Windows 8: one step forward, two steps back (Column)

Pilgrim

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Andrew is a qualified systems engineer and software developer; an avid open source enthusiast; and a keen follower of the information and technology sector.
I will take his review with a ton of salt then, thanks.
 

Arthur

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With phrases like "Microsoft is clearly oblivious to the advantages of user freedom" the "reviewer" is talking through his hat. Win8 enhances user freedom. Regular Desktop a la Win7, plus Metro-style. And enhances performance, manageability, security, ease of app development. All in a smaller footprint. Chuckle.
 

The_Unbeliever

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With phrases like "Microsoft is clearly oblivious to the advantages of user freedom" the "reviewer" is talking through his hat. Win8 enhances user freedom. Regular Desktop a la Win7, plus Metro-style. And enhances performance, manageability, security, ease of app development. All in a smaller footprint. Chuckle.
Then explain what secure boot is all about. This is clearly aimed at locking Linux (and other alternative OS'es) out.

Microsoft haven't changed their spots.
 

ToxicBunny

Oi! Leave me out of this...
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Sorry libs, normally I agree with you but for once I'm fully on MS's side.

Secure boot is a wonderful little concept.... it allows the machine to be able to protect itself from all kinds of Malware etc etc..

Its not about locking out Linux or anything of the sort, its about providing the OS the ability to protect itself from attacks.
 

Arthur

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Then explain what secure boot is all about. This is clearly aimed at locking Linux (and other alternative OS'es) out.
Don't be so paranoid. It doesn't lock out Linux. Do some research. It's what customers have been asking for years. Better security.
 

MightyMuffinMan

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Sigh, "secure boot" is meant to prevent virus access but won't prevent you from installing your own OS. It meant more a as a business product/feature.
 

Nod

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Source: http://arstechnica.com/business/new...ecure-boot-will-complicate-linux-installs.ars
Besides disabling the Windows 8 secure boot process, another option for Linux lovers is installing a signed version of Linux. But “this poses several problems,” Garrett notes. “Firstly, we'd need a non-GPL bootloader. Grub 2 is released under the GPLv3, which explicitly requires that we provide the signing keys. Grub is under GPLv2 which lacks the explicit requirement for keys, but it could be argued that the requirement for the scripts used to control compilation includes that. It's a grey area, and exploiting it would be a pretty good show of bad faith. Secondly, in the near future the design of the kernel will mean that the kernel itself is part of the bootloader. This means that kernels will also have to be signed. Making it impossible for users or developers to build their own kernels is not practical. Finally, if we self-sign, it's still necessary to get our keys included by every OEM.”

Current machines dual-booting Windows 7 and Linux should be able to upgrade to Windows 8 without wiping out the Linux install. As Microsoft notes in the Building Windows 8 blog, “We will continue to support the legacy BIOS interface.” However, machines using UEFI instead of BIOS “will have significantly richer capabilities” including faster boot times and greater security.

Ultimately, the Windows 8 changes aren’t likely to wipe out Linux dual-boot scenarios, but they could restrict the types of hardware that will allow them. PC users who would boot two operating systems tend to be highly technical, though, so we expect they’ll find the necessary workarounds.
So not really a non-issue. You will have to know which type of BIOS your new toy uses, especially if it comes preinstalled with Win8.
 

grok

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Where you were once allowed to download and install anything your heart desired, you are now forced to download metro apps from Microsoft’s Windows Store.
Looking forward to a quick jailbreak and Cydia for Win8 then ..
 

recre8

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Andrew is a qualified systems engineer and software developer; an avid open source enthusiast; and a keen follower of the information and technology sector.
Not surprised at the negative review then. Its such a pity that open source supporters more than often can only look at the negative and completely disregard any cool new features in a commercial operating system. That and they always to tend to refer to Microsoft as M$

As for the Secure Boot thing, it is taken completely out of context. The concept of a BIOS is archaic (as in around from the 70's and seriously hampering innovation in PCs) and has been replaced with EFI (Extensible Firmware Interface), something which Apple has used in their machines since the switch to Intel. EFI is now being superseded by UEFI (Unified EFI) which by default requires an operating system to be trusted by providing a certificate signed by a well known certificate authority (i.e. Verisign or Thawte - ironic isn't it - Shuttleworth's old company is killing his new OS). So your linux distribution will have to be signed with a certificate in future to boot.

That being said, it really has nothing to do with Microsoft. For a manufacturer to add the "Designed for Windows 8" sticker, the computer must support UEFI. And even then, users are likely to have the ability to switch off the secure boot option should they wish to install a low-cost OS.

http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2011/09/windows-8-secure-boot-will-complicate-linux-installs.ars.

As for the DRM, I haven't really noticed it. Certainly doesn't impact me at all.

Android has shown the world that an open approach isn’t just an ideal, it’s a fundamental requirement for the success of a modern operating system.
Would someone mind explaining that to me? Windows 7 is a modern operating system and it doesn't have a shadow of an open approach to it. Still seems quite successful though.

Must admit, I was a bit disappointed in the misleading manner the article was written. If anything, Secure Boot indicates a fundemental flaw in the open source software idea: no money to buy a certificate and keep up with the times.

As for MyBroadband, I would hope that you check facts before publishing such an article on your front page in future. Kind of embarrassing.
 
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recre8

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With phrases like "Microsoft is clearly oblivious to the advantages of user freedom" the "reviewer" is talking through his hat. Win8 enhances user freedom. Regular Desktop a la Win7, plus Metro-style. And enhances performance, manageability, security, ease of app development. All in a smaller footprint. Chuckle.
Agree. On Linux, user freedom comes in the form of a text editor, thousands of config files, man pages, internet searches resulting in posts with smug "how could you not know that" responses, compiling your own applications from source code as a manner of "installation", and a number of MyBroadband users which are about to crucify me for saying this and telling me that there is some slick new dialog for that in Ubuntu 197.10124 or whatever.
 

RaptorSA

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Not surprised at the negative review then. Its such a pity that open source supporters more than often can only look at the negative and completely disregard any cool new features in a commercial operating system. That and they always to tend to refer to Microsoft as M$

As for the Secure Boot thing, it is taken completely out of context. The concept of a BIOS is archaic (as in around from the 70's and seriously hampering innovation in PCs) and has been replaced with EFI (Extensible Firmware Interface), something which Apple has used in their machines since the switch to Intel. EFI is now being superseded by UEFI (Unified EFI) which by default requires an operating system to be trusted by providing a certificate signed by a well known certificate authority (i.e. Verisign or Thawte - ironic isn't it - Shuttleworth's old company is killing his new OS). So your linux distribution will have to be signed with a certificate in future to boot.

That being said, it really has nothing to do with Microsoft. For a manufacturer to add the "Designed for Windows 8" sticker, the computer must support UEFI. And even then, users are likely to have the ability to switch off the secure boot option should they wish to install a low-cost OS.

http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2011/09/windows-8-secure-boot-will-complicate-linux-installs.ars.

As for the DRM, I haven't really noticed it. Certainly doesn't impact me at all.


Would someone mind explaining that to me? Windows 7 is a modern operating system and it doesn't have a shadow of an open approach to it. Still seems quite successful though.

Must admit, I was a bit disappointed in the misleading manner the article was written. If anything, Secure Boot indicates a fundemental flaw in the open source software idea: no money to buy a certificate and keep up with the times.

As for MyBroadband, I would hope that you check facts before publishing such an article on your front page in future. Kind of embarrassing.
^ This
I vote for recre8 as a MyBB editor.
This pathetic guys. It really does seem that MyBB always has something negative to say about MS Products, which would be fine if it was deserved. It almost never is though.
 

Tinuva

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Uhm right. You will only be locked out from loading another OS if the Hardware vendor doesn't give you the key. If you have the key you can still install any OS you desire. Its up to the hardware vendors not to lock you out, ie. the company writing the EUFI boot software in the motherboard BIOS.

Anyways don't think everyone always have all the facts, and this story has been spreading on the internet for a while now.
 

RaptorSA

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Agree. On Linux, user freedom comes in the form of a text editor, thousands of config files, man pages, internet searches resulting in posts with smug "how could you not know that" responses, compiling your own applications from source code as a manner of "installation", and a number of MyBroadband users which are about to crucify me for saying this and telling me that there is some slick new dialog for that in Ubuntu 197.10124 or whatever.
You're not alone dude. Trust me.
Open source makes for a great philosophy, practically though, it tends to be "5 steps back".

And yes, I am fully aware of the major impact open source has in reality. I just don't want to see it everywhere, "closed system" solutions with tons of cash and standards behind it in a capitalist environment where serving the lowest common denominator and gaining acceptance from the majority is of prime importance, just as the ideas behind sharing information.

It is possible to have both you know, and we do, it's working brilliantly. So please open source pundits, stop complaining.
 
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BravoDrie

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What a crap article. But like one of the other posters, I take it with a pinch of salt after reading his profile description.
 

Necuno

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What a crap article. But like one of the other posters, I take it with a pinch of salt after reading his profile description.
Clearly the reviewer failed to know this is a developer preview (still beta) as well as you do have the ability to do away with the whole metro look and feel.

/andriod fanboi fail

:edit
Backwards definitely.
Opinions just based on an opinion is just as fail as the reply itself.
 
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RaptorSA

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/andriod fanboi fail
I'm so sick of hearing about Android...

*throws frustrating Galaxy S paperweight against the wall*
*looks at Win8 Dev Edition suspending unused background Metro applications perfectly*
*smiles*
 
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