Wire smart switches to single location

[BetaProject]

Hi guys.

I am planning a new build, and was wondering about the feasibility of installing smart switches and relays (like Shellys or Sonoff Minis) in one or two little cabinets, and running wire to wall switches and/or lights, instead of installing the devices at each switch, plug or light fitting.

Is this a genius idea or a sign that my 'shrooms are past their sell-by date?

I'm thinking that, since I am amazingly lazy, this will be easier if I need to replace or upgrade devices, rather than having to unscrew wall plates or crawl around in the ceiling like an overgrown rodent.

I suppose another option would be something like the Shelly 4Pro which can be installed in the DB, but would this allow for wiring a physical switch (momentary switch) to control lights manually?

Comments?

 

[AxField]

You are making a sheeeet load of extra work and wiring for yourself. And if the system is wired 'weird' you might have a challenge explaining how it works when it's time to get a CoC

 

[BetaProject]

You make a point. Doing the actual wiring is not an issue (since someone else will be doing the work...), but it might well present challenges with a COC, true.

 

[Tinuva]

It could work, but is a lot of extra conduit and wiring, which makes it almost twice the price for the basic wiring alone.

Dont think it is worth it, but a worthy thought exercise.

 

[R4m80]

From a cost point of view, it might be more expensive, but from a convenience point of view, I think that would be a great way of doing it. The guy from SuperHouseTV has his place setup up similarly.

 

[Tacet]

There's nothing in the idea that goes against the wiring code. But involve your electrician from the start; it will be easier to explain what you're doing and sort out the small issues before the work is done.

Example: choice of cabinet. The electrician may insist on something complying with SANS 1973-3, so you don't want to buy an expensive enclosure to have him insist on you replacing it with something else. For such a project I'd simply buy a DIN rail DB - looks tidy, easy to work with and chances are that the electrician will be happy.

 

[BetaProject]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I've been following HA developments for a while, but don't have much practical experience. This forum and the fantastic people populating it has been invaluable.

 

[xodosman123]

Mine are all in line. close to what I am controlling.

 

[AxField]

Mine are all in line. close to what I am controlling.

I agree, you don't gain anything by having it centrally located, except for making things overly complex and expensive.

The reason people centralised these things in the past, is because 'smart' switches were cheaper if you bought them as 4 way or 8 way. The 'smarts' is the part that cost money, not the inputs and outputs. That, and having ethernet cables going to each and every point was a pain.

Now that single 'smart' switches are less than R500 each (even cheaper still if you going for a basic one) and they are wifi, there's really no need to centralise them. They all wifi, so no extra ethernet or comms wiring to be installed. It's literally removing the dumb switch and wiring a smart one in its place. Yeah, they need neutrals, but in most cases it's less of an issue tapping it off the device to be controlled (by using the old live as a draw wire and pulling in a new live and neutral), than it would be to rewire the whole house.

So, as I've stated before: Why the need to centralise it? I genuinely do not see any real world benefit in doing so.

 

[Tacet]

^^Sure, there are no real need for a centralized installation, but there is a simplicity to it that I quite like. You'll need a neutral all your lights, same as now. Then you'll need a live between you fr switching box and each light.

If you want light switches in each room it will end up in a more complex installation, but if you're happy to be dependent on your mobile/tablet/HA then the installation could end up pretty simple and straight-forward.

For me the main advantage of a centralized system will be that it is that bit easier to get away from using Wifi and back to a wired control interface.

 

[BetaProject]

My initial thoughts revolved around two ways of doing this.

First idea was running wire to physical switches and then to the smart relays (a metric ton of wire and more work, as was pointed out).

My second idea involved avoiding physical wired switches altogether. I would have the smart devices centralized (even installed at or next to the DB), and use wireless transmitters (similar to the QwickSwitch transmitters https://qwikswitch.co.za/collections/products/products/qwik-switch-2-button-transmitter) to control the relay which switches lights on/off.

I wouldn't have to run wire to the wall switches, since they would be battery-powered transmitters only.

I am not married to the idea, and value the input.

 

[AxField]

For me the main advantage of a centralized system will be that it is that bit easier to get away from using Wifi and back to a wired control interface.

Why? I have around 45 smart devices on my wifi network and they work without issue.

Look, it's your house and your money. I'm just trying (and failing) to understand the logic.

 

[BetaProject]

After giving it some thought, my second idea is even worse than my first.

I can just imagine trying to get a COC when there are no light switches in the house...

 

[Tacet]

The Wifi bands where I live are badly congested, so my Wifi devices are experiencing noticeable lag. I'm living in a duplex unit, so I'm catching interference from a good 7 other units. And then we have a few WISPs operating in the vicinity, also contributing their bit to the noise floor.

I'm still slowly but surely expanding my setup with more Sonoffs. Our current distributed setup is the easiest and most cost-effective solution. But it would have been nice to have a single control-DB with 9 relays and one controller to control them all.

 

[Tacet]

After giving it some thought, my second idea is even worse than my first.

I can just imagine trying to get a COC when there are no light switches in the house...

Whether you have light switches or not shouldn't have a bearing on your CoC. The light switches are there for your convenience, not for safety. The safety of the circuit is catered for by the circuit breaker and the earth leakage.

 

[AxField]

The Wifi bands where I live are badly congested, so my Wifi devices are experiencing noticeable lag. I'm living in a duplex unit, so I'm catching interference from a good 7 other units. And then we have a few WISPs operating in the vicinity, also contributing their bit to the noise floor.

I'm still slowly but surely expanding my setup with more Sonoffs. Our current distributed setup is the easiest and most cost-effective solution. But it would have been nice to have a single control-DB with 9 relays and one controller to control them all.

Are you running them in the cloud? If so, that’s more likely your issue. I don’t stay in a complex, but I can pick up 6 other APs around me.

I have 5 WiFi down lights at the Patio, sync’ed to each other and I can adjust dimming on one and the other 4 follow. Without lag.

 

[Tacet]

Are you running them in the cloud? If so, that’s more likely your issue. I don’t stay in a complex, but I can pick up 6 other APs around me.
...

Nope, I have a small Openhab system running on an old laptop. The laptop is on Ethernet.

I see 16 APs from where I sit. But add to that other devices in the 2.4 band such as Bluetooth, remotes, microwaves, some cordless phones and baby monitors, and even some wireless mice, and you end up with a pretty high noise floor. I'd love to get hold of a spectrum analyser to see what it looks like.

But yeah, 2.4 GHz saturation isn't yet a good enough reason for me to go for a centralized system. A centralized system would be extremely convenient to maintain, but I won't consider it as a retrofit to an existing installation. With a new installation (e.g. building a new house with input from the get go as to wiring and conduits) I'd seriously consider it, though.

 

[BetaProject]

That is the position I am in. Planning a new build, and centralizing my smart relays and controllers. Agree, it is much better to do it in a new build than to retro-fit. Whether it is a good idea is up for debate, but for me it is a personal preference.