Why ever did i chose winblows 10

[CataclysmZA]

it could be absolutely perfect and they would still scream and shout and write micro$oft, winblows or windoze or make up crap like it's used for secret data mining...

Actually, I was testing alpha and beta builds of Windows 7, and the feedback forum for that program was only filled with positivity. Everyone loved that it wasn't Vista, and negativity wasn't generating daily rant threads. The powerlessness people feel as a result of using Windows 8.1 and 10 is what drives all that negative opinion on Reddit and the Insider Program, and I'm wont to agree with most of that sentiment.

 

[R4ziel]

The powerlessness people feel as a result of using Windows 8.1 and 10.

I must be doing something seriously wrong then, I do not by any means feel powerless when using my windows, I update it when updates are due and it runs like a charm on both gaming pc's, my media center and my work laptop. No idea what all the fuss is about

 

[CataclysmZA]

I must be doing something seriously wrong then, I do not by any means feel powerless when using my windows, I update it when updates are due and it runs like a charm on both gaming pc's, my media center and my work laptop.

You know what you're doing. You understand the process. The average consumer making use of Windows 10 does not, and there are a lot of professionals using Windows 10 for things like machine learning having to risk losing hours of work when an update is forced on them at the end of a simulation or render, and they're not an administrator who can bypass it.

No idea what all the fuss is about

In previous Windows versions, automatic updates could be postponed at the last minute by an additional 24 hours if you weren't ready for a reboot. Windows 7 and 8 respected that people were using their PCs in different ways and at odd hours, and didn't force updates on them regardless of their current workload. Windows 10 ignores that, and gives you a much smaller window of opportunity to stop and save what progress you can before the mandatory update. Add in the "active hours" setting, which is a rather dumb idea, and it's no wonder people are asking for more control over the devices they've paid for: https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/8knjm5/microsoft_please/

I even know server admins who loathe the new update schedule. Keeping machines up to date is a whole new ballgame compared to Windows 7/8.

 

[RedViking]

Updates can be controlled on Windows 10 and can be switched off completely.

 

[R4ziel]

You know what you're doing. You understand the process. The average consumer making use of Windows 10 does not, and there are a lot of professionals using Windows 10 for things like machine learning having to risk losing hours of work when an update is forced on them at the end of a simulation or render, and they're not an administrator who can bypass it.



In previous Windows versions, automatic updates could be postponed at the last minute by an additional 24 hours if you weren't ready for a reboot. Windows 7 and 8 respected that people were using their PCs in different ways and at odd hours, and didn't force updates on them regardless of their current workload. Windows 10 ignores that, and gives you a much smaller window of opportunity to stop and save what progress you can before the mandatory update. Add in the "active hours" setting, which is a rather dumb idea, and it's no wonder people are asking for more control over the devices they've paid for: https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/8knjm5/microsoft_please/

I even know server admins who loathe the new update schedule. Keeping machines up to date is a whole new ballgame compared to Windows 7/8.

Okay yeah I understand the update problems, as I have that at many clients. However, calling it winbloze 10 or the worst windows ever, just because you don't like the update schedule is a bit over the top methinks.

You can easily disable automatic updates by disabling the windows update service, I have a client who does design work and can't afford auto restarts. So its a bit more of a manual deployment using WSUS, but its not impossible to get around. Hell, google "Disable windows 10 automatic updates" and even on page 10 you'll still find relative results

 

[CataclysmZA]

Updates can be controlled on Windows 10 and can be switched off completely.

If you own your computer and you're also the administrator, great. That's completely within your power. If you aren't the admin, and you don't own it, and it's also in a work environment, you don't get to control the update schedule to suit your workflow.

You can easily disable automatic updates by disabling the windows update service, I have a client who does design work and can't afford auto restarts. So its a bit more of a manual deployment using WSUS, but its not impossible to get around. Hell, google "Disable windows 10 automatic updates" and even on page 10 you'll still find relative results

See my point above. You're right, but this changes if you're using a PC in a work environment.

 

[RedViking]

If you own your computer and you're also the administrator, great. That's completely within your power. If you aren't the admin, and you don't own it, and it's also in a work environment, you don't get to control the update schedule to suit your workflow.



See my point above. You're right, but this changes if you're using a PC in a work environment.

Then the problem is your network administrator and not Windows 10. It's like blaming Telkom that you can't go on Facebook because your admin restricted your IP from accessing some websites... Uhm okay.

 

[R4ziel]

If you own your computer and you're also the administrator, great. That's completely within your power. If you aren't the admin, and you don't own it, and it's also in a work environment, you don't get to control the update schedule to suit your workflow.



See my point above. You're right, but this changes if you're using a PC in a work environment.

Yeah I get that. But most people complaining about Windows updates aren't in a corporate environment, its their personal PC's that they can't stop updates, but its easier to complain about than to find a solution.

If you have a problem with a corporate PC on a domain, don't expect Microsoft to tell your Administrator he sucks. Your corporate company PC can be better managed with GPO's than with manual control of the OS when you own it, so that is a different discussion all in it's own

 

[sajunky]

Yeah I get that. But most people complaining about Windows updates aren't in a corporate environment, its their personal PC's that they can't stop updates, but its easier to complain about than to find a solution.

Most of people use Home version and they cannot stop updates. They are solution on the Web, most of them are just copy-pasted from previous versions, very misleading. Don't tell me about disabling services. They are negatives of disabling services. At some moment you have to enable it to update specific components or apps (or they are getting self-enabled!) and you are getting a big mess in the worst moment.

Pro version users are more happy, but since the version 1607 even the group policy settings became provisional (not a mandatory), and now decision to update the computer depends on Microsoft servers. When I posted my experience of ignoring GP settings the first time, Microsoft moles called me an "uneducated lier". Today they keep quiet, as they learned I was right.

And don't forget about Defender's updating itself and its "virus definition file". It is actually an executable code (java script-like) running in NT System authority, now (since the Creators version) being integrated with MS 'Telemetry', a spying and bitcoin mining engine. It is a hudge security risk in frequently updating a code running in the highest priviledge.

 

[Geoff.D]

One positive about sajunky is he is 100% consistent when it comes to Windows. ......

Yes those with Windows 10 Home have limited control, BUT even then you can still control the update process.
Windows 10 Pro provides you with plenty of control and GP still works, BUT you have to review what you think you know about GP.


I maintain 43 PCs (all running Windows 10 Pro) at the moment. NONE of those standalone PCs have ANY issues with unexpected updates. NONE of the users experience ANY unexpected restarts. NONE of the users get updates out of the blue. They are ALL fully in control of the update process. ALL of those users are NOT Windows experts and ALL of them follow the routine I have set up for them. I undertake ALL major updates when required, and in between, they are able to handle any minor updates should the need arise.

NONE of those users sign on with a Windows account. ALL of the them make use of a local account. The computers are a mix of laptops and desktops. ALL of them are more than 5 years' old and NONE have had any issues running Win 10. ALL of them are on the latest version. And most of them do not have the luxury of a always on Internet connection. Virtually all of them have to control their data usage pretty tightly.

And no, even in a corporate environment where certain things are handled centrally by the IT department, you can still ensure updates and restarts do not affect your work. It all depends on the relationship between the user and the IT personnel.

And no, most of us are not MS moles, just ordinary persons who have taken the trouble to RTFM and make sure we understand how the OS works .....

 

[R4ziel]

I still don't really know what the fuss is to be perfectly honest. Iv'e not had one single update on my laptop and Desktop at home auto restart my PC, its annoying that it prompts you every day, but then you can make time and get it updated. I think the people complaining about the update process just needs something to complain about, but that's just how I feel about it.

Maybe I'm not seeing the problem, but to me it seems like a storm in a teacup *Shrugs*

 

[CataclysmZA]

Then the problem is your network administrator and not Windows 10. It's like blaming Telkom that you can't go on Facebook because your admin restricted your IP from accessing some websites... Uhm okay.

If you have a problem with a corporate PC on a domain, don't expect Microsoft to tell your Administrator he sucks. Your corporate company PC can be better managed with GPO's than with manual control of the OS when you own it, so that is a different discussion all in it's own

It's not the fact that there's an issue with it being on a managed network, it's because the users themselves don't have any say in the upgrade/update process. IT admins can't account for every use case and they can't always accommodate a specific workflow that may mean a critical update doesn't get applied to one or more machines at a time - policy dictates when and how the machines will receive updates, and the users have no control over the updating process. But that's normal in those environments anyway.

If you aren't the admin, and you don't own it, and it's also in a work environment, you don't get to control the update schedule to suit your workflow.

Windows 10 Home users have some workarounds, but they don't always function correctly because Microsoft doesn't want them to fall behind on updates. Windows 10 Pro users have more control, but things need to be set up beforehand to work around any automatic updates that might be applied in the middle of running a workload that runs outside of your active hours settings.

Microsoft gives Pro users some control through the Pause Updates feature (delaying the installation of updates for up to 35 days), and in the ability to choose which Semi-Annual Channel branch you want to be on to receive feature updates. But let's say you run a particle physics simulation that may take 30 days to complete. You pause the updates, but the program crashes ten days into the workload. Before you fix the problem and restart the simulation, you need to remember to unpause updates, have the system check, download, and apply any pending updates, and then pause them again before restarting the simulation. And if you wanted to only apply security updates, but not feature updates during that time because you don't know what might change with feature updates, you need to configure settings to delay feature updates for up to 30 days.

With Windows 7 and 8, you can just change the settings to allow updates to be checked, but not downloaded or installed, you can review the security updates yourself, and the OS honours the settings you chose and doesn't try to re-enable everything 35 days later. You can set it and forget it, and update on a schedule that suits you and your workflow - something that's ultimately lost in Windows 10.

 

[R4ziel]

But let's say you run a particle physics simulation that may take 30 days to complete. You pause the updates, but the program crashes ten days in to the workload. Before you fix the problem and restart the simulation, you need to remember to unpause updates, have the system check, download, and apply any pending updates, and then pause them again before restarting the simulation. .

Wow I didn't realize how big the problem is. How the hell could Microsoft do this to people! We need to seriously stand up for the millions of people doing 30 day particle simulations on Windows PC's. I have lost absolutely all my trust in Microsoft after reading this.

I'm sure if you have a company that runs anything that takes 30 days you would have proper PC's and much more importantly very good IT support that would be able to disable the
updates. I support some high end environments (nothing that runs 30 days long) and updates are not an issue for any of the clients

 

[RedViking]

Windows biggest issue is between the OS and the Chair.

 

[CataclysmZA]

Wow I didn't realize how big the problem is. How the hell could Microsoft do this to people! We need to seriously stand up for the millions of people doing 30 day particle simulations on Windows PC's. I have lost absolutely all my trust in Microsoft after reading this.

I'm sure if you have a company that runs anything that takes 30 days you would have proper PC's and much more importantly very good IT support that would be able to disable the
updates. I support some high end environments (nothing that runs 30 days long) and updates are not an issue for any of the clients

Being patronising doesn't make your point more valid than mine. I've offered an example of where Microsoft's chosen policies aren't workable for some people, and I've seen posts online in the various Windows subreddits, Discord chats, and forums on the net where there are people who fall in to the niches where these policies aren't compatible with their workflows.

I'm sure your users in the environments that you support are perfectly happy with the update schedule and don't have any major complaints because you offer good support for them in the event that they run into issues. My point is that:

A) The end-user no longer owns the process of updating their personal computers outside of a work environment (they have to shift their schedule to suit the update process, not the other way around).

B) Microsoft's blanket policies can be worked around, but you need to remember to set things up in a particular way first to avoid being affected by them.

 

[R4ziel]

A) The end-user no longer owns the process of updating their personal computers outside of a work environment (they have to shift their schedule to suit the update process, not the other way around).

B) Microsoft's blanket policies can be worked around, but you need to remember to set things up in a particular way first to avoid being affected by them.

I didn't mean to come across as attacking you. Apologies if that was the case.

I understand that there are issues with Windows, yes. I don't agree with everything they did either but everyone is making it sound like Microsoft offended them personally with Windows 10 and its the worst thing to happen to humanity since Nickelback, when in fact its the best Windows (in my opinion) in terms of running software and hardware support.

 

[sajunky]

when in fact its the best Windows (in my opinion) in terms of running software and hardware support.

The worst Windows ever due to the arrogant MS attitude to the customers.

 

[sajunky]

And no, most of us are not MS moles,

We know who are MS moles. See [MENTION=64118]Dave[/MENTION] posts in this thread by example. It shows when they attack a messenger, not even touching merits.

Do you do that? You don't, so you are not a suspect.

 

[Dave]

The worst Windows ever due to the arrogant MS attitude to the customers.

If you weren't trying to break in to MS head office the guards wouldn't have had to have such an arrogant attitude with you.

 

[Dave]

We know who are MS moles. See [MENTION=64118]Dave[/MENTION] posts in this thread by example. It shows when they attack a messenger, not even touching merits.

Do you do that? You don't, so you are not a suspect.

Just because people ridicule some of the mad mangled things you try and say doesn't make anyone a MS mole.