Work Hours and Success

[zippy]

Pretty much.
I am reasonably certain that Mr Musk already has regrets. His marriage and relationships don't last.

I've seen many people like this in my time... all they do is work... screw family, and friends.

I don’t think his working hours has anything to with his relationship problems. He is a genius, but also could just be a dick.

 

[Ancalagon]

I don’t think his working hours has anything to with his relationship problems. He is a genius, but also could just be a dick.

Bill Gates has been married to Melinda Gates for decades now. I am pretty sure he used to work very long hours.

 

[Brieuse]

End of day nobody gives **** the unofficial hours you worked, perhaps except your ex girlfriend, wife, husband. It’s the price you pay.

 

[ezron]

.

 

[Mercury12]

Great thread, Ive been thinking about this a lot recently. My brother works for a big corporate and he is in senior management, he works easily 12-14 hours a day and works at least a full day during weekends. His job demands the hours so its not like he is working unnecessarily I guess. He has a family (one child) and he has sacrificed a lot with his family. I am reaching a stage in my career where the work load is increasing in a similar way and the hours are increasing exponentially. I probably wouldnt move up the corporate ladder if I dont take up more responsibility. If you decide to maintain the quo the alternative is to probably stagnate in your career and fall behind my peers. It may be different in other jobs but is it really worth it?

 

[Barbarian Conan]

Stop trying to conform to other people's standards on this one. I cannot fathom how people will claim "insomnia" and then simply lie in bed watching the ceiling or whatever. If your body doesn't need to sleep it won't.

I'm in bed by 1:00 most nights and up at 7:00ish again and very recently is that a solid sleep as my daughter still get up in the night and will come to our bed etc. Last night this happened at 4:30 and I honestly could have gotten up and just started my day then had it been a little warmer outside.

I've had something akin to insomnia at times. I feel exhausted during the day, but as soon as my head hits the pillow I start stressing about everything that still needs to be done and can't sleep. Then I can't perform at my peak as I'm tired, and I can't sleep because I feel I didn't accomplish enough for the day.
Sleeping pills or even Myprodol + whiskey seemed to help a bit, but it's not something you want to come to rely on.

In the end, making sure I do proper exercise at least 3 times a week and working in a more relaxed environment seems to do the trick better than any of the above.

 

[SauRoNZA]

I've had something akin to insomnia at times. I feel exhausted during the day, but as soon as my head hits the pillow I start stressing about everything that still needs to be done and can't sleep. Then I can't perform at my peak as I'm tired, and I can't sleep because I feel I didn't accomplish enough for the day.
Sleeping pills or even Myprodol + whiskey seemed to help a bit, but it's not something you want to come to rely on.

In the end, making sure I do proper exercise at least 3 times a week and working in a more relaxed environment seems to do the trick better than any of the above.

Stressing about everything is indeed the prime culprit.

When it gets hilarious for me is when people are literally stressing about not sleeping...and then in turn not sleeping because they are stressing about not sleeping.

It's a vicious cycle easily resolved by just not going to bed in the first place...


Let you body tell you when to sleep, don't try to force it into some strange pattern you deep appropriate an it clearly doesn't care for.

You'll have a few rough days at first and then you'll settle down into sleeping when you are tired and amazingly still waking up the next day and wondering why you never tried this before.

Your body isn't a 1:1 system that behaves and perform the same every day so why on earth would it require the exact same sleep every day? For that matter what you've eaten on any given day and at what time exactly will alter everything in relation to how your body performs and what it needs to keep going.

So stop keeping your body to a strict sleeping schedule, just listen to what it's telling you.

There is nothing wrong going with going to bed at 11pm one night and 1am the next and 8pm on the third night. Trust me nobody is magically going to appear in front of you and *** you out for not being in bed by X time.

 

[Suspect99]

Stressing about everything is indeed the prime culprit.

When it gets hilarious for me is when people are literally stressing about not sleeping...and then in turn not sleeping because they are stressing about not sleeping.

It's a vicious cycle easily resolved by just not going to bed in the first place...


Let you body tell you when to sleep, don't try to force it into some strange pattern you deep appropriate an it clearly doesn't care for.

You'll have a few rough days at first and then you'll settle down into sleeping when you are tired and amazingly still waking up the next day and wondering why you never tried this before.

Your body isn't a 1:1 system that behaves and perform the same every day so why on earth would it require the exact same sleep every day? For that matter what you've eaten on any given day and at what time exactly will alter everything in relation to how your body performs and what it needs to keep going.

So stop keeping your body to a strict sleeping schedule, just listen to what it's telling you.

There is nothing wrong going with going to bed at 11pm one night and 1am the next and 8pm on the third night. Trust me nobody is magically going to appear in front of you and *** you out for not being in bed by X time.

What if your body wants to sleep at midnight and wake up at 10 the next day , but you need to be at work at 8

 

[SauRoNZA]

What if your body wants to sleep at midnight and wake up at 10 the next day , but you need to be at work at 8

Like I said you'd need to give it a few days to acclimatize.

You still set an alarm like you always do but you stop this notion of getting X hours of sleep because Google says so.

Within a few days your body will settle into a rhythm. After all it knows your usual schedule of waking up already.

It might not work for everyone, but it's certainly worth trying instead of sticking to something that clearly isn't working and just hoping for the best.

 

[Lupus]

Studies are now showing that working less is actually more beneficial for the company and the individual. But of course companies don't get that logic, how is it possible that you can get more done in four hours then 9.

 

[Bobbin]

Studies are now showing that working less is actually more beneficial for the company and the individual. But of course companies don't get that logic, how is it possible that you can get more done in four hours then 9.

See this again is what confuses me a little. I hear/see these studies time and again. But it seems in contradiction to what the most productive and competitive people actually put in.

 

[Lupus]

See this again is what confuses me a little. I hear/see these studies time and again. But it seems in contradiction to what the most productive and competitive people actually put in.

Being in the same office for 8 to 9 hours a day doesn't mean you're being productive, the really smart and successful people probably put in a few long hours here or there and the rest of the time they are doing smart leisure things. You think Bill Gates puts in 80 hour weeks?

 

[Bobbin]

100 hour work week people aren't family people.
Either they literally are single, or they make massive compromises in simply not being there for their family and making up for it in other ways or not at all.

Well then I'm in the perfect position Single and not really a family or social person at all.

Stop trying to conform to other people's standards on this one. I cannot fathom how people will claim "insomnia" and then simply lie in bed watching the ceiling or whatever. If your body doesn't need to sleep it won't.

I have the opposite problem If I don't force myself to move I could easily sleep for 10 hours straight. If I sleep for 6 hours or less I feel noticeably worse the next morning. My usual sleep hours are somewhere around 9:30pm - 5:30am give or take. If I mess around with that routine then I feel noticeably worse again despite how many hours I get.

For those who do sleep less than 8 hours though, genetic exceptions aside, I've also read about the anabolic properties during later hours of sleep (Hours 6 - 8) and the fact that less than 8 hours isn't usually recommended for health either particularly for those with active lifestyles. Plus I'm sure a car accident or two could be avoided with a little extra alertness (#justatheory ). I used to do late night gaming and fewer sleep hours when I was younger - and my personal alertness when sticking to a better sleep schedule is worlds apart now - even though I figured being tired in the mornings was normal back then.

Though people might say "everybody's different" - I sometimes wonder to what extent really. But who knows.

One thing however I can't fathom is people who travel for hours every day and consider it acceptable. Unless you are doing that travel in a bus/train where you can still do other things while doing it then this really seems like the most counter productive and mundane thing most people seem to do.

Something to consider also is that not all value lies in work and money and often just having more time to yourself is as valuable as money.

Happens to me on occasion that I have to go to clients with urgent problems one after the other and am constantly on the road. Can't be avoided I usually try make the journey worth it by listening to an audiobook or podcast on the way though.

 

[cguy]

I can't find the link, but about 20 years ago I read an article about compound intelligence. They article focused on a researcher who was amazed by how smart one of his colleagues was, and eventually put it down to the fact that this colleague worked (*real* work) one hour longer than the rest of the staff every day. The core insight being that this extra hour improved his colleagues abilities allowing him to "work smarter" the next, meaning that the work done the next day, including yet another extra hour was even more effective, and so on. After a decade or two, the guy became brilliant. I will spend some time trying find the link, I'm not doing it justice.

 

[Bobbin]

Being in the same office for 8 to 9 hours a day doesn't mean you're being productive, the really smart and successful people probably put in a few long hours here or there and the rest of the time they are doing smart leisure things. You think Bill Gates puts in 80 hour weeks?

True. Some exceptions to consider though. i.e. If you're forced to spend 50% of your day on something, may as well go the extra mile and give it your all even further than that. What I mean by this is you're not going to become particularly good or skillful at something in life when you don't give it that 80/20 focus.

Top achievers, when asked if they had to split their day on 3 activities, usually say they'd give up two and put 90 - 100% in one of those - and usually the one they at least have the best skill or position in. Else, as they say, you're just average at everything.

Tricky if your office job or career is a dead end though (But is it really?)

 

[ArtyLoop]

Studies are now showing that working less is actually more beneficial for the company and the individual. But of course companies don't get that logic, how is it possible that you can get more done in four hours then 9.

Its been proven. Over and over again, even in my case.
I am most productive between 11am and 3pm

 

[SauRoNZA]

I have the opposite problem If I don't force myself to move I could easily sleep for 10 hours straight. If I sleep for 6 hours or less I feel noticeably worse the next morning. My usual sleep hours are somewhere around 9:30pm - 5:30am give or take. If I mess around with that routine then I feel noticeably worse again despite how many hours I get.

For those who do sleep less than 8 hours though, genetic exceptions aside, I've also read about the anabolic properties during later hours of sleep (Hours 6 - 8) and the fact that less than 8 hours isn't usually recommended for health either particularly for those with active lifestyles. Plus I'm sure a car accident or two could be avoided with a little extra alertness (#justatheory ). I used to do late night gaming and fewer sleep hours when I was younger - and my personal alertness when sticking to a better sleep schedule is worlds apart now - even though I figured being tired in the mornings was normal back then.

Though people might say "everybody's different" - I sometimes wonder to what extent really. But who knows.



.

Well your problem still fits into my solution of simply listening to what your body wants even if it's towards more hours so it rings even more true.

But it was more applicable to people who don't need the sleep but try to force it.

As for car accidents alertness...well then I anecdotally throw a spanner in there as I ride a motorcycle and haven’t had an accident in 60,000+ kilometres while doing ~6 hours most days.

 

[Bobbin]

Not everyone needs 8 hours sleep a day.
There are people that sleep 4-6hrs a night.
I know cos I'm one of those.
Evrryone's bodies are different and as such their needed sleep patterns differ vastly.
I can easily work 16 hour days, as many of my actual days are approx 20hrs.
Then there are weekends.

So actually it is possible to work more than 100hrs in a 7 day week. Even if you work shorter hours on weekends.

I don't need an alarm. When my eyes open I must get up. I cannot go back to sleep.

If there is a NEED for it I could even skip sleep and even then I won't get more than 6 hours in the next day.
Where many others need days to recover.

Last night I slept a little less than 5 hrs.

Please share your secret, master!

 

[SauRoNZA]

Being in the same office for 8 to 9 hours a day doesn't mean you're being productive, the really smart and successful people probably put in a few long hours here or there and the rest of the time they are doing smart leisure things. You think Bill Gates puts in 80 hour weeks?

I’m sure at some point or another he did put those hours in for long periods.

Now he has no reason to.

But I agree the 8/9 hour push in a single stretch is draining and counter productive.

At the very least the Spanish siesta logic of breaking it up dramatically with a 2 hour lunch break makes all the difference.

It doesn’t apply to all people or all industries though.

 

[Ancalagon]

I can't find the link, but about 20 years ago I read an article about compound intelligence. They article focused on a researcher who was amazed by how smart one of his colleagues was, and eventually put it down to the fact that this colleague worked (*real* work) one hour longer than the rest of the staff every day. The core insight being that this extra hour improved his colleagues abilities allowing him to "work smarter" the next, meaning that the work done the next day, including yet another extra hour was even more effective, and so on. After a decade or two, the guy became brilliant. I will spend some time trying find the link, I'm not doing it justice.

Conversely, there are also a lot of studies that show that when you are tired, your productivity drops quickly, to the point that the total amount of work you can achieve in a 16 hour day just isn't that much. Especially where creativity and lateral thinking is needed - it is best to be rested for that.