agrieved white people would have approched the courts loing time ago. But hey, dont be discouraged to utilise your constitutional rights.
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I myself am not particularly interested, but I did point Debbie to Mamphele Ramphela who came out in defense of white women. People forget this country was ruled by white males and even white women were disadvantaged in certain aspects. Not all, but certain ...
 
So who exactly can take part in YeboYethu?


  • Black people (African, Coloured, Indian, Chinese) who are natural persona and citizens of South Africa through birth, descent or naturalisation occurring before 27 April 1994. If you are a minor, you must be assisted by your parent or legal guardian.
    Black Groups (black companies and black entities, including stokvels) incorporated or formed in South Africa.
    Black business partners who have been invited to participate.

  • What may disqualify me?
    If you are not a black person as described in the prospectus.
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Being from Africa and having never resided outside of the continent, I am African. Therefore I am a black person as described in the prospectus.
 
Debbie2 said:
Can someone please enlighten me on the criteria used by the government of the Republic of South Africa to determine a person's "race"?
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Penis length tests and balancing 5kg maize meal on your head?

Whilst I dont know the exact definition, they do have people classed on their internal systems based on your ID number alone. How they came to these conclusions can only be your birth certificate IMO, in which I still dont believe you have a case. The apartheid classifications were correct, they had to be.
 
blunomore said:
Why don't you contact the guys at Vodacom and ask?
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Ask what? For a (government-approved) definition of the racial categories "black"; "coloured"; "white"; "Indian" etc...?

As I'm sure you can surmise, the problem lies with government's ambiguity and lack of definitions; and the inability to construct sound definitions without sounding like an apartheid state. Oh wait.
 
DJK said:
Penis length tests and balancing 5kg maize meal on your head?

Whilst I dont know the exact definition, they do have people classed on their internal systems based on your ID number alone. How they came to these conclusions can only be your birth certificate IMO, in which I still dont believe you have a case. The apartheid classifications were correct, they had to be.
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No, they were wrong many times - people were misclassified (not that classification ought to have ever taken place, but that is a different story) as belonging to e.g. another race as the rest of their family, which caused a lot of problems and trauma for people.
 
Debbie2 said:
Ask what? For a (government-approved) definition of the racial categories "black"; "coloured"; "white"; "Indian" etc...?

As I'm sure you can surmise, the problem lies with government's ambiguity and lack of definitions; and the inability to construct sound definitions without sounding like an apartheid state. Oh wait.
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You're shooting the messenger, relax, have another coffee.

Ask VODACOM how they interpret BLACK for their BEE shares purposes.
 
DJK said:
The apartheid classifications were correct, they had to be.
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Apartheid classifications were anything but "correct"!! [Sticking a pencil in one's hair to determine "race"....mmmm, yes, scientifically valid.]

In fact, it is precisely what the ANC fought against- the arbitrary classification of people on the basis of a social construction ("race").

[Ever see apartheid-era newspaper articles that went something like this:
"Yesterday the Johannesburg High Court declared four former Black teenagers to be White Persons; three former Coloured Persons to be Indian; and one formerly Coloured Person to be Black."]
 
blunomore said:
You're shooting the messenger, relax, have another coffee.

Ask VODACOM how they interpret BLACK for their BEE shares purposes.
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Sorry if I'm coming across as "shooting the messenger"... you are misreading me.

I will ask Vodacom.... but they will no doubt defer to the government of SA.
 
JK8 said:
Now you know how we felt................
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Yup. Indeed. Indeed I feel what it is like to be disenfranchised.

I also understand why there was a need for an armed struggle. But let us first fight with passive resistance.

Two wrongs JK8.... (complete the sentence on your own).
 
Well in that case, they havent re-classified since then have they? What data would they have used to determine race? It is centrally stored on home-affairs IIRC. It may be a contribution from various sources who ask for this info, such as banks, credit reports, driver's licence application (I think) etc.

But all you might land up doing is further tightening the classification, not opening it up. There is no way they could/would open up the BEE criteria to any whites IMO. You would be fighting an admirable, but pointless cause. One which I doubt would find much financial backing...
 
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