Windows Phone is dead: reports

[Arthur]

Make you wonder why Joe Belfiore took a 6 months leave from Microsoft

To go blond.

 

[cerebus]

That the apps are bad is not only Microsoft's fault. The sh**ty .Net developers who wrote the apps are also to blame. Maybe even entirely so.

The fault is a bit of a catch-22 because devs won't commit proper resources to a weak platform when Android and iOS are so far ahead, and the platform can't get stronger without devs giving proper resources to it. I wouldn't entirely blame devs for the state of the app store now, because there's no incentive for them to improve their apps.

 

[ToxicBunny]

The fault is a bit of a catch-22 because devs won't commit proper resources to a weak platform when Android and iOS are so far ahead, and the platform can't get stronger without devs giving proper resources to it. I wouldn't entirely blame devs for the state of the app store now, because there's no incentive for them to improve their apps.

Yup,

Though I am expecting that when Windows 10 is freely available on devices that it might changes things with Universal Apps... or at least i HOPE it will.

 

[DA-LION-619]

True, that's what i refer to with these desperate "community" versions of apps that the original devs didn't bother to create for WM10. It just feels like you are stuck with second grade apps. Some apps shine, but ultimately they just ain't as good and always playing catchup. Something so obvious these days : Youtube . There are no official youtube app, you have to dig through the pile of alternatives, and to rub it in, when an indie dev gets it decently close to the android/ios experience, you can bet your arse you will be paying for it.... /sigh .

And often when the original devs that do give it a shot, they dump their half-baked app on the store and abandon it! Tapatalk is perfect example of it, the new one doesn't even work and the devs doesn't give a crap. So i had to switch to another indie/hobbyist dev's attempt at remaking tapatalk, at least it works, but nowhere near what the tapatalk on android is like.

So yea, i don't blame MS for the lack of apps, i don't think they make it difficult to create apps or anything, they just don't have that critical mass that would entice devs to code for WM10 . Their approach to instead create bridges to allow android/ios apps to be ported across is the only way they will get back into this....but this seems to have stalled and falling apart.

There was a proper YouTube app, the big G got it removed.
Same story with Snapchat.

 

[Arthur]

Personally, I don't miss any apps. Can't think what apps I need/want that aren't available on Windows Phone/Mobile. Browser apps in a wrapper are fine, even for Youtube. And the joys of using Windows Phone/Mobile far outweigh the minor fiddles. Which is why I hardly ever fire up the 'droid tab.

My (tongue in cheek) retort to Droiders and Appleistas when they raise the apps issue is: Of course you guys need all those apps - your normal experience of the OS interface is so crappy and outdated you need apps to take away the pain.

 

[DLComputer]

I also love Windows Phone, but went back to Android. A lot of apps I want was not there. I will go back again if they have a proper app store.

 

[Sl8er]

Personally, I don't miss any apps. Can't think what apps I need/want that aren't available on Windows Phone/Mobile. Browser apps in a wrapper are fine, even for Youtube. And the joys of using Windows Phone/Mobile far outweigh the minor fiddles. Which is why I hardly ever fire up the 'droid tab.

My (tongue in cheek) retort to Droiders and Appleistas when they raise the apps issue is: Of course you guys need all those apps - your normal experience of the OS interface is so crappy and outdated you need apps to take away the pain.

I did the apple thing riiight in the beginning. Moved over to Android around 2009. Did the app-whoring thing...app-whored myself out and eventually settled on a few apps. Moved over to WP about mid last year. It has all the apps I need and use and the OS is still super smooth, no lags or slowdowns or anything. (No reboots required.)
I'm super happy with it...and I'm hoping for more...much, much more.

 

[CataclysmZA]

So now it's already said Astoria (android bridge) is dead, and news on Islandwood (ios bridge) is so thin that it sounds like it might not even come out before people abandoned the OS.

Islandwood might still come out, but I think there's a delay for the consumer version of Windows 10 because they need to certify devices which might run those ported apps. Apple makes a lot of changes now to their ARM processors than they've done in the past (some of that is Jim Keller's doing) and now I fear that some devices won't be able to run those apps because Microsoft can't optimise the experience well enough to avoid any performance issues.

For the same reason that upgrades to newer versions of iOS make older iPads and iPhones slow, so Microsoft will have to continually evaluate performance of the iOS bridge and see if it's worth supporting or not. There's a good chance they'll also allow older devices to run iOS apps, but they won't be able to fix the performance issues.

^ As an aside, I think you do Elop an injustice. He was a new guy Microsoft, joining only at the beginning of 2008 before leaving for Nokia in 2010. He was previously at Lotus Development, Macromedia, Adobe, and COO at Juniper Networks. He's no fool, and thpose who know him or watch closely are certain he was no trojan for Microsoft to somehow inflitrate and capture Nokia. That's an ugly slur far removed from reality. Remember, Microsoft bought Nokia because Nokia was doing >90% of WinPhones and not doing so would have removed Microsoft from even the tiny marketshare they had. Shortly after buying Nokia (to save Windows phone), Microsoft took the hit and reported its first ever loss - a shock to investors and shareholders. Taking a $7b hit for Nokia is not getting the company cheap!

I'm not really sure about that. Elop's a talented executor and he knows how to get **** done, so it was really, really odd to see him succeed so well at Macromedia, but flounder at Nokia which just continued to shrink more and more. They abandoned their relationship with Intel and the Meego project under his tenure as CEO, which would have brought the same Continuum concept to phones years ago. Before the burning platform memo, Nokia was still a massively influential force in the mobile market. After the burning platform memo, no-one was certain what Nokia's future was.

It didn't help that Microsoft paid special attention to Nokia and no-one else. No other company wanted to, or could afford to, compete with Nokia, which had a much stronger presence and brand loyalty in Europe and Africa. HTC, Huawei, Samsung, were all also-rans in the Windows Phone race.

You're old enough to remember the "embrace, extend, extinguish" strategy that Microsoft used for the early browser wars in the 90's. Attaching themselves so closely to Nokia seemed to harken back to those days giving Nokia no choice but to continue riding the rollercoaster, and Microsoft now has massive chunks of Nokia's mobile IP in its war chest. No-one is saying the same things about Motorola, though its performance after the Google acquisition certainly looks similar, and now Google has all of Motorola's IP and Lenovo has the crumbling remains of a once-powerful mobile brand. The same thing could eventually happen to Cyanogen.

But Ballmer's not in charge now, Satya is. And his strategy doesn't align with producing a dedicated platform that works the best with all their software and services - no, that's iOS and Android now. It is possible for them to slowly iterate on Windows Phone and eventually make it a good platform on an equal footing to the others, but they're moving at such a slow pace that it doesn't seem like they're doing anything worthwhile at all.

My (tongue in cheek) retort to Droiders and Appleistas when they raise the apps issue is: Of course you guys need all those apps - your normal experience of the OS interface is so crappy and outdated you need apps to take away the pain.

The app gap is a real thing now. Snapchat? Not on Windows Phone. Mobile payment systems? Not on Windows Phone. Dedicated, well-crafted Google apps? Most definitely never coming to Windows Phone ever again. The Microsoft Store has an even bigger problem with discoverability, which is hurting developers and pushing people away from the platform. That particular part of Windows 10 needs a complete rethink and overhaul.

 

[VC-1]

Personally, I don't miss any apps. Can't think what apps I need/want that aren't available on Windows Phone/Mobile. Browser apps in a wrapper are fine, even for Youtube. And the joys of using Windows Phone/Mobile far outweigh the minor fiddles. Which is why I hardly ever fire up the 'droid tab.

My (tongue in cheek) retort to Droiders and Appleistas when they raise the apps issue is: Of course you guys need all those apps - your normal experience of the OS interface is so crappy and outdated you need apps to take away the pain.

Well said echoing my thoughts completely.

I wonder if anybody recalls using a Windows CE/Windows Mobile 4 PDA (Portable Digital Assistant) device now branded a Smart Phone in 2016 eg. HP Compaq,Imate and Qtek etc. for business or pleasure, comparing these wonderful devices and OS to the useless Symbian devices of the day.
Even then we did not cry about apps but used the built in apps of the Windows device.

The idea of a app store was a mere commercial venture by the industry.

The only reason for Android and ios having greater market share is due to an generally un-educated consumer and forceful marketing forces etc.

The modern Windows Phone as it is today remains a the winner over the other OS devices with or without app store in my view.

 

[CataclysmZA]

The only reason for Android and ios having greater market share is due to an generally un-educated consumer and forceful marketing forces etc.

I don't believe that's accurate. The failure of Windows Phone, and indeed for Blackberry OS10 as well, is because the companies behind these platforms shot themselves in the foot one too many times and didn't market the devices in the right way, and didn't attract and keep enough developers interested in the platform. Look at Blackberry now, having the light shined on them again once they adopted Android, which fits in much better than BB OS10 for today's market. The Priv isn't perfect, but it's a step in the right direction, and if they're able to develop a launcher for Android that mimics BB OS10's behaviour that is also available to other Android phones, they might have a shot at being relevant once more.

Blaming uneducated consumers for Windows Phone's market share is not the answer. There was a period where the company was saying and doing all the right things which resulted in the runaway success of the Lumia 520. Now, for various reasons, no-one takes them seriously anymore.

 

[sajunky]

The only reason for Android and ios having greater market share is due to an generally un-educated consumer and forceful marketing forces etc.

When following above statement properly you will find that Windows 10 Mobile has no future, as nothing has been changed.

- iOS has gained market share as it works and soon became iConic
- Android has gained market dominance as it gives (some) freedom
- Windows Phone has failed, as (to many to mention).

According to earlier posts Windows 10 mobile is supposed to attract power users, there are no many. As you wrote a typical smartphone user is generally uneducated. In other terms: a gadget user, a couch computing, movies consumer.

 

[zippy]

Personally, I don't miss any apps. Can't think what apps I need/want that aren't available on Windows Phone/Mobile. Browser apps in a wrapper are fine, even for Youtube. And the joys of using Windows Phone/Mobile far outweigh the minor fiddles. Which is why I hardly ever fire up the 'droid tab.

My (tongue in cheek) retort to Droiders and Appleistas when they raise the apps issue is: Of course you guys need all those apps - your normal experience of the OS interface is so crappy and outdated you need apps to take away the pain.

Interesting retort But then the Windows phone must have been exceptionally crap if it couldn't lure customers away from Android and iOS devices, which supposedly have such bad OS interface interesting how people seem to gravitate towards these "bad" OS interfaces

The only reason I bought an iPhone at the time was that it was the only device that offered apps, which effectively integrated, music, video, email and mobile telephony. Before that Nokia was my favourite phone. But they failed to keep up.

Windows has a substantial developer base. They just didn't embrace mobile development until late(Microsofts fault for not providing tools). But then Android came late too. The first commercial version released in Sept 2008.

Windows developers failed to leverage the large Windows user base. I did consider a windows phone at one point to replace my iPhone. But I wasn't convinced.

My main phone remains the iPhone. I also have 2 Android phones in my drawer. I have no reason to switch. From the perspective of the average consumer there is no difference between usability of an Android phone or iPhone. In my view both OS do the job. I am just more used to my iPhone and I like the integration with my other devices. It's a bit more of a mission with my Android phones. Which is why I am disappointed by Windows phone. It should been a good fit with Windows 7/8 and 10. An iPhone or an Android phone is better fit with Windows

Ps: if I feel Apple is not keeping up, I will dump my iPhone as fast as I dumped my Nokia

 

[DA-LION-619]

When following above statement properly you will find that Windows 10 Mobile has no future, as nothing has been changed.

- iOS has gained market share as it works and soon became iConic
- Android has gained market dominance as it gives (some) freedom
- Windows Phone has failed, as (to many to mention).

According to earlier posts Windows 10 mobile is supposed to attract power users, there are no many. As you wrote a typical smartphone user is generally uneducated. In other terms: a gadget user, a couch computing, movies consumer.

It's funny that now iOS and Android are playing catch up to the Surface range. Consumers just look at the tag line when making decisions, "Blackberries and free internet", next it will be using your phone like a computer.

 

[VC-1]

generally uneducated.

My statement "Generally uneducated" was SUBJECTIVE defined as " Based on a given person's experience, understanding, and feelings; personal or individual".

This based on my observations of customers seeking assistance to operate their PDA/Smartphones and PC of ALL operating systems when approaching staff from all the network operators and PC shops. The various phone/PC brand reps are on the same level by their appointment as temp contract staff with minimal product training.

Yes Sir this is the reality at shop level so how can these consumers make an informed decision on which OS phone to purchase.

I am of the opinion that the Windows Phone is the winner and will always be so - My final say on this topic.

 

[zippy]

My statement "Generally uneducated" was SUBJECTIVE defined as " Based on a given person's experience, understanding, and feelings; personal or individual".

This based on my observations of customers seeking assistance to operate their PDA/Smartphones and PC of ALL operating systems when approaching staff from all the network operators and PC shops. The various phone/PC brand reps are on the same level by their appointment as temp contract staff with minimal product training.

Yes Sir this is the reality at shop level so how can these consumers make an informed decision on which OS phone to purchase.

I am of the opinion that the Windows Phone is the winner and will always be so - My final say on this topic.

The winner doesn't quit or get their ass handed to them

 

[Dolby]

It's odd considering the millions with Windows 10 and Xbox One. Would have been great to have a PC, laptop, tablet, phone and console all being interlinked and working together.

I heard a major issue though, was apps

 

[DLComputer]

Point still is, a Windows Device in the low R1000 area and under R2000 area does not LAGG, has a great Gps, long battery life and a ok camera. Iphone has a charger in that price range and Android in that price range, well it used to suck, but you can also get a decent eish Android phone for the same price these days. But the Windows version at least Guarantees a couple of updates.

 

[purpleonlineadmin]

There was a proper YouTube app, the big G got it removed.
Same story with Snapchat.

Yup, even the alternative Snapchat app (6snap) got removed (something about the CEO hating Microsoft, surely no fault of MS at this point).

I have over 140 apps on my 8.1 device, and only lack your SA shopping (again due to them not wanting to develop for Windows Phone or Windows period), and Nedbank app (even Standard Bank has a WP app ).


For people saying they can't find ABC app due to Google, Rudi Huyn (and other app developers) make some wonderful WP apps, some even better than the publishers:

Metrotube = alternative Youtube
6tag = Instagram (don't bother with the crappy Instagram BETA)
6tin = Tinder
8stream = Twitch
MetroDrive = Google Drive
MetroMail = Gmail


...and most newer apps, Twitter for example, are now UWP apps. The app excuse is slowly going out the window considering 1 app can be used across desktop Windows 10 (over 110m supposed downloads), Xbox & Windows Phone.

 

[Arthur]

The app excuse is slowly going out the window considering 1 app can be used across desktop Windows 10 (over 110m supposed downloads), Xbox & Windows Phone.

>200 million ACTIVE Win10 users (not just downloads/upgrades).

---------

Mary Branscombe over at ZDNet has an interesting perspective: Why Windows 10 Mobile could still be a sleeper hit.

1 Feb 2016

Why Windows 10 Mobile could still be a sleeper hit

Microsoft still needs mobile, and Windows 10 Mobile will benefit from the way Windows app development is changing.

... The appeal of writing for all those different devices at once (with plenty of encouragement from Microsoft, no doubt) is getting some new partners onto Windows 10, like the Ring video doorbell. If that really succeeds, it will deal with a lot of the 'app gap' -- and Microsoft needs it to succeed, for the future of Windows as well as the future of Windows phones.

Windows needs to be mobile. It needs to be a credible tablet OS as well as a strong desktop and notebook OS (and while a tablet OS and a phone OS aren't exactly the same, we increasingly treat phones as computers that fit in our pockets rather than something that's first and foremost for making calls and sending text messages).

... Win32 applications aren't dead or dying, but WinRT and UWP apps are the future of Windows app development. Windows Mobile can be the beneficiary of that, giving Microsoft the option of its own mobile OS alongside the strategy of putting Microsoft apps and services on iOS and Android -- as long as Microsoft can turn it into a platform that's efficient for the Windows team to create without needing it to be a major hit overnight.

That way, there's the chance of it staying the course and -- just maybe -- becoming a sleeper hit once it matures, because there are still plenty of great features in Windows 10 Mobile struggling to be noticed.

And then Richard Hay at SuperSite for Windows has The Status of Windows Phone - Alive, Dead or Dormant?

1 Feb 2016

The Status of Windows Phone - Alive, Dead or Dormant?

... We already know that Microsoft has the ability to build solid hardware and they can also iterate and innovate in that area so I do not expect any less when it comes to Windows Mobile hardware. This includes the further refinement of technologies like Windows Hello and Continuum Mode that we see in the Lumia 950 and 950 XL devices. Those technologies could easily translate into new hardware tablets and maybe even a Surface Phone or Surface Mini.

Bottom line is that I do not believe Microsoft is anywhere near killing off Windows Phone but have just left it dormant as the ecosystem around it changes and matures leading to a possible new Spring in the products existence.

---

In other news, Microsoft has just acquired SwiftKey. Another report here.

 

[sajunky]

Advertising crap.