What whites must do...

[Vrotappel]

I don't want to harp on about the tax idea. Anyone have any other ideas? So far we have violence/war. An option but I just don't see enough evidence to suggest that is feasible. Open to discussion but I would need major convincing. Then we have emigration. An option, not ideal, but an option nevertheless to keep in mind. Then withholding taxes. Also, an option, not sure tax payers can really operate as a unit on a mass scale, legality issues, but an option nevertheless. Any other options/ideas?

Higher taxes = more poverty, get another idea.

 

[Voltorr]

Sorry but short of having food in the house and running water I worked for what i got. Went to a school were 50% didn't pay fees, worked hard got a bursary went to varsity and have now joined the rat race. Nothing was handed to me, i understand there is poverty and i contribute a considerable amount every month to help..... i would much rather keep my taxes and buy myself a house

In fact most of my friends have the exact same story, some a little worse some slightly better. Do you know what it feels like at 17 to go for an interview to receive a scholarship and at the interview to be told sorry you shouldn't have been invited, this is only for people from your school of a certain colour.

 

[Voicy]

Sorry but short of having food in the house and running water I worked for what i got. Went to a school were 50% didn't pay fees, worked hard got a bursary went to varsity and have now joined the rat race. Nothing was handed to me, i understand there is poverty and i contribute a considerable amount every month to help..... i would much rather keep my taxes and buy myself a house

In fact most of my friends have the exact same story, some a little worse some slightly better. Do you know what it feels like at 17 to go for an interview to receive a scholarship and at the interview to be told sorry you shouldn't have been invited, this is only for people from your school of a certain colour.

I know what you mean dude. I was turned down from an internship when they took on blacks only...until I told them I'd work for them for free just to get the experience. All of a sudden I was good enough. A month later they employed me full time on their payroll. Before that I worked for R200/week at an electronics store fixing tv's, hifi's, DSTV decoders, gate motors etc. for less than what a gardener or grocery packer gets paid. I also paid my own way through mostly black technikons to get to where I am today. My mom was a teacher who only got paid half-salaries by the school's governing body because the dept. of education has not paid her for over 2 years. My dad worked out of town in the transkei where we'd only see him once every 3-4 weeks, just so he could provide for us. Telkom then retrenched him after 30 years of loyal service because of the colour of his skin. I'd like to see any currently-advantaged person tell me I was better off than them. They kindly can go Fsck themselves.

 

[Valaskjalf]

Fine, if you wanna take our homes then you better pay for it. This whole "we want eveything for free" bull is getting tiresome. Some of these okes are worse than dogs...they think if you pee on a tree then its your property. Thats not how it works in the 21 century my friend, go take your "al die osse in die kraal" mentality somewhere else.

And when you take our homes why dont we just demolish every single manmade struture ever built in our country? (And no I dont mean huts I mean permanent structures) Why not remove all the power stations, electrical lines, sewerage systems, roads, cars, all industrial facilities and equipment? Since the white man is such an evil being, it must be unfathomable that you would want to make use of the conveniences/intelligence the Europeans brought over to our shores?

So lets do that....we remove any trace of the white man's existence in our country and Malema and his buddies can run after their cows in the bush to their hearts' content. What do you say Julius? No? too fond of that fancy Land Rover our white minds made possible for you? Ag shame....

 

[warchylde]

I know what you mean dude. I was turned down from an internship when they took on blacks only....

Yep sat without work for almost two years. Had to mow lawns, wash cars, wash bins, help build walls for a handyman.... anything I could to put food on the table.

Fine, if you wanna take our homes then you better pay for it. This whole "we want eveything for free" bull is getting tiresome. Some of these okes are worse than dogs...they think if you pee on a tree then its your property. Thats not how it works in the 21 century my friend, go take your "al die osse in die kraal" mentality somewhere else.

And when you take our homes why dont we just demolish every single manmade struture ever built in our country? (And no I dont mean huts I mean permanent structures) Why not remove all the power stations, electrical lines, sewerage systems, roads, cars, all industrial facilities and equipment? Since the white man is such an evil being, it must be unfathomable that you would want to make use of the conveniences/intelligence the Europeans brought over to our shores?

So lets do that....we remove any trace of the white man's existence in our country and Malema and his buddies can run after their cows in the bush to their hearts' content. What do you say Julius? No? too fond of that fancy Land Rover our white minds made possible for you? Ag shame....

Exactly my sentiments. If they want all of us to leave then I say lets do it. But not only must we remove what was brought to this continent but also any possible future involvement of the first world countries. They say they can do better without us - I say let them prove it. No western help whatsoever. No factories, no loans, no investments. SHOW us how you are going to do better.

 

[Ronjay]

Q: The AWB's leader was murdered. Is their anger understandable?

A: It certainly is, in terms of their own attachment to him, in the way any of us view our leaders we hold dear. But their language of revenge, of blood on the streets, is going too far.

Q: If farmers believe they're under attack, why can't they legitimately focus on that?

A: They're within a context - the general malaise in terms of labour relations between farmers and farm workers is not unique to the AWB. Power has been in the hands of a white minority, including on farms, and the role of farm workers has been chattel, cheap labour, and it's not changing. There is a lack of self-recognition of the damage done by poor labour rights, dehumanising treatment of farm workers over centuries. This self-centredness doesn't see any pain other than their own.

Q: What do you think of President Jacob Zuma's leadership during this time?

A: In recent months he has made two recent visits to so-called white squatter camps, when there are black people suffering just as much in black townships nearby. Why is he so much more concerned with white poverty? It's bizarre.

Q: Do the majority of black citizens still believe the ANC is the best party to change their lives?

A: The polls tell us one thing, but the level of unhappiness tells us another - the strikes, service delivery protests, union stand-offs...

Q: Why don't people vote differently?

A: Maybe because of the lack of voter education. Maybe the propaganda machine that has presented the ANC as "the" liberation movement. The manner in which election funding is distributed makes it easy for larger parties to be more visible.

Q: Back to farms: you've said you want the willing buyer/willing seller formula scrapped?

A: It must be. It's a terrible thing. Where was the willing buyer/willing seller when this land was stolen from the indigenous people?

Q: Do you think that the Zimbabwean model is a good model to follow?

A: It's an understandable model, it could have been done better but the principle is right. This is what happens when the small minority is not willing to surrender its benefits, and do not engage nationhood.

Q: You think farmers should be part of the nation, but should be willing to have their farms taken away.

A: They should be willing to give appropriate restitution - not only white farmers, but white capital. There must be justice and reconciliation, not only truth and reconciliation. The minority still have the same lives - the large houses, the two maids... African people are poorer than before 1994, and the white population are better off.

Q: Would you like land rights in the constitution to be scrapped or amended?

A: They must be amended. It's a great betrayal of our time.

Q: Just farms, or residential areas too?

A: Land is land. The principle is that the land which was taken since 1652, it must be given back.

Q: There may not be enough Khoisan descendants to give the Western Cape back to.

A: It's not just the Khoisan, but all African persons must have a far greater stake in all this land.

Q: How would you propose all white-owned properties be distributed?

A: I think we need to avoid a numbers game. You'd have to do scientific studies of every kind, to ensure that once we have access to this land, it is used efficiently.

Q: Are white land owners on borrowed time?

A: They should think of themselves as being extremely fortunate. The Kempton Park settlement was easy on them. Their entitlements were grabbed, often illegally.

Basically a female clone of Malema. I bet she was wearing a gold watch and gold jewelry and exorbitantly expensive clothes and drives a Merc. Yip just barely above the poverty line there. Fusking hypocrites.

 

[Voltorr]

It's scary how resentment is building on both sides, the unemployed want service delivery and what they were promised, the employed wants equal opportunity and basic services to continue running while they continue paying taxes. It's this idea of "growing" resentment or being upset that scares me the most. Malema just aggravates it. Is it normal for everyone to feel hard done by...probably, but I don't think it's normal, minority or not, for anybody to be concerned or worried about their future to belong or place within their country of birth. I hate the fact that i'm worried about such matters, just make a decision so i can know where i stand.

 

[warchylde]

It's scary how resentment is building on both sides, the unemployed want service delivery and what they were promised, the employed wants equal opportunity and basic services to continue running while they continue paying taxes. It's this idea of "growing" resentment or being upset that scares me the most. Malema just aggravates it. Is it normal for everyone to feel hard done by...probably, but I don't think it's normal, minority or not, for anybody to be concerned or worried about their future to belong or place within their country of birth. I hate the fact that i'm worried about such matters, just make a decision so i can know where i stand.

This feeling has been created by the fact that we are powerless against a massive political party that has made insane promises that it can't keep. Instead of even trying to implement the said promises they misdirect the anger towards the racial group that previously were seen as their oppressors. Basic principle people will believe what they WANT to believe. Regardless if it's true or not. The majority of the voting public that voted for the ANC will NEVER admit they made a mistake. So the cycle will continue.

I believe the term is denial.

 

[Valaskjalf]

This feeling has been created by the fact that we are powerless against a massive political party that has made insane promises that it can't keep. Instead of even trying to implement the said promises they misdirect the anger towards the racial group that previously were seen as their oppressors. Basic principle people will believe what they WANT to believe. Regardless if it's true or not. The majority of the voting public that voted for the ANC will NEVER admit they made a mistake. So the cycle will continue.

I believe the term is denial.

What gets me is that the ANC, who is IN POWER, still want their followers to believe that the white minority is still in control/responsible for their hardship. How does that even make sense? Just playing devil's advocate here: So you control the government, yet are incapable of preventing poverty because 5% of the country is making progress impossible? Do you even realize how stupid that sounds? You have a finger in every pie in this country, blacks are probably worse off than they were during the apartheid days....yet you blame us? Honestly...how is this not YOUR fault ANC?

Lastly...how does the ANC still have ANY supportsince the latest scandal involving the Rbillion tax expenditure? Why dont the ANC supporters understand that its BAD? Sometimes I feel I just want to shake each and every one of them and tell them to wake up! The ANC runs the show, the ANC steals the money....how is that a "white" error? PLEASE tell me...

Any pro-Malema people out there please respond to this. But before you do READ WHAT I SAID and THINK about it. Dont just dismiss it because Im white, give me a reason why you REFUSE to even consider the cold hard facts about the ANC when most of you never even went through apartheid, yet still blame whites! Tell me how the ANC has improved your wellbeing....Im dying to know.

 

[marine1]

We whites will be blamed for the next 1000 years.

 

[Morgoth]

We whites will be blamed for the next 1000 years.

that is about the time I give africa to get out of tribalism (I am an optimist)

 

[Palimino]

ok fine accepted then. But why pray tell should I pay more tax - I already fork out close to R100k per year which is supposed to be used to supply me with working infrastructure and gets pilfered by the greedy ANC swines. Why not force the ANC to take a chunk of the already fat tax money they use for bling and deposit that so that IT can be properly used the way they are SUPPOSED to be doing it in the first bloody place? What you are basically getting at is that instead of fixing what is wrong with the country we once again compensate for their dismal failures. I think not.

Exactly! This begging for more money from an impoverished population (already paying for bling and mismanagement) is sickening.

 

[Palimino]

There are of course differing degrees of a difficult upbringing but I seriously do not think there is one white person on here who can even dare compare the way they lived to the way a lot of others do in this country!

You are making GROSS assumptions about white people. I suppose because they’re white they must be rich and therefore must contribute bling to the ‘previously disadvantaged’

 

[Palimino]

The person that succeeds under those circumstances is the exception rather than the rule.

CRAP! I recall watching a (boo, hoo – pore me) TV program on the dreadful living conditions in a mining hostel. And they were awful. I remember the communal hostel toilet. Filthy. FFS why did they not just clean it? This was a hostel full of able-bodied men. Much could have been done with primitive tools (no plumbing work necessary). Same with the rest of the hostel.

You don’t have to be ‘exceptional’ to not want to wallow in squalor with your begging hand extended.

 

[Palimino]

What I learnt in this thread:

1. People living in poverty deserve their lot in life because they didn't try hard enough.

2. The government is incompetent because they have been unable to pull 85% of the population from the poverty level since 1994.

3. Those living good lives owe nothing to those living in poverty and to assist them would be an insult to our sensibilities.

Thanks guys, go well.

You seem to have grasped the ‘no entitlement’ ethic.

 

[xrapidx]

CRAP! I recall watching a (boo, hoo – pore me) TV program on the dreadful living conditions in a mining hostel. And they were awful. I remember the communal hostel toilet. Filthy. FFS why did they not just clean it? This was a hostel full of able-bodied men. Much could have been done with primitive tools (no plumbing work necessary). Same with the rest of the hostel.

You don’t have to be ‘exceptional’ to not want to wallow in squalor with your begging hand extended.

Exactly - it boils down to providing food isn't good enough, we have to cook it and serve it as well...

 

[Palimino]

Personally I want to propose that we offer a trade-off. Let the government convince the European Parliament to give all the whites who want European citizenship and passports and let them go. I am even prepared to leave all my riches behind for the masses to share. (After all most of us are only here because our forefathers fled religious persecution and Europe ought to reinstate our rights.)

Without any whites in SA it should be easy to solve all the country's problems in a very short time.

You mean abandon the country I was born in? Not going to happen. Fukem. I’ll go down fighting kicking black ass.

 

[Palimino]

...and potentially your life. You willing to give that all up?

Sure! It will be at least 100:1 ratio (maybe more).