We inherited corruption: ANC

[zulgin]

Not quite...I had a car radio swiped in 1980, and the Norwood cop came around to take a statement...after 45 minutes of battling to get him to write my statement, I offered to take over, saying that I would have battled as well, if I had had to take a statement in Afrikaans..." No...don't worry", he said," I AM English speaking..."

well we always used to joke about a speed cops:
1 sterretjie vir lees
2 sterretjies vir skryf
3 vir verstaan en skryf,

but I am talking about the guy over the counter, I had to file a lost and found item last month, jeez the wording was terrible. he spelt words like 'found = fand ' like - lyk, ai jong :<

 

[manesan]

Corrupt: Yes
Grossly Incompetent: No

Steal money off the top like governments the world over, but do so AFTER service delivery is in place.

There was virtually no service delivery let alone basic services for 80% of the country.

 

[blunomore]

There was virtually no service delivery let alone basic services for 80% of the country.

Exactly.

If you serve a miniscule part of the citizens of a country, you can hardly pride yourself on having perfected service delivery.

 

[TonyHawk]

well we always used to joke about a speed cops:
1 sterretjie vir lees
2 sterretjies vir skryf
3 vir verstaan en skryf,

but I am talking about the guy over the counter, I had to file a lost and found item last month, jeez the wording was terrible. he spelt words like 'found = fand ' like - lyk, ai jong :<

Sounds like mxit junkies in the force

 

[zulgin]

Sounds like mxit junkies in the force

I thought they needed a matric certificate, - doesn't say much about our standard of education.

 

[unskinnybob]

In the "old" civil service, people took jobs because it was easy .... not much to do, not many responsibilities, if you stayed in the service long enough and waited for the guy in the position above you to die, you were 99% likely to get his job. People all aimed to become directors in the civil service and to retire with their health intact (due to not doing too much) and a fat pension to boot.

Not sure what you base that on. The old civil servant I remember was humble and served the people. Positions were assigned based on qualification and experience unlike today where unqualified cadres get first dibs on jobs they don't have the first clue about. Government employees today consider themselves to be an elite of sorts - better than the public they're paid to serve.

 

[Sting]

Not sure what you base that on. The old civil servant I remember was humble and served the people. Positions were assigned based on qualification and experience unlike today where unqualified cadres get first dibs on jobs they don't have the first clue about. Government employees today consider themselves to be an elite of sorts - better than the public they're paid to serve.

And contrary to popular belief, you did not have to be Afrikaans and a NP member/voter to be employed in the Civil Service.

Admittedly the Top Boys were probably card-carrying Nats, but the rank and file were hard working citizens. If you did not carry your weight you were very quickly told to pack your bags -> labour legislation was pro-employer those days.

The lower level employees lived in fear of their supervisors and managers; you dreaded being called into the boss's office. And when you did, you wore a collar and tie and jacket - old school, but it instilled discipline (even though we rebelled against it!!).

So while the strategic priorities might have been skewered, the work was very efficiently executed.

As mentioned earlier, if there was even a hint of corruption at the rank and file level, it was investigated and perpetrators were very swiftly dealt with.

 

[Jola]

And contrary to popular belief, you did not have to be Afrikaans and a NP member/voter to be employed in the Civil Service.

Admittedly the Top Boys were probably card-carrying Nats, but the rank and file were hard working citizens. If you did not carry your weight you were very quickly told to pack your bags -> labour legislation was pro-employer those days.

The lower level employees lived in fear of their supervisors and managers; you dreaded being called into the boss's office. And when you did, you wore a collar and tie and jacket - old school, but it instilled discipline (even though we rebelled against it!!).

So while the strategic priorities might have been skewered, the work was very efficiently executed.

As mentioned earlier, if there was even a hint of corruption at the rank and file level, it was investigated and perpetrators were very swiftly dealt with.

+1

People are very quick to spout rubbish about the old system, but certainly at the lower levels there was way less corruption, and the system worked !!!

My dad was in the old civil service (40 years in Education) - he didn't strike once, and he was certainly less well paid than the Education fatcats of today (I say this based on the figures published by Government in the last two weeks). Life was tight.

I even doubt whether there was much corruption at the higher levels - sure, people dealing with oil/arms may have had some benefits, but that was a very small percentage. And that was discussed in the press, but with arms sanctions they couldn't say much - and if you are forced to work through arms brokers taking 8% haircuts, there are bound to be kickbacks.

And as to the BS about farms - there were tax benefits to owning a game farm - you could claim farming tax rules, so every doctor that I knew in those days had a little game farm somewhere. Usually they lost money on it, but they had the status of a game farm for at least a few years. IMO blu is just spouting absolute nonsense here, speaking out of sheer ignorance. Unfortunately this type of ignorant commentary helps to perpetuate a number of myths.

 

[zulgin]

Unfortunately I do not remember the title, but there is a book about how none, or very few, governments who came into power by way of revolution, stay in existence for much longer than 15 years.

Martin Meredith - the state of Africa

 

[w1z4rd]

+1

People are very quick to spout rubbish about the old system, but certainly at the lower levels there was way less corruption, and the system worked !!!

My dad was in the old civil service (40 years in Education) - he didn't strike once, and he was certainly less well paid than the Education fatcats of today (I say this based on the figures published by Government in the last two weeks). Life was tight.

I even doubt whether there was much corruption at the higher levels - sure, people dealing with oil/arms may have had some benefits, but that was a very small percentage. And that was discussed in the press, but with arms sanctions they couldn't say much - and if you are forced to work through arms brokers taking 8% haircuts, there are bound to be kickbacks.

And as to the BS about farms - there were tax benefits to owning a game farm - you could claim farming tax rules, so every doctor that I knew in those days had a little game farm somewhere. Usually they lost money on it, but they had the status of a game farm for at least a few years. IMO blu is just spouting absolute nonsense here, speaking out of sheer ignorance. Unfortunately this type of ignorant commentary helps to perpetuate a number of myths.

I just laughed when I read this post. Do you seriously believe what you wrote or are you writing this just to make yourself feel better about that time period?

You claim less corruption yet completely ignore my posts where I showed obvious corrupt where the NATS secret hit squads were not able to cover up the story.

Yeah dude... they were angels They took positions of power just to help out you poor volk and not for personal enrichment and power.

God people amaze me in how easily they`ll believe a fantastical untruth to fit their realities instead of man`ing up and facing the truth.

 

[Albereth]

It is truely sad how levels of corruption are compared along the lines because X did it so can we. And the equally pathetic argument of all the resources were used to benefit a few. Boo hoo! Get over it because we most certainly wouldn't be here today if this hadn't been the case.

Like it or not but technology was introduced by westerners as were the ideas for commercial exploitation on a grand scale. Take a good look around you and point out one thing fundamental thing that doesn't have a western influence. (And for those of you that believe that gun powder and the numerals that we use aren't western - westerners saw a good idea and made it count). Where is the indigenous influence? There isn't one (Other than in music I'm stumped but please comment if you have an example). The inhabitants of South Africa at the time that the white man and the black man arrived were, and still are, primitive. Not to say that they are unhappy and don't enjoy life but there is little evidence to suggest progression past the stone age.

So back to the story. If you want to exploit the minerals you need to sort the logistics. Getting to them and getting them out required roads and rail and shipping and harbours. And some cheap labour of course. All this infrastructure costs money and for a while it was funded by the British Empire, and in time by the taxes raised by the SA government. When you are building something you do have to protect your source of supply and in this case it was mainly whites. <Insert counter-argument about job protection etc etc.> Apartheid was terrible - we know. But if we didn't have it we might not be here either. Sure, maybe there would have been foreign investment but at the expense of growing cash crops if we were lucky. Or, and this is more likely, we'd have situation not too dissimilar to west African countries. And let us not forget that SA was strategic during the cold war.

So, yeah. We have a colourful and often unpleasant history. But it has got it to where we are. Is there really any need to continue repeating it?

 

[marine1]

I just laughed when I read this post. Do you seriously believe what you wrote or are you writing this just to make yourself feel better about that time period?

You claim less corruption yet completely ignore my posts where I showed obvious corrupt where the NATS secret hit squads were not able to cover up the story.

Yeah dude... they were angels They took positions of power just to help out you poor volk and not for personal enrichment and power.

God people amaze me in how easily they`ll believe a fantastical untruth to fit their realities instead of man`ing up and facing the truth.

Yes and of course the ANC dont have hit squads
Maybe take your head out of your liberal toilet and see what is really going on for a change.
Funny how many blacks felt safer in the "old days".
You immediately think that by eople saying things were better, that they supported Apartheid, all they are saying is things were better, maybe in terms of safety, things working etc.

 

[unskinnybob]

I just laughed when I read this post. Do you seriously believe what you wrote or are you writing this just to make yourself feel better about that time period?

You claim less corruption yet completely ignore my posts where I showed obvious corrupt where the NATS secret hit squads were not able to cover up the story.

Yeah dude... they were angels They took positions of power just to help out you poor volk and not for personal enrichment and power.

God people amaze me in how easily they`ll believe a fantastical untruth to fit their realities instead of man`ing up and facing the truth.

Distinguish between politics and government. Hit squads have absolutely nothing to do with corruption. The NATS were pushing a political agenda. By your logic, what political agenda are the ANC pushing with corruption?

 

[Jola]

I just laughed when I read this post. Do you seriously believe what you wrote or are you writing this just to make yourself feel better about that time period?

Yeah, that stuff that you smoke when you make up your stories does make you giggle.

You must lay off, it's not good for you !

Ignorance is bliss, is it not ? Haven't read as much claptrap as what you've spouted for a long time.

Note : Just to make it clear, I never supported Apartheid or the Nats, and didn't vote for them. But I can't accept blatant misinformation.

I was almost arrested in the early 80's by the Apartheid security after threatening to go to the press about a waste of money by the military, and was threatened with prison and quoted the Official Secrets Act. But that wasn't corruption, and wasn't a waste of money nearly on the scale of what you see now.

So I'm not an Apartheid friend, they almost jailed me for protesting against them.

 

[Albereth]

Distinguish between politics and government. Hit squads have absolutely nothing to do with corruption. The NATS were pushing a political agenda. By your logic, what political agenda are the ANC pushing with corruption?

Unless you define corruption to include ethical or moral corruption. But I think we are discussing just the financial corruption.

 

[Mila]

Is there really any need to continue repeating it?

I have asked this too. And the answer is yes. Becuase the ANC wants to be better at everything. Including Corruption

 

[Divestar]

I have asked this too. And the answer is yes. Becuase the ANC wants to be better at everything. Including Corruption

This is exactly the problem with the ANC!

 

[manesan]

It always amazes me on MyBB, people gloating and trying to convince others how great the "good old days" were.

 

[PeterCH]

The problem is that this isn't true.

There is this myth about "uneducated masses" but even the educated, middle class guys vote for the ANC because they simply feel there is nobody else to vote for. Most black men would never see themselves voting for Helen Zille because they have a deeply mysogynistic culture and could never see themselves being "ruled" by a woman. The loyalty to the struggle movement is also a big issue. Then you get the people who believe that the ANC is bigger than the corrupt racist idiot who run it so they still vote for them. If you were to ask the black folk who post on MyBB who they vote for I'm pretty sure the vast majority would say the ANC.

Face it, white South Africans have "The devil made me do it." black South Africans have "Apartheid made me do it."

Voting is along colour lines because of the history. It shouldn't be surprising from the way we dehumanised blacks that they would not want whites voted even, even chest thumping whites who blamed the Afrikaaners for all the nasty stuff while even making themselves victims of apartheid. Since blacks are equal to whites they should have their own candidates capable of being equal or better than the whites and so its not necessary to vote for the white politician. Trust will take many years to build up. Sadly the ANC is not helping as it has a vested interest in fostering a degree of mistrust among the black population of white ambitions. Blood is also thicker than water, let the president not be as good, but heck, he's at least our president.

 

[PeterCH]

It always amazes me on MyBB, people gloating and trying to convince others how great the "good old days" were.

They were good for most whites, with the exception of the guys who had to fight these wars.