We are captured by deindustrialisation

[rpm]

We are captured by deindustrialisation

Over the past two months we have seen two major conferences where manufacturing, job losses and the shortage of skills in all sectors of the economy have been debated. But if we break it down, the one thing impacting most on South Africa’s economy is deindustrialisation.

 

[infscrtyrisk]

Interesting article.

Industry blames inadequate skills development on tertiary education institutions, but in turn they complain that industry is not playing its part sufficiently.

What exactly does the education sector want from Industry, in order for it to "play its part"?

 

[cn@]

Interesting article.



What exactly does the education sector want from Industry, in order for it to "play its part"?

Investment in schools. The old way of teaching theory in schools and hoping young people will acquire the practical skills only after school won't work in the future. As technology advances, so does the learning period to learn to use the new tech. The same goes for tertiary academic studies. Years ago a degree was fine for you to get a good job. These days you need a masters, and if not, you have to distinguish and differentiate yourself with both superior ambition and creativity.

Call it academic and skills inflation.

 

[supersunbird]

Investment in schools. The old way of teaching theory in schools and hoping young people will acquire the practical skills only after school won't work in the future. As technology advances, so does the learning period to learn to use the new tech. The same goes for tertiary academic studies. Years ago a degree was fine for you to get a good job. These days you need a masters, and if not, you have to distinguish and differentiate yourself with both superior ambition and creativity.

Call it academic and skills inflation.

Caused by big population increase.

 

[Vrotappel]

Many reasons are given for our deindustrialisation but the two most obvious ones are the lack of policy and regulatory uncertainty; and asymmetrical compliance with the World Trade Organisation rules. These are not too difficult to overcome, but it is in government’s hands to agree on economic policies that create certainty for investment in the manufacturing industry, and labour policies that will provide incentives for both employers and employees. Compared to many industrialised nations, our productivity level is not commensurate with the continual demand for higher wages. If government would become responsible and stop endless talk of radical transformation of this and of that, and start walking the talk, there would be no need for mass action, marches and strikes. It seems that action is taken when things get destroyed.

Clever money ain't coming here.

 

[supersunbird]

We blame government for many of our ills, and government deserves to be called to order; but are we, the people of South Africa, playing our part? Industry blames inadequate skills development on tertiary education institutions, but in turn they complain that industry is not playing its part sufficiently.

In my humble opinion, it is time that we stop talking past each other and focus on getting the economy on track. We must walk the talk and stop waiting for the next person to make a positive move.

All fine and dandy, except government is working in the opposite direction against you (and also not offering security and safety, what factory are you gonna run if you're dead?).

 

[infscrtyrisk]

Investment in schools. The old way of teaching theory in schools and hoping young people will acquire the practical skills only after school won't work in the future. As technology advances, so does the learning period to learn to use the new tech. The same goes for tertiary academic studies. Years ago a degree was fine for you to get a good job. These days you need a masters, and if not, you have to distinguish and differentiate yourself with both superior ambition and creativity.

Call it academic and skills inflation.

You are probably right, I also thought that it might be that. The problem is that Industry does not have any say about the curriculum, the government gets to decide what subjects are taught, which of them are compulsory, and which are dumbed down or de-colonialised. For example, it doesn't make sense for a global drug manufacturer to fund studies into witchcraft.

 

[Garson007]

What exactly does the education sector want from Industry, in order for it to "play its part"?

Apprenticeships.

 

[infscrtyrisk]

Apprenticeships.

Ah! The opportunity to unlearn the garbage that you were taught at school. Quite possibly what the government means. How are the SETAs doing?

 

[Pitbull]

Apprenticeships.

Which was also taken away by the current government...

 

[ɹǝuuᴉM]

Investment in schools. The old way of teaching theory in schools and hoping young people will acquire the practical skills only after school won't work in the future. As technology advances, so does the learning period to learn to use the new tech. The same goes for tertiary academic studies. Years ago a degree was fine for you to get a good job. These days you need a masters, and if not, you have to distinguish and differentiate yourself with both superior ambition and creativity.

Call it academic and skills inflation.

Why should the private sector invest in schools??? The government should invest in schools, using tax money. Furthermore, the government should implement tax incentives so that the private sector is encouraged to take learners into learnerships, internships, apprenticeships, bursaries, scholarships programs and so on. This process is not working well in (South) Africa. It is not working because of more than one reason. The biggest issue is the very poor theoretical work done at schools. Some grade 12 students are basically illiterate yet the government expects the private sector to "absorb" them. You can not teach basic stuff to someone who should have gained that knowledge during elementary school. Just about all government institutions "absorbed" the badly educated youngsters and we all know what the result is.
Furthermore, the SA economy is not growing. Why should business waste money in training new workers while the business is struggling as is?
And finally: On top of it all, racist policies like so-called "Affirmative-Action", is killing South Africa left right and center. Deindustrialization is but one symptom. And it will get worse. Much worse!

 

[rwenzori]

Automation has also been on the conference agendas over the past few months. It is often questioned whether automation is not counterproductive in a country with a high unemployment rate. Should we not be creating jobs instead of automating processes?

Machines don't join unions.

It is not the task of businesses big and small to provide what government should. This government is hostile to businesses big and small, with excessive regulation, onerous tax rules, endless labour regulations, discriminatory AA and BEE policies, weak policing.

There is only one path out of the mess and that is to grow the economy, else the ever-expanding population just gets poorer -

- make SA investment friendly - kick out Zuma, Gigabyte, and all the other slime and make the state politically stable with competent financial administration
- simplify the tax rules and provide incentives for small and medium businesses that do not require jumping through hoops to obtain
- commit to the sanctity of private property and kill plans for nationalization, black ownership percentages, in fact all BEE nonsense
- remove a lot of the labour legislation that makes it difficult to kick out incompetents and regular strikers
- issue a moratorium on land claims, that create uncertainty about property ownership
- give up on impossible dreams like nuclear, and the national health plan.
- and of course put effort into jailing people for corruption, and take steps to reclaim ill-gotten gains.

 

[infscrtyrisk]

Why should the private sector invest in schools??? The government should invest in schools, using tax money. Furthermore, the government should implement tax incentives so that the private sector is encouraged to take learners into learnerships, internships, apprenticeships, bursaries, scholarships programs and so on. This process is not working well in (South) Africa. It is not working because of more than one reason. The biggest issue is the very poor theoretical work done at schools.

Ostensibly true. And yet many still entrust the government with their children's entire education, including <arguably> the most important one: theology. To me, it is mind-boggling.

Some grade 12 students are basically illiterate yet the government expects the private sector to "absorb" them. You can not teach basic stuff to someone who should have gained that knowledge during elementary school. Just about all government institutions "absorbed" the badly educated youngsters and we all know what the result is.

True, and so have all the SOEs.

If we examine the situation carefully, a broader theme emerges. It is clear that the people's expectations are vast. They rely on the government for education, safety and security, healthcare, housing, food parcels, electricity, birth control, water, transport, theology, income, jobs -- you name it, the list is endless. That defines their needs, whether right or wrong, but at least we are defining the expectation of the broader people.

Now without involving Maslow in this, can anyone define what they think that the purpose of a government actually is?

 

[infscrtyrisk]

Machines don't join unions.

True

This government is hostile to businesses big and small, with excessive regulation, onerous tax rules, endless labour regulations, discriminatory AA and BEE policies, weak policing.

Possibly true. The government would argue that it has a mandate from the people to do exactly this -- wave a wand and make all the consequences of global non-competitiveness and corruption disappear.

There is only one path out of the mess and that is to grow the economy, else the ever-expanding population just gets poorer

-

Great short term solution, but it doesn't solve the basic problem of being dependent on an every upwardly "hockey stick" growth curve. What happens when it comes down?

 

[rwenzori]

Great short term solution, but it doesn't solve the basic problem of being dependent on an every upwardly "hockey stick" growth curve. What happens when it comes down?

I'm not really sure - are you referring to local or international? We are certainly at the mercy of global prices and trends, but we can be masters of our own destiny to some extent. If you have an expanding population you have to maintain growth as far as possible. If we sit at buggerall growth, as now, there are effectively no jobs for next year's matriculants. Our unemployment is scary, especially if you take into account those who have "given up" looking for jobs, which should be included.

 

[infscrtyrisk]

I'm not really sure - are you referring to local or international?

I mean both -- no economy can exist as an island. It is prudent to assume that we are not masters of our own disaster.

If you have an expanding population you have to maintain growth as far as possible. If we sit at buggerall growth, as now, there are effectively no jobs for next year's matriculants. Our unemployment is scary, especially if you take into account those who have "given up" looking for jobs, which should be included.

Yes, agreed that it is pretty abysmal, and I am not arguing that. I am saying that it is "short term" because no economy spirals upward forever.

My argument is more about the expectations of the people. Can you define what *you* think the purpose of a government is?

 

[rwenzori]

Yes, agreed that it is pretty abysmal, and I am not arguing that. I am saying that it is "short term" because no economy spirals upward forever.

Yes, but if you have a period of zero growth after a good run, it happens on a bigger base.

My argument is more about the expectations of the people. Can you define what *you* think the purpose of a government is?

That is a complex question. I'd have to think. What is your conception?

 

[Solarion]

Walked into a bottling plant on Tuesday to meet a potential client, so he took me on a tour. What was once hundreds of workers down on the factory floor below, was now a city of machinery, working at 10 times the speed, with no downtime, no strikes, no theft and no excuses on Monday mornings.

Deal with it.

 

[konfab]

You can solve the problem of de-instudstrialisation quite quickly.
1) I would scrap taxation on all businesses all together. Conventional wisdom says you tax the thing that you don't want, and subsidise the thing you do want. SO why anyone thinks putting any sort of tax on business is a good thing is beyond me.
The less tax businesses have to pay, the more you encourage them to grow, the more people they employ, the more personal income tax you collect.

2) I would direct higher education to become online. Universities should be a place of research and accreditation, not the adult-day care that they have become. All lectures should done once properly and edited. Then put online for free.
Then all universities have to do is accredit people by doing examinations and stuff. That solves the access to tertiary education and will start allowing people to upskill themselves at a reasonable price.

3) Change the labour laws to allow employers to be able to fire people. Keeping a bad employee in a job is keeping a good employee out of one. Good employees allow businesses to grow, bad ones hold them back. This helps everyone.

 

[Garson007]

Walked into a bottling plant on Tuesday to meet a potential client, so he took me on a tour. What was once hundreds of workers down on the factory floor below, was now a city of machinery, working at 10 times the speed, with no downtime, no strikes, no theft and no excuses on Monday mornings.

That just means that there now exists opportunity for a new factory that could employ these hundreds of workers. Automization gets a bad rep for a bad reason. The economy isn't zero-sum.