White man changes surname

[Geriatrix]

Is that racism or what?

Not necessarily. What race was your client? If he wasn't Indian, race obviously wasn't a factor. If he was Indian, maybe he felt more comfortable with communicating in his own language. Or maybe they know each other.

And how do you know that the Indian guy didn't send the client a private email with examples of work?

Or perhaps the client felt that the Indian guys' quote was more accurate, indicating an better understanding of what was wanted and expected for the particular job.

And lastly, how do you know the guy in India was not in fact black?
Stop blaming everything on race. Its a competitive world, and someone beat you to it.

 

[sungura2005]

Maybe it was racism, maybe it wasn't.

Maybe it was racism/cronyism/nationalism, maybe it wasn't. Only the buyer knows. I actually make the bulk of my money from re-works whereby somebody favours his race/country/friend/relative only to get burnt and give me the work to re-do.

 

[kilo39]

I'm a black Kenyan software developer who offers help desk support and custom-made software to customers in Kenya, the United States, and any other country that wishes to trade with me. I placed a bid at Elance, the US agency that matches buyers of services the world over with service providers the world over, but the buyer chose a bidder in India. I had the lowest bid ($500) while person who won unfairly bid $900. I have a portfolio of 9 products, all with free trial versions, while the person who won unfairly has no portfolio. I have 4 reviews from customers with an average rating of 5 (the highest possible) while person who won unfairly has only 1 rating of 4.7. Is that racism or what?

Are you implying that because your bid came from Africa another was chosen? You would need to fail a lot more bids before such a thought should enter your head? Why does it? Oh racism? Via electronic converse - how?
-

While AA/BEE in South Africa is racism by blacks, it's a necessary evil to counter racism by non-blacks. That said, I'm not a beneficiary of AA/BEE since I'm a black Kenyan, not a black South African. However, I plan to use it in future to get lucrative SA government contracts by hiring SA blacks, especially the women. Happy new year to everyone.

Is that present or past racism? (So all people of another colour are racist?)

Woman? Wrong? Use it? Excuse me did I just read that paragraph correctly?

 

[sungura2005]

Are you implying that because your bid came from Africa another was chosen? You would need to fail a lot more bids before such a thought should enter your head? Why does it? Oh racism? Via electronic converse - how?
-
Is that present or past racism? (So all people of another colour are racist?)

Woman? Wrong? Use it? Excuse me did I just read that paragraph correctly?

In the bid I highlighted, I believe I wasn't chosen because I'm from Africa. But usually when I'm not chosen in Elance, the winner is much better than me and that's why I'm bitter in this instance. For every 15 bids I make, I usually bag one and it usually comes with plenty of repeat business. By the way, you can suffer racism on the net just because of your name or your country. For example, someone abroad who has grown up watching very negative news about Afrikaners may not want to trade with them. Finally, what's wrong with me using the word "woman"?

 

[sungura2005]

Is that present or past racism? (So all people of another colour are racist?)

AA/BEE should be used to counter both past and present racism by non-blacks. Where did I say all non-black people are racist? If English is your second language, I excuse you. Secondly, according to my records, I've placed 66 bids in Elance, 26 of which were awarded to somebody (me included). Of those 26, 4 were awarded to me so that's a conversion rate of 15% (4/26). Of those 4 awarded to me, 3 have generated repeat orders. Of those 3 that have generated repeat orders, 1 of them pays me a lovely monthly retainer. But that doesn't mean there's no racism in IT.

 

[icyrus]

AA/BEE should be used to counter both past and present racism by non-blacks.

Racism is not the solution to racism.

 

[bekdik]

He's an idiot and I bet they impounded his car to try and teach him some sort of lesson. He deserved that.

So it's OK for the police to take the law into their own hands in order to Teach People Lessons????????????

This sounds like democracy to me. Not.

 

[bwana]

I'm glad they confiscated the guys car - he'd just collapsed, needed paramedics and was obviously not in any condition to drive.

 

[sungura2005]

Racism is not the solution to racism.

That's true. So we should have AA for the poor instead of AA for blacks and women.

 

[Geriatrix]

That's true. So we should have AA for the poor instead of AA for blacks and women.

Exactly, except well connected politicians and their mates would not benefit from that now would they? So that will never happen.
Never let logic get in the way of a good money making scheme.

 

[Xarog]

No, you misunderstood me. I made an example of two kids that DO NOT have an equal chance! My concern is poverty that was created by the previous regime and should be corrected by the current regime. AA is but one of the ways to aleviate such poverty. By giving preference to people that are still faced with systematic/circumstantial discrimination.

AA is a stupid way to alleviate such poverty. The proper way to do it is by giving them a good education that levels the playing field.

What I'm defending here is AA, employment and educational oportunities. I don't care about BEE which tends to put importance on ownership and board representation. The current GVT is implementing this framework from the TOP down as opposed to the bottom up. I'm totally against that. Only they and their cronies stand to benefit from this implementation.

Fair enough.

In most cases people cannot do their jobs right away. This is especially true for school leavers and graduates. As for the broken English, most non mother tongue English speaking people speak broken English anyway. It's a reflection on the status of English as a lingo franca in a diverse society. It is not an indication of ability or inability to do the job. But most job interviews are oral and are in English even though the job may not involve a lot of talking in English.

So give them a good education to solve the problem.

Affirmative Action encourages laziness and discourages hard work. If your skin colour makes you wanted for a job even when you don't have the qualifications to do the job, then really, do you think working hard is suddenly going to matter? I mean, it's not like you'd really be doing anything either.

Affirmative Action is not going to solve the poverty problem. You seem to think that the current national economic situation allows for most of the black population to enter the middle-class in place of the whites. Well, guess what? There's far more black people than white people in this country. Even if you gave every skilled job to a black person, the MAJORITY of black people would be poor, doing unskilled work and living on farms.

At best, AA is a silly program which encourages racism. At worst it's costing the country economic growth which is the one thing we REALLY need if we're going to build a country where being poor is the exception rather than the norm.

That's true. So we should have AA for the poor instead of AA for blacks and women.

I'd rather we gave them the ability (read : education) so that they don't NEED AA in order to stop being poor.

 

[Bageloo]

AA is a stupid way to alleviate such poverty. The proper way to do it is by giving them a good education that levels the playing field.


Fair enough.


So give them a good education to solve the problem.

Affirmative Action encourages laziness and discourages hard work. If your skin colour makes you wanted for a job even when you don't have the qualifications to do the job, then really, do you think working hard is suddenly going to matter? I mean, it's not like you'd really be doing anything either.

Affirmative Action is not going to solve the poverty problem. You seem to think that the current national economic situation allows for most of the black population to enter the middle-class in place of the whites. Well, guess what? There's far more black people than white people in this country. Even if you gave every skilled job to a black person, the MAJORITY of black people would be poor, doing unskilled work and living on farms.

At best, AA is a silly program which encourages racism. At worst it's costing the country economic growth which is the one thing we REALLY need if we're going to build a country where being poor is the exception rather than the norm.


I'd rather we gave them the ability (read : education) so that they don't NEED AA in order to stop being poor.

We have extensively debated this issue and I would rather not repeat myself on the same issue. Just read all my previous posts on this thread. All my arguments are thre. Also some of the arguments you are raising now have already been raised by other forumites.

 

[Jonny Two Shoes]

Simple issue....schooling in America is free. Wonder why they did that lol (bein sarcastic)

 

[sungura2005]

I'd rather we gave them the ability (read : education) so that they don't NEED AA in order to stop being poor.

But the poor in Kenya, South Africa, UK, USA, and other countries can't afford private schools and that creates an unlevel playing field since no government in the world has been able to spend more per student than the private school industry. Why? Government schools the world over are either free or dirt cheap compared to private schools so they get overwhelmed with students which means that in the labour and procurement markets, the people whose parents could afford to take them to private schools, e.g. me, have an unfair advantage. So while governments should give poor bright kids scholarships to attend any school of their choice, even better would be to "empower" their parents so that hardship at home doesn't affect learning.

 

[icyrus]

But the poor in Kenya, South Africa, UK, USA, and other countries can't afford private schools and that creates an unlevel playing field since no government in the world has been able to spend more per student than the private school industry. Why? Government schools the world over are either free or dirt cheap compared to private schools so they get overwhelmed with students which means that in the labour and procurement markets, the people whose parents could afford to take them to private schools, e.g. me, have an unfair advantage.

People with money will always have an advantage over those who don't. There is no overcoming that.

Edit: let me rephrase that. People who start out with money will have more opportunities, whether its in the choice of school they send their children or capital they give them to start a business.

 

[Xarog]

But the poor in Kenya, South Africa, UK, USA, and other countries can't afford private schools and that creates an unlevel playing field since no government in the world has been able to spend more per student than the private school industry. Why? Government schools the world over are either free or dirt cheap compared to private schools so they get overwhelmed with students which means that in the labour and procurement markets, the people whose parents could afford to take them to private schools, e.g. me, have an unfair advantage. So while governments should give poor bright kids scholarships to attend any school of their choice, even better would be to "empower" their parents so that hardship at home doesn't affect learning.

Rubbish. Everyone deserves a quality education. It is the responsibility of the government to provide this. This means that the government must be able to provide education for every child in the country. If private schools pick up some of the slack, so be it.

As for private education being of higher quality, that is debatable. It is certainly true in the current situation, but it need not be so. Education quality is not determined solely by how much it costs.

 

[Jonny Two Shoes]

Funny thing I studied Marketing (MBM degree) and got a really awesome IT job instead . Its not what you know its who you know he he

 

[sungura2005]

Rubbish. Everyone deserves a quality education. It is the responsibility of the government to provide this. This means that the government must be able to provide education for every child in the country. If private schools pick up some of the slack, so be it.

As for private education being of higher quality, that is debatable. It is certainly true in the current situation, but it need not be so. Education quality is not determined solely by how much it costs.

Regardless of the country, private schools are generally of higher quality than government ones. Unless you do some Google research and prove me wrong. Education quality is generally determined by spending per student. Note that I have emphasised the word "generally". In my country Kenya, the top primary schools are privately-owned while the top secondary schools and universities are government-owned. I don't know about SA and other countries.

 

[Geriatrix]

Regardless of the country, private schools are generally of higher quality than government ones. Unless you do some Google research and prove me wrong. Education quality is generally determined by spending per student. Note that I have emphasised the word "generally". In my country Kenya, the top primary schools are privately-owned while the top secondary schools and universities are government-owned. I don't know about SA and other countries.

In my opinion, private school do better because of more money, yes, but they also have the advantage of smaller classes, the ability to make quicker decisions(less government red tape and interference) for the benefit of the students and because the parents pay so much, more accountability and responsibly.

 

[Xarog]

So why not get government to match the amount, school for school, that the average private school gets? What will the results be then? Seems like a wise investment to me.