Which would you pick?

[Neuk_]

yes yes

Most people are oblivious to the fact and after what is short mileage bitch and moan that the clutch pack in their dual clutch transmission need to be replaced, 'But it is an automatic!' I regularly remind my wife to put her foot completely on the brake when stopped in her Tiguan, risking my life for the life of the clutch pack.

 

[Speedster]

Tiggo 4 pro from the post :

https://twitter.com/x/status/2002989076119708156

Why is he (and you) reposting an image from early 2024? From the damage on that car it seems that it was in an accident and as part of the accident, the axle broke off. There are something like 40 000 Cherry Tiggo 4's on SA roads (if not more). If this was a problem there'd be more than 1 photo.

I don't think they're the greatest car on the planet, but pick a car brand and I'm sure I can find a pick of one of them in a bad way.

 

[Brawler]

What do you expect to break that won’t break on a Toyzuki?

• Turbo
• Hybrid systems
• Fancy auto box (DSG, CVT)
• Issues due to or with stop/start
• Electronic door handles
• Electronic mirrors
• Electronic sun roof
• Power seats
• Power tailgate
• Heated seats
• When the infotainment screen breaks, you can't do anything because its all one system as opposed to buttons
• Software issues
• Driver assistance features

This is not an exhaustive list and also not a list of things I would exclude from my next car but pick carefully and choose your battles. I.e. I would happily buy a higher displacement turbo with a traditional automatic gearbox.

My point still remains though, if you want to keep a car for long or limit your losses on a car, you do not want (all) these headaches down the line. Pick the stuff you really want/need and do your research on the model/powertrain. Saying Toyzuki as I did is actually an oversimplification as there are good and bad models in any range.

If you have got money to burn for cool tech and will ditch it in 5 years, go for it, but then I doubt this thread would exist.

 

[Speedster]

• Turbo
• Hybrid systems
• Fancy auto box (DSG, CVT)
• Issues due to or with stop/start
• Electronic door handles
• Electronic mirrors
• Electronic sun roof
• Power seats
• Power tailgate
• Heated seats
• When the infotainment screen breaks, you can't do anything because its all one system as opposed to buttons
• Software issues
• Driver assistance features

This is not an exhaustive list and also not a list of things I would exclude from my next car but pick carefully and choose your battles. I.e. I would happily buy a higher displacement turbo with a traditional automatic gearbox.

My point still remains though, if you want to keep a car for long or limit your losses on a car, you do not want these headaches down the line.

If you have got money to burn for cool tech and will ditch it in 5 years, go for it, but then I doubt this thread would exist.

You don't think a 7-year service pland and 7-year warrany mitigates at least some of these concerns?

 

[Brawler]

Why is he (and you) reposting an image from early 2024? From the damage on that car it seems that it was in an accident and as part of the accident, the axle broke off. There are something like 40 000 Cherry Tiggo 4's on SA roads (if not more). If this was a problem there'd be more than 1 photo.

I don't think they're the greatest car on the planet, but pick a car brand and I'm sure I can find a pick of one of them in a bad way.

2024 was last year? Those same cars are still for sale new.
It is not just one car in an accident btw - there were quite a few catastrophic failures on rear axle and I presume many other unreported less catastrophic.

 

[SauRoNZA]

I think it is more to do with where you buy and if you can trust the service center. Also seems like the shortage of parts is more with Haval than Chery, this seems to be more to do with parts relating to accident repairs and not with normal services

This story about parts keeps chopping and changing.

Then it’s Chery, then it’s Opel, then it’s Peugeot but not once have I heard it’s Haval until now.

Seems it’s rather a case for the brands people like the least getting stories.

 

[Brawler]

You don't think a 7-year service pland and 7-year warrany mitigates at least some of these concerns?

7 years is nothing. How about 10 or 15?

 

[SauRoNZA]

• Turbo
• Hybrid systems
• Fancy auto box (DSG, CVT)
• Issues due to or with stop/start
• Electronic door handles
• Electronic mirrors
• Electronic sun roof
• Power seats
• Power tailgate
• Heated seats
• When the infotainment screen breaks, you can't do anything because its all one system as opposed to buttons
• Software issues
• Driver assistance features

This is not an exhaustive list and also not a list of things I would exclude from my next car but pick carefully and choose your battles. I.e. I would happily buy a higher displacement turbo with a traditional automatic gearbox.

My point still remains though, if you want to keep a car for long or limit your losses on a car, you do not want (all) these headaches down the line. Pick the stuff you really want/need and do your research on the model/powertrain. Saying Toyzuki as I did is actually an oversimplification as there are good and bad models in any range.

If you have got money to burn for cool tech and will ditch it in 5 years, go for it, but then I doubt this thread would exist.

And yet people buy VW’s, Audi’s, Merc’s and BMW’s where those things break all the time but yet people keep buying them.

Turbo’s are such a standard maintenance item these days it’s not even worth a mention and yet they don’t really fail nearly as often as people seem to think.

Same with dual clutches, yes there are failures but it’s really few and far between.

The rest of your list, it just doesn’t really happen.

Hybrid systems are certainly more complex and like dual clutch boxes when it goes wrong it can be expensive but again it doesn’t really go wrong.

Also in each and every one of those failures I would love to see how the person who owned it treated the car because I put 200,000km on a Turbo DSG with all the original parts and most of the things in your list except the hybrid factor and never had issues.

Electronic things don’t just break without some human intervention. They aren’t mechanical and don’t wear with use. And it’s not the old days where something goes wrong in the wiring loom and they need to strip the car because nobody can find it.

Buying a **** car and suffering every day is not the answer to longevity you think it is, you’ll just constantly be annoyed and wished you bought the thing with the bells instead.

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

And yet people buy VW’s, Audi’s, Merc’s and BMW’s where those things break all the time but yet people keep buying them.

Turbo’s are such a standard maintenance item these days it’s not even worth a mention and yet they don’t really fail nearly as often as people seem to think.

Same with dual clutches, yes there are failures but it’s really few and far between.

The rest of your list, it just doesn’t really happen.

Hybrid systems are certainly more complex and like dual clutch boxes when it goes wrong it can be expensive but again it doesn’t really go wrong.

Also in each and every one of those failures I would love to see how the person who owned it treated the car because I put 200,000km on a Turbo DSG with all the original parts and most of the things in your list except the hybrid factor and never had issues.

Electronic things don’t just break without some human intervention. They aren’t mechanical and don’t wear with use. And it’s not the old days where something goes wrong in the wiring loom and they need to strip the car because nobody can find it.

Buying a **** car and suffering every day is not the answer to longevity you think it is, you’ll just constantly be annoyed and wished you bought the thing with the bells instead.

Well 200k km should be fine, but DSG failure or maybe just wear and tear is known and VW have moved back to more standard auto boxes and DSG more on their performance models.
VW's with DSG becomes like some BMW's, Merc's and other luxury cars when they get old. Nobody want to touch them in case of expensive repairs and then their resale value tumble.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Posted this in the Fronx thread but will post it here too.

There is the possibility that it is made at another factory. Suzuki manufactures these mainly in India but there is an Indonesian factory that supplies the Fronx for ASEAN markets which include Japan and possibly Australia.

ANCAP is very tough. Seems the main issue is that rear seatbelt failure, and rightly so. But I've seen even seat failure in our local global NCAP test for a Mazda 2 so these failures are possible in any brand.

Despite the point deductions for the seatbelt failure, the Fronx is actually safer than the 5 star Global NCAP Mahindra Scorpio N for adult occupant safety. The latter being awarded a zero star ANCAP for lack of autonomous braking.

Makes one wonder which grading agency is "enough" if global ncap/Japan NCAP can be giving a car 4/5 stars and it gets 1/0 in Aussie land.

Looking at the ANCAP tests, I am very impressed with the Japanese brands specifically the Mazda CX-5 and HR-V. Not very powerful engines (2.0 and 1.5 NA respectively), but excellent safety without the theft risk or any Chinese reliability concerns.

One definitely has to read into the details with these things.

Often they get nailed for not having TCS/ESP and then I question why you even needed it on a car that is so asthmatic in the first place you couldn’t spin it up if you tried.

Similar story with the automatic braking. It’s not really a safety feature for the occupants but rather everyone else and if you are the type of person who will turn it off anyway what does it really matter?

I had to turn the reverse auto braking off on my car because it was so intrusive just coming out of my driveway causing more **** than safety, so now I just let it beep.

 

[cr@zydude]

Posted this in the Fronx thread but will post it here too.

There is the possibility that it is made at another factory. Suzuki manufactures these mainly in India but there is an Indonesian factory that supplies the Fronx for ASEAN markets which include Japan and possibly Australia.

ANCAP is very tough. Seems the main issue is that rear seatbelt failure, and rightly so. But I've seen even seat failure in our local global NCAP test for a Mazda 2 so these failures are possible in any brand.

Despite the point deductions for the seatbelt failure, the Fronx is actually safer than the 5 star Global NCAP Mahindra Scorpio N for adult occupant safety. The latter being awarded a zero star ANCAP for lack of autonomous braking.

Makes one wonder which grading agency is "enough" if global ncap/Japan NCAP can be giving a car 4/5 stars and it gets 1/0 in Aussie land.

Looking at the ANCAP tests, I am very impressed with the Japanese brands specifically the Mazda CX-5 and HR-V. Not very powerful engines (2.0 and 1.5 NA respectively), but excellent safety without the theft risk or any Chinese reliability concerns.

The Fronx sold in Aus comes from India, same as the Fronx and Starlet Cross sold in SA.

The All-New Suzuki Fronx is Coming to Australia – Here’s Why It’s Worth the Wait | Tynan Motors

Exciting news for SUV shoppers: the long-anticipated Suzuki Fronx has been officially confirmed for Australian launch this September 2025, and you’ll be able to experience it first-hand at Tynan Su...

www.tynan.com.au

 

[zorro5614]

This story about parts keeps chopping and changing.

Then it’s Chery, then it’s Opel, then it’s Peugeot but not once have I heard it’s Haval until now.

Seems it’s rather a case for the brands people like the least getting stories.

I heard the engine parts for Haval were regularly available, but not body parts incase of an accident. But I think they did build a new local storage factory to have more parts

But yes if you read long enough, you will find issues with any car

 

[TheChamp]

2024 was last year? Those same cars are still for sale new.
It is not just one car in an accident btw - there were quite a few catastrophic failures on rear axle and I presume many other unreported less catastrophic.

The Tiggo 4 is Cheryl's best selling vehicle in SA, where are those quite a few catastrophic failures? it should be all over the news.

 

[Brawler]

And yet people buy VW’s, Audi’s, Merc’s and BMW’s where those things break all the time but yet people keep buying them.

Turbo’s are such a standard maintenance item these days it’s not even worth a mention and yet they don’t really fail nearly as often as people seem to think.

Same with dual clutches, yes there are failures but it’s really few and far between.

The rest of your list, it just doesn’t really happen.

Hybrid systems are certainly more complex and like dual clutch boxes when it goes wrong it can be expensive but again it doesn’t really go wrong.

Also in each and every one of those failures I would love to see how the person who owned it treated the car because I put 200,000km on a Turbo DSG with all the original parts and most of the things in your list except the hybrid factor and never had issues.

Electronic things don’t just break without some human intervention. They aren’t mechanical and don’t wear with use. And it’s not the old days where something goes wrong in the wiring loom and they need to strip the car because nobody can find it.

Buying a **** car and suffering every day is not the answer to longevity you think it is, you’ll just constantly be annoyed and wished you bought the thing with the bells instead.

Indeed people keep buying them. People are buying shiny cars and write off the best part of a million in less than a decade. People must be doing better than the stats suggest.

I did mention that is not a list of things I would not touch and explicitly mentioned a higher displacement turbo is fine. I think you had an old 2l turbo with lower power output? I'm more referring to the lower capability turbos that is getting it's neck wrung every time you drive to the shops.

Also happy to disagree with the rest of it. These things will eventually break as everything does eventually - even on the Suzuki. The only difference is you have quadruple the systems to fail and write off the car.

 

[Speedster]

2024 was last year? Those same cars are still for sale new.
It is not just one car in an accident btw - there were quite a few catastrophic failures on rear axle and I presume many other unreported less catastrophic.

So the catasrophe is that if you're in an accident in a Cherry the back axle might snap off?

 

[SauRoNZA]

Indeed people keep buying them. People are buying shiny cars and write off the best part of a million in less than a decade. People must be doing better than the stats suggest.

I did mention that is not a list of things I would not touch and explicitly mentioned a higher displacement turbo is fine. I think you had an old 2l turbo with lower power output? I'm more referring to the lower capability turbos that is getting it's neck wrung every time you drive to the shops.

Also happy to disagree with the rest of it. These things will eventually break as everything does eventually - even on the Suzuki. The only difference is you have quadruple the systems to fail and write off the car.

2.0T GTI so no not low power at all.

But yes I can somewhat agree with you on the 3-cylinder tiny engine jobbies with baby turbo’s, but the engines in these Chinese cars are not working that hard and most are 1.5’s which is a sweet spot.

Sure I’m not saying it’s zero risk and like you say there more there is to fail the more of a risk it is, but I still think that risk is fairly low or easily repairable.

As always it’s one of those things where you stop using the dealership soon as the warranty is over, because they’ll try to have you replace the entire seat to fix something trivial which is a single part and so on. Tale as old as time.

The day to day convenience and joy from having it all far outweighs the risk of something breaking in my view.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

7 years is nothing. How about 10 or 15?

Nobody does 15 years, no matter which car. When the 7 years is up, take out a third party warranty that covers all the big stuff, if you haven't already traded it in...

 

[SauRoNZA]

Another thing that gets me is the fuel economy narrative.

Some of it I guess is from days gone by when it was a real problem, but most of it stems from people looking at fact sheets that aren’t representative of the real world.

Then you look at actual cars on the road and similar VW SUV’s are doing 8.5-9 l/100km but nobody seems to take note because the sales pitch said it would do 6. These are all bigger cars with massive wind resistance they are never going to be great in this department across the board unless you go diesel.

And then different types of driving also make all the difference. One car does 5.5 in the city but ends up doing 9 on the open road and the next car does the exact opposite.

End of the day it doesn’t even really matter if you are getting 1 l/100 worse than the next oke if they paid a 100k more for the car.

 

[Lupus]

One definitely has to read into the details with these things.

Often they get nailed for not having TCS/ESP and then I question why you even needed it on a car that is so asthmatic in the first place you couldn’t spin it up if you tried.

Similar story with the automatic braking. It’s not really a safety feature for the occupants but rather everyone else and if you are the type of person who will turn it off anyway what does it really matter?

I had to turn the reverse auto braking off on my car because it was so intrusive just coming out of my driveway causing more **** than safety, so now I just let it beep.

Cause they help on wet roads, even if they car is asthmatic, there can still be enough power for it to lose traction on wet roads.

 

[TheChamp]

Cause they help on wet roads, even if they car is asthmatic, there can still be enough power for it to lose traction on wet roads.

Yeah, those handling tests are done at less than 80km/h, and many cars battle, even with stability and traction control, so you don't really need that much power to get into a sticky situation.