White man changes surname

[Geriatrix]

So why not get government to match the amount, school for school, that the average private school gets? What will the results be then? Seems like a wise investment to me.

Throwing money at a problem doesn't really help, thats an urban myth.
You have to use said money with a coherently thought out plan(made with clearly chosen goals and with a clear, efficient and logical plan of action to reach said goals) unique to each schools separate challenges and circumstances. Layers upon layers of managers, middle managers, ministers, party policy makers, middle men and eduction "consultants" hundreds of kilometers away will virtually never be able to do that.

And actually spending money on quality teachers, school facilities and development programs? Do you have any idea how much that would cost? How would they pay the BMWs, holiday expenses, massive salaries, excessive bonuses and air travel fees? Not to mention the lucrative contracts they have to pay their famil.. uh, contractors.

And please don't make this an ANC or race thing, its the problem with governments all over the world. Look at the UK and US, their public schools also suck. Our government just seems to get away with it easier and care less about being caught.

 

[sungura2005]

So why not get government to match the amount, school for school, that the average private school gets? What will the results be then? Seems like a wise investment to me.

It's very easy for voters to think that governments are swimming in cash. The fact is they're not. For example, the SA government spends $70.62bn (R494.34bn) annually according to the World Factbook by CIA.

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sf.html

Divide that figure by 44m people and you have R936.25 per person per month. That's supposed to pay for education, healthcare, roads, security, etc. So that's why private schools will always be able to spend more per student than government schools. But they aren't necessarily better. As I said earlier, private primary schools in Kenya are much better than government primary schools but government secondary schools and universities are much better than the private ones. I don't know about SA and other countries.

 

[kilo39]

@ sungura: It's not 44M people. It is people of school going age, ie probably less than half the total population <44M.

Also it is not a question of the amount of money budgeted it simply seems there is little result with massive "misspends." Who knows where that massive budget is going because it certainly doesn't seem to be going to schools.

Also it is not just the education budget: it is connected programs, for instance infrastructure upgrades which never happen due to corruption and "misspends/mismanagement."

 

[sungura2005]

Funny thing I studied Marketing (MBM degree) and got a really awesome IT job instead . Its not what you know its who you know he he

I'm a techie but I believe that marketers should be paid much more than techies since they have less job security (bring in sales or get lost) and selling requires you to be emotionally strong since there's plenty of rejection. You definitely deserve your job but it's very insecure.

 

[sungura2005]

@ sungura: It's not 44M people. It is people of school going age, ie probably less than half the total population <44M.

Also it is not a question of the amount of money budgeted it simply seems there is little result with massive "misspends." Who knows where that massive budget is going because it certainly doesn't seem to be going to schools.

Also it is not just the education budget: it is connected programs, for instance infrastructure upgrades which never happen due to corruption and "misspends/mismanagement."

That's true. Too much money is spent on the bureaucracy and very little on classrooms, teachers, books, and other essentials. But despite rampant corruption in my country Kenya, government secondary schools and universities still produce better graduates than private schools and I think I know why. A school that has historically done well will attract brainies while a school that has historically done poorly will be stuck with the non-brainies. So pumping more taxpayer money won't produce worthwhile results in a school whose intake consists of non-brainies. But if a school produces future millionaire sportsmen instead of future surgeons, it'll still be popular. The schools that might never take off are those that are historically lousy in both sports and academics, no matter how much taxpayer money is pumped into them. That's my 2 cents.

 

[sungura2005]

Throwing money at a problem doesn't really help, thats an urban myth.
You have to use said money with a coherently thought out plan(made with clearly chosen goals and with a clear, efficient and logical plan of action to reach said goals) unique to each schools separate challenges and circumstances. Layers upon layers of managers, middle managers, ministers, party policy makers, middle men and eduction "consultants" hundreds of kilometers away will virtually never be able to do that.

And actually spending money on quality teachers, school facilities and development programs? Do you have any idea how much that would cost? How would they pay the BMWs, holiday expenses, massive salaries, excessive bonuses and air travel fees? Not to mention the lucrative contracts they have to pay their famil.. uh, contractors.

And please don't make this an ANC or race thing, its the problem with governments all over the world. Look at the UK and US, their public schools also suck. Our government just seems to get away with it easier and care less about being caught.

See post #165

 

[Geriatrix]

That's true. Too much money is spent on the bureaucracy and very little on classrooms, teachers, books, and other essentials. But despite rampant corruption in my country Kenya, government secondary schools and universities still produce better graduates than private schools and I think I know why. A school that has historically done well will attract brainies while a school that has historically done poorly will be stuck with the non-brainies. So pumping more taxpayer money won't produce worthwhile results in a school whose intake consists of non-brainies. But if a school produces future millionaire sportsmen instead of future surgeons, it'll still be popular. The schools that might never take off are those that are historically lousy in both sports and academics, no matter how much taxpayer money is pumped into them. That's my 2 cents.

Uh, no I'm sorry but thats BS. Because you are in fact saying that poor people are inherently stupid and richer people are smarter.
Educated people are not born that way, they are taught and trained.

If we believe your assumption we could conclude that you're saying white kids are smarter than black kids because statistically more white kids pass high school compared to black kids in this country. And that is BS.

No. Developing a properly funded, well run and carefully planned education system would vastly increase the amount of smart, educated and genius people in a country. And said country would flourish in economics, science and the arts.

 

[kilo39]

That's true. Too much money is spent on the bureaucracy and very little on classrooms, teachers, books, and other essentials.

But this is not it sungura: bureaucracy does not include excessive salaries, new bmw's, corrupt contracts, etc. The Auditor General has consistently found problems in all departments. If money was going on the things it was supposed to be going on then all the people would be so much further along. This is not the case. Instead we have children taught under trees with no running water, no sanitation and no electricity. Unacceptable and nothing to do with "bureaucracy."

But despite rampant corruption in my country Kenya, government secondary schools and universities still produce better graduates than private schools and I think I know why.

Personally I believe this is a belief system: good teachers. Their belief in themselves that they will do their jobs, perform no matter the failings of their government. Unfortunately this is not the scenario here where we have teachers making underage girls pregnant, teachers not arriving on time or at all. Teachers not getting paid for months and years. Etc. Etc. This government (and their minions) are a scourge on the land. I envy you in Kenya.

A school that has historically done well will attract brainies while a school that has historically done poorly will be stuck with the non-brainies.

No, I don't believe brains are issued in a preferential way. It all comes down to personal belief systems, and all those other things: good parenting, upbringing: the transmission of values. Belief in ones self and ones own.

So pumping more taxpayer money won't produce worthwhile results in a school whose intake consists of non-brainies. But if a school produces future millionaire sportsmen instead of future surgeons, it'll still be popular. The schools that might never take off are those that are historically lousy in both sports and academics, no matter how much taxpayer money is pumped into them. That's my 2 cents.

No, belief breeds belief. Good practises yield good results. Etc.

 

[mancombseepgood]

Someone disagrees with you!

Uh, no I'm sorry but thats BS. Because you are in fact saying that poor people are inherently stupid and richer people are smarter.
Educated people are not born that way, they are taught and trained.

If we believe your assumption we could conclude that you're saying white kids are smarter than black kids because statistically more white kids pass high school compared to black kids in this country. And that is BS.

No. Developing a properly funded, well run and carefully planned education system would vastly increase the amount of smart, educated and genius people in a country. And said country would flourish in economics, science and the arts.

CHECK IT OUT!http://www.bizcommunity.com/PressOffice/PressRelease.aspx?i=352&ai=9728
If this isn't offensive, then nothing is!

 

[Geriatrix]

http://www.bizcommunity.com/PressOffice/PressRelease.aspx?i=352&ai=9728
If this isn't offensive, then nothing is!

Hmm, right. But maybe thats just clever marketing .
Think about it.That magazine will probably attract some wannabes as well. Lots of potential credit card ad space to help those wannabes maintain their lifestyles. And some top dollar ad space for those luxury items arrogant, rich people will want to prove their richness and importance. Its probably the perfect niche magazine for high paying ads!

 

[mancombseepgood]

For those with money and brains, not the poor and stupid.

 

[Jonny Two Shoes]

I'm a techie but I believe that marketers should be paid much more than techies since they have less job security (bring in sales or get lost) and selling requires you to be emotionally strong since there's plenty of rejection. You definitely deserve your job but it's very insecure.

I hear you on that however I truly find more interest in IT than Marketing plus this is an international company and job security seems to be in pretty good nick here. I am also not one who tries to barter and "hard sell" and be on top and all that so my degree really only taught me one thing :/ this is not for me!!!! lol. Possibly market research would be ok but other than that Im happy with IT and MIS

 

[Bageloo]

I hear you on that however I truly find more interest in IT than Marketing plus this is an international company and job security seems to be in pretty good nick here. I am also not one who tries to barter and "hard sell" and be on top and all that so my degree really only taught me one thing :/ this is not for me!!!! lol. Possibly market research would be ok but other than that Im happy with IT and MIS

I'm in IT and want to move to the business side of things. I see those guys making big bucks in terms of their bonuses...For IT it's always about the operating budget!

 

[sungura2005]

Uh, no I'm sorry but thats BS. Because you are in fact saying that poor people are inherently stupid and richer people are smarter.
Educated people are not born that way, they are taught and trained.

If we believe your assumption we could conclude that you're saying white kids are smarter than black kids because statistically more white kids pass high school compared to black kids in this country. And that is BS.

No. Developing a properly funded, well run and carefully planned education system would vastly increase the amount of smart, educated and genius people in a country. And said country would flourish in economics, science and the arts.

Where did I say that poor people are inherently stupid while rich people are inherently smarter? I just said some schools do well despite being government-owned and poorly-funded since they admit only bright kids while others do poorly despite being privately-owned and well-funded since they admit non-bright kids. The schools that admit only bright kids are able to do so since they have a history of academic excellence. While all kids should be have their education adequately-funded by the government, those that are outstanding in academics or sports should be put in special schools to fast-track them. The special schools should of course be much better funded than the ordinary ones. And about white kids getting better grades than black ones. So what? I'm black and clever and that's all that matters.

 

[sungura2005]

CHECK IT OUT!http://www.bizcommunity.com/PressOffice/PressRelease.aspx?i=352&ai=9728
If this isn't offensive, then nothing is!

What's so offensive about the ad? The pitch is controversial and that's the whole idea. They want people not to ignore it.

 

[sungura2005]

I'm in IT and want to move to the business side of things. I see those guys making big bucks in terms of their bonuses...For IT it's always about the operating budget!

Business is very stressful and that's why the boss of a multi-billion dollar company makes much more than the IT guys. Some of my friends make boatloads but they literally live in the office. You begin to ask yourself whether it's worth it.

 

[sungura2005]

I hear you on that however I truly find more interest in IT than Marketing plus this is an international company and job security seems to be in pretty good nick here. I am also not one who tries to barter and "hard sell" and be on top and all that so my degree really only taught me one thing :/ this is not for me!!!! lol. Possibly market research would be ok but other than that Im happy with IT and MIS

You sound like a young freshly-minted graduate. Don't worry, over time you'll figure out what to do. For now, just party (without ruining your work) and stay safe.

 

[mancombseepgood]

Ja

What's so offensive about the ad? The pitch is controversial and that's the whole idea. They want people not to ignore it.

I guess you don't feel it unless you are one of the poor that they mock.