WhatsApp vs Telegram - Features and security

sajunky said:
It does P2P indeed as advertised. In consequence both peers must have Internet access in the same time, even for few seconds. Otherwise you will see a one tick next to the message instead of two.

Client-server architecture is more flexible and when I want true encrypted P2P for some reason, I will use secret chats in Telegram.
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umm no 1 tick means its delivered to whatsapp server, both done need to be online.
i can be online and you not, i have seen people who stay offline for months and get messages delivered to them, and ive delted the message from my phone
it's not p2p its server based
message goes from you to whatsapp server once recipient is online it goes to teir phone and deleted off the server.


would you post proof of this advertised p2p cause their site still says its on their server until deleted

"Your messages should be in your hands. That's why WhatsApp doesn't store your messages on our servers once we deliver them, and end-to-end encryption means that WhatsApp and third parties can't read them anyway."
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unless you are confusing their plans to set up peer to peer payment which is something else entirely
 
isie said:
i can be online and you not, i have seen people who stay offline for months and get messages delivered to them, and ive delted the message from my phone
it's not p2p its server based
message goes from you to whatsapp server once recipient is online it goes to teir phone and deleted off the server.


would you post proof of this advertised p2p cause their site still says its on their server until deleted
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I didn't investigate it, so I may be wrong. I noticed that with intermitent Internet connection Whatsapp messages from the same people tend to be delivered with couple hours delay, while Telegram handle it much better. I don't confuse end-to-end encryption with end-to-end delivery, but it was repeated conversation in the past trying to convince us that Whatsapp is more secure than Telegram, I might had been brainwashed. ;)

I am mainly Telegram user, but you can do your own tests according to the suggestion posted by the other member. I don't mind to be corrected. :)
 
Merlin said:
The smart kids use Signal. ;-)
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Signal is hardly an improvement over WhatsApp. E2E chat is a pain in the ass, but if you're going to deal with it you may as well use a platform that almost everyone is already using. Also, avatars in one-on-one chat is a waste of space and really dumb.

I don't use Telegram because it's more secure than WhatsApp, although I'd be surprised if it wasn't. I use it because it's cloud-based and has a gazillion other awesome features.

Telegram groups allow 50k members, smart notifications (silent unless you're mentioned), mod tools, can be publicly searchable etc. Really a crying shame how many South Africans use WhatsApp for important groups (community watch, parent groups, neighbourhoods etc) considering how powerful Telegram is for stuff like that. They wouldn't even need any of the other group members' numbers to see them normally in the app.
 
sajunky said:
I didn't investigate it, so I may be wrong. I noticed that with intermitent Internet connection Whatsapp messages from the same people tend to be delivered with couple hours delay, while Telegram handle it much better. I don't confuse end-to-end encryption with end-to-end delivery, but it was repeated conversation in the past trying to convince us that Whatsapp is more secure than Telegram, I might had been brainwashed. ;)

I am mainly Telegram user, but you can do your own tests according to the suggestion posted by the other member. I don't mind to be corrected. :)
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Explain what you mean with the same people it's delivered after hours - are they the type of people who turn off data connection - how do you expect it to be delivered without data?

I had tested. did you not see the first line of my post?



Do this turn data off( no wifi obviously) on a friends phone , send them a whatsapp (one grey tick on your phone) , now turn data connection off on your phone and turn it on on their phone, and watch the message get delivered even though yours is offline.
and consider yourself corrected.


Also on encryption someone correct me if i am wrong but all chats in whatsapp are end to end encrypted by default., in telegram only the secret chats are.
 
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sajunky said:
It does P2P indeed as advertised. In consequence both peers must have Internet access in the same time, even for few seconds. Otherwise you will see a one tick next to the message instead of two.

Client-server architecture is more flexible and when I want true encrypted P2P for some reason, I will use secret chats in Telegram.
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it is client server. One tick means the message is delivered (encrypted with the recipient's key) to o Whatsapp's servers. The sender does not need to remain connected for the recipient to get the message, unless the recipient's key change (new phone for example)

The main reason you can't get old messages from the server is that (if it is saved) you wouldn't be able to decrypt it without your old key... Telegram's mostly unencrypted messages makes that much easier..
 
isie said:
Explain what you mean with the same people it's delivered after hours - are they the type of people who turn off data connection - how do you expect it to be delivered without data?
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I just report my experience. People send to me Whatsapp messages which I tend to ignore. If they do not receive my reply, they send it by Telegram. The Whatsapp messages are send first, then by Telegram (if they really need my help), it is what people do. It is not so rare that Whatsapp messages come after few hours delay (especially it happens when I am on the road), while Telegram messages come as soon I am back on the Internet. Please don't expect from me to give you other explanations, I gave you one, but you say I am wrong. I can agree, but it is all I can do for you. :)

isie said:
Do this turn data off( no wifi obviously) on a friends phone , send them a whatsapp (one grey tick on your phone) , now turn data connection off on your phone and turn it on on their phone, and watch the message get delivered even though yours is offline.
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Did you ever considered that Whatsapp messages can be stored directly on your cloud? To eliminate such possibility you must disable Whatsapp cloud service.

isie said:
Also on encryption someone correct me if i am wrong but all chats in whatsapp are end to end encrypted by default., in telegram only the secret chats are.
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Yes, in this case I can confirm, you are wrong. All Telegram messages are encrypted. The main difference is that normal chats messages are stored on the Telegram servers (in encrypted form as I said), while secret chats messages are encrypted end-to-end. In addition secret chats messages do not pass through the Telegram servers at all, they are delivered P2P. It means that both peers have to be online during delivering a message. It is inconvenient, but they decided it is more secure that way.
Secret chats also exchange keys frequently, so if there is any successful MITM on the line, it will be able to read only current messages (not all past messages as it is with Whatsapp).
 
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sajunky said:
I just report my experience. People send to me Whatsapp messages which I tend to ignore. If they do not receive my reply, they send it by Telegram. The Whatsapp messages are send first, then by Telegram (if they really need my help), it is what people do. It is not so rare that Whatsapp messages come after few hours delay (especially it happens when I am on the road), while Telegram messages come as soon I am back on the Internet. Please don't expect from me to give you other explanations, I gave you one, but you say I am wrong. I can agree, but it is all I can do for you. :)
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I still don't get how you view this as whatsapp being being p2p - looks like you ignoring their messages so they see your last seen and 2 grey ticks so they resort to telegram, this isn't a problem with whatsapp - its you or at least your preference for using telegram.


sajunky said:
Did you ever considered that Whatsapp messages can be stored directly on your cloud? To eliminate such possibility you must disable Whatsapp cloud service.
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Cloud service? there is no cloud service you only use your google drive or apple cloud (depending on what phone you have) to back up chats it does not use this to transfer messages - all this info is on whatsapps site .
are you one of those people that make **** up and use that to justify your arguments?
sajunky said:
Yes, in this case I can confirm, you are wrong. All Telegram messages are encrypted. The main difference is that normal chats messages are stored on the Telegram servers (in encrypted form as I said), while secret chats messages are encrypted end-to-end. In addition secret chats messages do not pass through the Telegram servers at all, they are delivered P2P. It means that both peers have to be online during delivering a message. It is inconvenient, but they decided it is more secure that way.
Secret chats also exchange keys frequently, so if there is any successful MITM on the line, it will be able to read only current messages (not all past messages as it is with Whatsapp).
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actually if you read i said end to end encryption, check Telegram say they use Server-client encryption for normal chats and groups only end to end is used for secret chats.
If you knew the difference between the 2 you would know which is more secure and where one of them can be more easily intercepted.
 
aktiv said:
Don't care about features or security - all my family and friends use Whatsapp
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This MXIT is useless, everyone I know uses SMS.

This BBM is useless, everyone I know is using MXIT.

This WhatsApp is useless, everyone is on BBM.

This Telegram is useless.........
 
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