Work Hours and Success

[Bobbin]

Fair assessment

Point just was though. Unless your time is actually money (self employed) you will hardly every see the value in working long hours. Not saying you can't better yourself with external studies and the likes (I've been doing it for ages). However, you need to have some kind of balance. Working 100 hours a week is retarded and has no bearing on the success of Elon Musk.

I'm sure that when he reaches 60 years of age he will think back and wishes he spent more time doing thing he liked and spent it with people he loved than sitting at the office

Vid below seemed relevant. First 1m30 of it at least

[video=youtube;cFCHEgh1DPk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFCHEgh1DPk[/video]

 

[HavocXphere]

How many hours a week do you work? 37.5 - 80; largely seasonal
How many of those hours are aligned with your goals/pursuits in life? All of them
Do you consider yourself a high achiever? Does anyone ever answer this question with "no"?
Do you meticulously plan and/or monitor your time/days/weeks/goals? Work yes, outside of that no

When looking at high achievers (Successful individuals with wealth, accolades or recognition) in the world I've encountered 2 distinct "strategies".

Those who work 100 hours a week including weekends, simply out-competing everyone around them (i.e. Elon Musk).
Those who employ an optimizing strategy, focusing on doing the least amount of work with the highest value and certainly not putting in excess hours (i.e. Tim Ferriss).

The crowd claiming to work smarter not harder are usually morons in my experience. First their supposed extra efficiency usually exists solely in their minds. And second what do they think others are doing? Deciding to work stupider? :crylaugh:

The successful people do both in my experience. Plus network well, plus are intelligent, plus have a bit of luck.

Been trying to cut down the hours my side though

 

[^^vampire^^]

You'll find that those business people that are making 10s or 100s of millions each year will either expressly tell you that you have to choose a life of family or a life of business but cannot choose both, or you can see the evidence of this in their lifestyle (Elon musk lost his wife and most likely doesn't spend much time with his GF/kids.

Tim Ferris is another interesting character because of what he advocates. The problem here is that he built a successful company and sold it for a decent amount basically making him financially free. It's easy to advocate a 4 hour work week when you have enough cash not to care if you are bringing in money or not which is the complete opposite to most of us wage slaves. You will also see how he often suggests getting online secretaries etc to do the hard work for you etc, kind of like a business owner hiring staff to do all the things they can't or don't want to. He's already put in the long, hard hours but he never mentions this and conveniently leaves it out making the reader think it's possible for them to just swap over to this kind of lifestyle - which you can't.

The reason people that work long hours each week are successful is because they are always available and always working at the business. When I ran my own web dev business clients found it convenient that I was always available, even at 1am.

I think you will find that people that start going down this road don't have a clearly defined stopping point (mostly for those that become successful) and they become so wrapped up in enjoying everything business that they just don't/can't stop. You will find that these people either get to a point and cash out or they become so engrossed in the process of business that they will keep doing 100 hour work weeks until they literally die because they have nothing else.

 

[Venomous]

.

Not everyone needs 8 hours sleep a day.
There are people that sleep 4-6hrs a night.
I know cos I'm one of those.
Evrryone's bodies are different and as such their needed sleep patterns differ vastly.
I can easily work 16 hour days, as many of my actual days are approx 20hrs.
Then there are weekends.

So actually it is possible to work more than 100hrs in a 7 day week. Even if you work shorter hours on weekends.

I don't need an alarm. When my eyes open I must get up. I cannot go back to sleep.

If there is a NEED for it I could even skip sleep and even then I won't get more than 6 hours in the next day.
Where many others need days to recover.

Last night I slept a little less than 5 hrs.

 

[Kosmik]

I get by on 5-6 hours of sleep but I use the additional time for family and pursuits. So ~9 hours work+ 6hours sleep leaves 9 hours for anything else including travel, eating etc. Life is more than work, not to say I don't use some of out of work hours to do exactly that but as a norm I try and stick everything into that timeframe. Burnout is a real thing and there is only so much constructive work a person can do in a day if it's highly cognitive.

That being said, I'm not talking about 9-5, I mean work hours, anywhere, anytime. The flexibility to do that actually saves a lot of time.

 

[hj007]

Used to work in the investment banking space where my hours looked like this:
How many hours a week do you work? 80+
How many of those hours are aligned with your goals/pursuits in life? all just on working
Do you consider yourself a high achiever? high achiever in terms of salary plus bonus, no in terms of other parts of one's life.
Do you meticulously plan and/or monitor your time/days/weeks/goals? sort of, but mainly just keep working

The pay was very good in front office - as some of you know, bonuses are everything in the investment banking space. The hours leave no time for anything else. As our manager used to say, don't make any plans for the week. I know of multiple people cancelling holidays and honeymoons.

Left that space. Now, investments determine my financial outcome, so working 1 hour or 100 hours makes little difference, your financial outcome depends on the performance of the investment. Work a lot to get an investment done, but if there isn't an investment, then very little.

 

[Emjay]

Your post is mainly focused on professional and financial achievement. Not everyone has that as a focus. I am happy in my job. I am happy where I am for the time being. I am good at what I do, and focus on delivering according to what is expected. Nothing more. I don't get anything more, so I don't put in more than that. The structure and political environment of my job don't really allow for it.

But, I put in around 20 hours per week towards my own personal goals. I have had to sacrifice time with friends and any other idle time (TV/social media, etc). Friends didn't take kindly to that. But, achieving a goal will need prioritization of one's time.

 

[Immortal_Souljah]

There is a book by gillian zoe segal. Title is "getting there" really good read with interviews from buffet, guiliani and the like.

 

[pinball wizard]

OP defines success in terms of achievement in business. I don't.

It's a live to work vs a work to live thing.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

Those who employ an optimizing strategy, focusing on doing the least amount of work with the highest value and certainly not putting in excess hours (i.e. Tim Ferriss).

This. Work smart, not hard...

How many hours a week do you work? 30-40 on an average week with not much going on. Can go up to 80 when things are a bit hectic.

How many of those hours are aligned with your goals/pursuits in life? Not sure what this means. My goal in life is not to work again, so 0.

Do you consider yourself a high achiever? Yes

Do you meticulously plan and/or monitor your time/days/weeks/goals? No

 

[Bobbin]

Left that space. Now, investments determine my financial outcome, so working 1 hour or 100 hours makes little difference, your financial outcome depends on the performance of the investment. Work a lot to get an investment done, but if there isn't an investment, then very little.

Making your money work for you vs. you working for money. Now that's smart

 

[Barbarian Conan]

I work the usual 40-ish hours a week at the moment. When I was younger, at times I have done around 80.

Long hours are only worth it if it will lead to promotion or toward your goals. When I worked the 80 hour weeks, all I did was save the company the cost of one resource per month.

Now I will work the 40 hours I'm paid for, and if I do any work after that (over longer periods) it will be for what I want to do, not what the boss wants me to do.

Still not getting rich though.

 

[hj007]

I work the usual 40-ish hours a week at the moment. When I was younger, at times I have done around 80.

Long hours are only worth it if it will lead to promotion or toward your goals. When I worked the 80 hour weeks, all I did was save the company the cost of one resource per month.

Now I will work the 40 hours I'm paid for, and if I do any work after that (over longer periods) it will be for what I want to do, not what the boss wants me to do.

Still not getting rich though.

Yes agreed - all about incentives. Why would you work long hours for no reason. The reasons you would work 40+ hours in my mind are:
1. compensated on an hourly basis (lawyers, doctors, consultants)
2. salary for 40 hours with overtime pay above that (generally lower paying jobs here like retail etc)
3. large discretionary bonuses based on deals done and you need to work those hours to achieve this (sales and banking type of roles)
4. equity shareholder (own business or a significant shareholder) - you want to ensure growth of your business and outwork your competitors.

Technically no-one should work more than the contracted hours in most jobs if all you get is a pat on the back. If you're willing to work those hours, at least do it in an occupation that rewards exploitation :crylaugh:

But I'm a firm believer in doing the extra (for pay, promotion, growth, learning) in your 20s and 30s so that you can do what you want later. Others have a view that you should have balance over your lifetime. No right answer I think, it depends.

 

[cguy]

How many hours a week do you work?
Approximately 50-55 officially, although, realistically I ponder work related problems at least another 20-30 hours a week. Also, whenever I start anew job, I would work for probably 80 hours a week for the first year (perhaps 2) to establish myself.

How many of those hours are aligned with your goals/pursuits in life?
All of them indirectly.

Do you consider yourself a high achiever?
Yes, very. I credit a lot of the success I've had with a strong work ethic and many hours sunk into learning early on in my career and life. At the age of 27, I had both a PhD and 4 years of real world work experience. I also had ~20 years of programming experience total at the time.

Do you meticulously plan and/or monitor your time/days/weeks/goals?
No, I go with the flow, but I have realized that splitting my attention even on fun projects or personal learning usually doesn't work. There is a certain minimum hours per unit progress cadence that needs to be maintained in order to make any real progress at all (e.g., you can't learn a particular mathematical topic, spoken language, or such from an hour a week).

 

[SauRoNZA]

1. The amount of hours I spend a day doing mundane but necessary things is actually quite significant (Cleaning, shopping, commute, cooking, showering, family interruptions etc...) - making a 100 hours work week seem nearly impossible, where I might call BS on that claim anyway. And I'm single - imagine a family man trying to do that.

100 hour work week people aren't family people.

Either they literally are single, or they make massive compromises in simply not being there for their family and making up for it in other ways or not at all.

2. The amount of hours I spend a day actually working on my goals is far lower than I imagined. You will likely be shocked at this if you monitored your own time. Even if some of my goals are aligned with my career, the repetitive mundane stuff you have to do on a job doesn't necessarily push you forward either. For example rather than take a call from a client with a problem or a project I'm really not interested in but could take hours/days - I could be learning or working on a new technology instead, but this isn't a choice I can necessarily make.

Yeah I fight this tooth and nail within my power. In fact scheduled an agenda point with the powers that be regarding a new implementation that will add even more mundane to my own and team's lives with little to no benefit. One of those cases of management seeing something as bright and shiny while nobody on the ground would ever bother using it as it's counter productive.

3. If you actually want to commit a decent amount of time to your goals - you probably need to turn off that TV and any other entertainment for good. You will again be shocked at how much time this takes out of the remainder of your measly 16 - 18 hour (awake) day if you wish to commit an effective amount of time on your goals.

By and large why I don't have an aerial connected to my TV and therefore only watch stuff if and when I want to and have made time for it instead of being sucked into the drone of DSTV and the like.

I play games 22:00-01:00 for similar reasons to focus on other more important things.

4. I have too many hobbies (Gym, Guitar, Gaming) - even if I only have 3 of them. I would be very sad to drop any of them off the radar but likely would keep gym (Health) and drop the other 2 if forced to choose. Even just going to gym could take up to 2 hours out of your day including getting changed, planning routines, travel etc...

Fortunately I don't do gym. But I rather have less hobbies that I can focus on than more hobbies than I have a mediocre approach to.

Thinking of packing up my aquarium for this very reason of neglect.

5. It is sometimes a little tricky to classify what exactly is work. Is getting dressed for work part of those 100 hours? Is doing chores/errands just to maintain your livelihood part of those 100 hours? Or are these guys really pushing beyond that?

This really ties in with a flexible work approach over the strictly 9-5 concept. You can be sure Elon Musk isn't just working when he gets to the office.

I drop the kids off at school in the morning and open up my laptop while I make breakfast and have my coffee etc. If there is something worth responding to or getting into I'll have a good at it and then often only get to the office by 10:00....if I bother going to the office.

If I get really stuck into something and I don't have a meeting scheduled or something like that I'll often work from home.

6. I can't decide whether 8 hours a day of sleep or less than 6 hours is the "right" thing to do. Again there is so much conflicting info about success (more hours or more rest) in this domain.

Stop trying to conform to other people's standards on this one. I cannot fathom how people will claim "insomnia" and then simply lie in bed watching the ceiling or whatever. If your body doesn't need to sleep it won't.

I'm in bed by 1:00 most nights and up at 7:00ish again and very recently is that a solid sleep as my daughter still get up in the night and will come to our bed etc. Last night this happened at 4:30 and I honestly could have gotten up and just started my day then had it been a little warmer outside.

****

One thing however I can't fathom is people who travel for hours every day and consider it acceptable. Unless you are doing that travel in a bus/train where you can still do other things while doing it then this really seems like the most counter productive and mundane thing most people seem to do.

I ride a motorcycle for this very reason but it's also one of my hobbies. This isn't accessible to everyone of course but then you really should look at either moving your work closer to home or moving your home closer to work.

Or make your home and work one and the same.


Something to consider also is that not all value lies in work and money and often just having more time to yourself is as valuable as money.

You mentioned hobbies and family and for that very reason there is nothing wrong with working less to effectively earn more per hour so that you can spend more time with those things.

I used to work crazy 60 hour work weeks at my previous company and figured I was on top of my game. Then I changed jobs where my hours became less for more money so I by and large earn the same now as I did before but put much less effort into it. In my view that is being a higher achiever over how I did it before.

 

[HavocXphere]

whenever I start anew job, I would work for probably 80 hours a week for the first year (perhaps 2) to establish myself.

Dreading that & frankly adding to my inertia.

Especially since I've got a situation where nobody ever knows where I am/what I'm up to yet it's backed by the powers that be so nobody questions it. Going from that to new employee is going to be rough

100 hour work week people aren't family people.

I often wonder about that. I slog hard for a short sprint each year (3 months). Towards the end I can feel that things are getting pretty sketchy on in terms of healthy balance. No idea how anyone sustains 100 hours continuously. Adderall?

 

[SauRoNZA]

Dreading that & frankly adding to my inertia.

Especially since I've got a situation where nobody ever knows where I am/what I'm up to yet it's backed by the powers that be so nobody questions it. Going from that to new employee is going to be rough


I often wonder about that. I slog hard for a short sprint each year (3 months). Towards the end I can feel that things are getting pretty sketchy on in terms of healthy balance. No idea how anyone sustains 100 hours continuously. Adderall?

Yeah probably through some kind of assistance or other imbalance.

Extremes garner extremes.

 

[hj007]

Yeah probably through some kind of assistance or other imbalance.

Extremes garner extremes.

My colleagues used to outsource most chores like aupairs for the kids, cooks to make family dinners, drivers and assistants for the rest. They're not doing errands much, but will take time out for the occasional kids soccer game.

A few get burned out or move to substances but most leave a few years in, some build a career out of it.

 

[midnightcaller]

Very interesting subject ....


How many hours a week do you work? About 60hours.

How many of those hours are aligned with your goals/pursuits in life? Zero. Those 60 hours are to get a paycheck.

Do you consider yourself a high achiever? at one point in my life, yes. But not in the last 15 years.

Do you meticulously plan and/or monitor your time/days/weeks/goals? Nope. Just bring home the bacon.

 

[SauRoNZA]

My colleagues used to outsource most chores like aupairs for the kids, cooks to make family dinners, drivers and assistants for the rest. They're not doing errands much, but will take time out for the occasional kids soccer game.

A few get burned out or move to substances but most leave a few years in, some build a career out of it.

Yeah it’s a choice you need to make.

At present with wife still on maternity leave we use a food delivery service and will probably continue to do so going forward. Even though I love cooking it just doesn’t fit into our schedule and would take time away from the kids etc for every little real benefit.

The aupair concept in a year or two is one still up for debate. I'm not there keen on someone else raising my kids in isolation even if it's just for two or three hours a day.

Then I feel I'd rather pay more money and send them to private school with aftercare where they share the time with their friends instead of sitting at home alone with an aupair.

Or I send them to a public school and option to work from home on a more permanent basis so I can manage the rest of that time myself.

It's always a catch 22 of compromise.