Which would you pick?

[Park@82]

Why is he (and you) reposting an image from early 2024? From the damage on that car it seems that it was in an accident and as part of the accident, the axle broke off. There are something like 40 000 Cherry Tiggo 4's on SA roads (if not more). If this was a problem there'd be more than 1 photo.

I don't think they're the greatest car on the planet, but pick a car brand and I'm sure I can find a pick of one of them in a bad way.

Because I also saw this https://www.talk-finance.co.uk/economics/chery-tiggo-4-pro-omoda-c5/ Might be propaganda though. May be worth looking into.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Cause they help on wet roads, even if they car is asthmatic, there can still be enough power for it to lose traction on wet roads.

But you have to be a complete muppet to manage that and shouldn’t have a driver’s license then.

It’s just not what I would even consider a feature, but then I learnt to drive with real cars where you had to respect it to survive.

 

[Lupus]

But you have to be a complete muppet to manage that and shouldn’t have a driver’s license then.

It doesn't take much to lose traction on a wet road. Done a few gymkhanas on wet roads to know it doesn't, plus heavy cars especially top heavy don't help.
I've had plenty of cars without it and never batted an eyelid. Normally even if it wasn't on the car I would be able to recover. But it does help make the recovery quicker
Remember the crash tests are done at 60km/h.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Yeah, those handling tests are done at less than 80km/h, and many cars battle, even with stability and traction control, so you don't really need that much power to get into a sticky situation.

But that’s pretty much supporting my point.

It’s not doing very much if it isn’t even working properly on the low power cars that do have it.

You don’t have enough power for the system to cut out in the first place, which means you likely didn’t lose traction from power to start with and therefore it won’t save you.

Now full on ESP with individual braking is a different story but I don’t think any of these cars even run those kinds of systems but I might be wrong, but it would explain why they struggle with the handling tests if they only have throttle control in play.

 

[SauRoNZA]

It doesn't take much to lose traction on a wet road. Done a few gymkhanas on wet roads to know it doesn't, plus heavy cars especially top heavy don't help.
I've had plenty of cars without it and never batted an eyelid. Normally even if it wasn't on the car I would be able to recover. But it does help make the recovery quicker
Remember the crash tests are done at 60km/h.

Yes but that’s not because of power, so a system that cuts the power only doesn’t do much of anything to rectify the situation.

You need the full blown yaw sensor and individual braking setups for that to be rectified in any way.

People should really just learn to drive properly.

Even better go do exactly this, a wet gymkhana before you are even allowed to test for a license.

I have never in my life had any of these systems come on in my car (or bike ) during normal every day driving/riding come rain or shine.

The only time the dashboard ever lights up is when I’ve forced it.

Same can really be said for ABS, because it’s a useless feature unless someone has been trained to use it.

 

[Lupus]

But that’s pretty much supporting my point.

It’s not doing very much if it isn’t even working properly on the low power cars that do have it.

You don’t have enough power for the system to cut out in the first place, which means you likely didn’t lose traction from power to start with and therefore it won’t save you.

Now full on ESP with individual braking is a different story but I don’t think any of these cars even run those kinds of systems but I might be wrong, but it would explain why they struggle with the handling tests if they only have throttle control in play.

But it's got nothing to do with power, it's about keeping traction and stability. Dirt, wet roads, even the paint on the road can all make you lose traction, which the tcs then helps with.

 

[Lupus]

Yes but that’s not because of power, so a system that cuts the power only doesn’t do much of anything to rectify the situation.

You need the full blown yaw sensor and individual braking setups for that to be rectified in any way.

People should really just learn to drive properly.

Even better go do exactly this, a wet gymkhana before you are even allowed to test for a license.

I have never in my life had any of these systems come on in my car (or bike ) during normal every day driving/riding come rain or shine.

The only time the dashboard ever lights up is when I’ve forced it.

Same can really be said for ABS, because it’s a useless feature unless someone has been trained to use it.

Tcs doesn't only cut power, it can apply braking force as well. Remember that to gain traction you want the wheel that's lost traction to slow down, thereby getting it back. Especially since it's tied in with ABS now, going around a corner and the back wheel hits water loses traction, bam tcs kicks in for a second to help it regain, preventing a possibly accident.
Saying people should drive better, makes it feel like we should just get rid of airbags and abs while we're at it. My first 3 cars never had such fancy malarkey.
Also just because you've never had it happen, doesn't mean it won't or can't. Accidents happen

 

[Brawler]

So the catasrophe is that if you're in an accident in a Cherry the back axle might snap off?

That particular Chery and it's sister Omoda car had an issue with the rear axle. There were multiple threads / pictures floating about last year. There was a thread on reddit and I think topauto posted a response from Chery.
AFAIR they were recalled. There was even a video where it was just driving in a straight line and the axle just fell off and the car flipped. It was posted here and I still have the link but it has been deleted and wiped off the internet (sus).

 

[TheChamp]

But that’s pretty much supporting my point.

It’s not doing very much if it isn’t even working properly on the low power cars that do have it.

You don’t have enough power for the system to cut out in the first place, which means you likely didn’t lose traction from power to start with and therefore it won’t save you.

Now full on ESP with individual braking is a different story but I don’t think any of these cars even run those kinds of systems but I might be wrong, but it would explain why they struggle with the handling tests if they only have throttle control in play.

You are missing the point though, I said they struggle, not that they are not effective, and I did not imply it's a cross the board, some systems are better designed than others.

The point is that even the most underpowered car can still reach that speed, and the systems will always react differently based on a number of factors like the weight of the car, ground clearance etc

All in all those are very useful features to have in a car.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Tcs doesn't only cut power, it can apply braking force as well. Remember that to gain traction you want the wheel that's lost traction to slow down, thereby getting it back. Especially since it's tied in with ABS now, going around a corner and the back wheel hits water loses traction, bam tcs kicks in for a second to help it regain, preventing a possibly accident.
Saying people should drive better, makes it feel like we should just get rid of airbags and abs while we're at it. My first 3 cars never had such fancy malarkey.

That’s what I was trying to say is before it was tied to ABS to have the ability to brake individual wheels, all it ever did was cut power which in those lower end baby engine cars means nothing.

These things are all branded and named ever so slightly different and you need to look a lot deeper to be sure what you are getting.

But again you have to be an absolute muppet or having no environmental/situational awareness for these things to kick in, in the first place.

In many ways I do think removing ABS and airbags would make it safer for everyone…everyone else because the muppets would no longer be on the road.

/i kid I kid.

 

[Lupus]

You are missing the point though, I said they struggle, not that they are not effective, and I did not imply it's a cross the board, some systems are better designed than others.

The point is that even the most underpowered car can still reach that speed, and the systems will always react differently based on a number of factors like the weight of the car, ground clearance etc

All in all those are very useful features to have in a car.

Plus, just because you've never needed it now, doesn't mean you'll never need it or be glad it was there. Especially with two daughters that he has. I'm glad my Clio has those features even if it's not powerful enough apparently. Why cause my niece who will be driving it, well will be driving it and whatever can assist in keeping her alive is better for me.

 

[SauRoNZA]

You are missing the point though, I said they struggle, not that they are not effective, and I did not imply it's a cross the board, some systems are better designed than others.

The point is that even the most underpowered car can still reach that speed, and the systems will always react differently based on a number of factors like the weight of the car, ground clearance etc

All in all those are very useful features to have in a car.

Well that is why I said you need to look at these reports and things in great detail because like you say no two systems are the same or equally effective.

Would I have them taken out of my car? Obviously not.

But if it’s the one feature difference between two cars it wouldn’t be high of my list for taking one over the other.

In fact when I bought our Kia Picanto it was getting nailed on the NCAP for not having ESP compared to others and in the 7ish years I owned the car it was never missed once.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Plus, just because you've never needed it now, doesn't mean you'll never need it or be glad it was there. Especially with two daughters that he has. I'm glad my Clio has those features even if it's not powerful enough apparently. Why cause my niece who will be driving it, well will be driving it and whatever can assist in keeping her alive is better for me.

So send her on a proper driving academy course before handing her the keys.

It will do a far better job of keeping her alive so she doesn’t get into a situation where she ever needs the electronic driving aids in the first place.

 

[TheChamp]

That particular Chery and it's sister Omoda car had an issue with the rear axle. There were multiple threads / pictures floating about last year. There was a thread on reddit and I think topauto posted a response from Chery.
AFAIR they were recalled. There was even a video where it was just driving in a straight line and the axle just fell off and the car flipped. It was posted here and I still have the link but it has been deleted and wiped off the internet (sus).

I think that's your problem, pictures floating about is not really something credible in the age of social media and fake news.

There was a recall in some foreign country for the Omoda, there was never any recall for Omoda in SA nor was there for the Tiggo relating to such incidents.

Honestly with the number of cars Chery sells here you would be able to easily supply 10 examples of the catastrophic failures.

 

[Lupus]

Well that is why I said you need to look at these reports and things in great detail because like you say no two systems are the same or equally effective.

Would I have them taken out of my car? Obviously not.

But if it’s the one feature difference between two cars it wouldn’t be high of my list for taking one over the other.

In fact when I bought our Kia Picanto it was getting nailed on the NCAP for not having ESP compared to others and in the 7ish years I owned the car it was never missed once.

Yeah they do mark cars down for silly things like that. I mean I've not really even seen my esp light come on. I've had the tcs one come on during a heavy storm here in Feb, but it wasn't exactly going to help much anyway.

 

[Lupus]

So send her on a proper driving academy course before handing her the keys.

It will do a far better job of keeping her alive so she doesn’t get into a situation where she ever needs the electronic driving aids in the first place.

I could teach her I've done enough of them. Even with those I still feel better she's got them not. Even if it's never engaged

 

[SauRoNZA]

I could teach her I've done enough of them. Even with those I still feel better she's got them not. Even if it's never engaged

Even better!

 

[SauRoNZA]

Yeah they do mark cars down for silly things like that. I mean I've not really even seen my esp light come on. I've had the tcs one come on during a heavy storm here in Feb, but it wasn't exactly going to help much anyway.

But isn’t that exactly the type of car then where the TCS only cuts power and isn’t integrated into tue whole system because that’s what the ESP/ECS does.

That’s how it used to be in the old days, but now it’s all just one thing.

 

[Speedster]

Paid deposit on a 2025 Haval Jolion City Plus, 3600km on the clock.

The dealership is closed, so we'll finish up the deal in the new year.

 

[RedViking]

Paid deposit on a 2025 Haval Jolion City Plus, 3600km on the clock.

The dealership is closed, so we'll finish up the deal in the new year.

Always makes me wonder why someone would return an almost brand new vehicle.