cerebus
Honorary Master
An act from which you derive pleasure isn't necessarily selfish, just because it's pleasurable. It's selfish IF it excludes consideration of others.
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Why have kids?
- Thread starter satanboy
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murraybiscuit
Executive Member
okay, let's use some terminology here:
perhaps "selfishness" could be better replaced by one of these terms: egotism/narcissim(delusional self-importance) or egoism(appropriate self-interest)
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
interesting that you should have such a nietzschean perspective.
i sometimes wonder if people don't also adopt religion for this purpose?
/ducks gary's flames ow wrath
You misunderstand me. I purposely left religion out of this thread because it would prove too much of a distraction, but certainly for many of us there is great religious purpose involved in all of this... but it is not the sole motivation. I can appreciate that for many people they find enjoyment in life even without any necessary religious motivations.
If religion is simply a tool to a person, then they have got the wrong end of the stick... the dangerous end.
Lets just keep it to the perceived and obvious benefits to having children.
Yes, they are very experiential and personal, but benefits nonetheless.
Necuno
Court Jester
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seems that one haz to have kids to enjoy live, teach someone and then make up for your parent's faults. at worse someone who can take care of you
murraybiscuit
Executive Member
i think you're obscuring the intent to initiate the act with your intent toward its consequences.
his point is that your children did not ask to be born, hence it was purely a "selfish" decision.
i don't think he's questioning your integrity as a parent. you seem to be a pretty good one
satanboy
Psychonaut seven
perhaps we are getting off topic here.
I don't want to attack anyone for their life choices...I just want to understand the reasoning. Sheesh...
satanboy
Psychonaut seven
i think you're obscuring the intent to initiate the act with your intent toward its consequences.
his point is that your children did not ask to be born, hence it was purely a "selfish" decision.
i don't think he's questioning your integrity as a parent. you seem to be a pretty good one
Great point there!
TheHiveMind
Banned
So it is a selfish thing...you want to bring more people into an overpopulated planet just so that you can have MORE love, joy and friendship. This is not an attack on you, just an observation.
I find that my partner gives me more than enough love and friendship.
Your kids would probably be middle class, well educated, they would almost certainly be supporters of population control to reduce poverty and over population. You not having kids has no impact on the birthrate among the poor.
The same logic can be applied to anything. Why have a wife or even a girlfriend?
There is personal gain from any life experience. Kids bring with them a set of "meanings" perhaps more weighty than anything you can experience. Obviously its about giving yourself joy and fullness of life and experience, but its also about passing exactly those things on.
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murraybiscuit
Executive Member
yeah, i'd agree with the concept of procreation as reciprocity.
cerebus
Honorary Master
I think you're confusing 'selfishness' with 'giving pleasure'.
satanboy
Psychonaut seven
cerebus
Honorary Master
Reciprocal in what sense? If you don't think having children involves a reciprocal love, you haven't been around many happy families. Or reciprocal as a decision? Which I'd say is irrelevant - how many people honestly wish they had never been born? If you do, then suicide not vasectomy is the better choice.
satanboy
Psychonaut seven
Yes, haven't you heard lots of people say just that? "I wish I was never born." and then they commit suicide? I know I have.
cerebus
Honorary Master
Some, yes.... a tiny majority of people. I hope you aren't putting it forwards as a rationale.
ufis
Banned for trolling & disrupting the forum
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I need someone to mow the lawn and wash the dishes.
Jokes aside, I think Garyvdh has said it all already.
Can I have your computer?
When I read the first post, I thought: Gosh, I must have posted this. Did I do it in my sleep? Though I think it might have been more accurate to ask: why decide to have the first one, when you have no experience of parenthood? (If the first is a joyful experience, it's easier to understand wanting to have another, or trying again if it wasn't.)
I've often wondered about the same things, especially since I've heard quite a few (good) parents say that although they love their kids more than anything, if they could make the choice again, they wouldn't have kids. This may just be due to the whole "greener grass on the other side of the fence" thing though, since I'm sure there are childfree couples who also think they would choose differently.
In my opinion if you do want to see a little person grow into a well-balanced adult, rather adopt one that's already there. I do have a friend who says that he wouldn't consider adopting since "you don't know what you'll get", but I've never understood this - isn't that the case with every baby anyway?
Anyway, there are as many reasons to have them as there are not to have them... Some more valid than others (for instance, to save a marriage or because "everybody does" - both a terrible mistake in my opinion).
I believe that people generally don't make a *logical* decision to have kids - they tend to do it based on their feelings. (This is probably why your friends couldn't answer - they might not be as adept at putting feelings into words as some of the mybb forumites.)
Though I think it might have been more accurate to ask: why decide to have the first one, when you have no experience of parenthood? (If the first is a joyful experience, it's easier to understand wanting to have another, or trying again if it wasn't.)I've often wondered about the same things, especially since I've heard quite a few (good) parents say that although they love their kids more than anything, if they could make the choice again, they wouldn't have kids. This may just be due to the whole "greener grass on the other side of the fence" thing though, since I'm sure there are childfree couples who also think they would choose differently.
In my opinion if you do want to see a little person grow into a well-balanced adult, rather adopt one that's already there. I do have a friend who says that he wouldn't consider adopting since "you don't know what you'll get", but I've never understood this - isn't that the case with every baby anyway?
Anyway, there are as many reasons to have them as there are not to have them... Some more valid than others (for instance, to save a marriage or because "everybody does" - both a terrible mistake in my opinion).
I believe that people generally don't make a *logical* decision to have kids - they tend to do it based on their feelings. (This is probably why your friends couldn't answer - they might not be as adept at putting feelings into words as some of the mybb forumites.)
Necuno
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so
having children is being alive ?
having children is enjoying life ?
and
one can't be alive without children ?
one can't enjoy life without children ?
i'm quite happy with life as it is and actually do enjoy it, but why have children ?
so far it seems that you should have children when :
you want to enjoy life.
feel alive.
be alive.
make good on what your parents did wrong.
get enjoyment out of it.
teach someone something good.
have someone to look after you.
<insert> to be/have <insert>.
i would wonder... would you say the same things if you had to adopt children over getting them naturally...
cerebus
Honorary Master
We have good friends who can't have children, so they are fostering some other babies with a view to adoption. I don't see how it differs in any material way. For them it's a way to extend their love and their strong desire to care for another life. Anyone would first prefer to have their own I would think.