ZERO%: New bill to ban drunk driving

ToxicBunny said:
You more than likely do still know people that drink and drive.... they just don't talk about it...

I can almost bet you know a lot of people who will happily go and have 1 or 2 drinks and then call it quits, because they're under the limit and perfectly safe to drive... now they will deemed not to be safe.
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Maybe. But almost everyone I know orders an Uber or walks, even if it is just one or two drinks
 
ToxicBunny said:
Ok, then the current limit is perfectly acceptable, because that is the percentage it works out to.
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Two drinks equals 0.0005%?
In that case I apologise. Any non trivial amount then should be the limit (Lets say one sip of alcohol. Whatever that equates)
 
JStrike said:
Two drinks equals 0.0005%?
In that case I apologise. Any non trivial amount then should be the limit (Lets say one sip of alcohol)
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Yes, 0.0005% Blood Alcohol equates to the current 0.05g per 100ml of blood limit.

Do you not see how ridiculous this new proposed 0% limit actually is if they can't even enforce what they currently have?
 
Nerfherder said:
Walking is way more dangerous.

over 60% of accidents involve pedestrians.
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Ahhh Ok, so now we're getting somewhere.. I wonder if this is not a ploy by government to cull the populace by making more people walk?
 
You have to have a safe, secure, and cost effective taxi service for this to work.

The Irish are THE nation of hardcore drinkers. You see very little drunk driving though. Generally, they take a taxi (not a minibus...a proper taxi) to the town, get hammered, and then either stay in a hotel overnight or take a taxi home. They don't use their own cars when they are going to drink.

The problem for doing that in South Africa is that non-minibus taxis are exorbitantly expensive, as are hotel rates.
 
JStrike said:
Joburg I assume?
Trying to bribe a police officer in Cape Town would be a bad idea (Not saying there are zero corrupt cops here, just that there are so few you wouldn't even think of trying a bribe). I have never even heard of someone trying :)
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Joburg, Pretoria, Thabazimbi, Durban, East London. All those places I frequent and have not seen any change in behavior of people who drink and drive. However, its only Joburg, Pretoria I'm seeing corrupt cops. This is not to say they don't exist at other places but my experience of Joburg, Pretoria = Corrupt cops.
 
dlk001 said:
Joburg, Pretoria, Thabazimbi, Durban, East London. All those places I frequent and have not seen any change in behavior of people who drink and drive. However, its only Joburg, Pretoria I'm seeing corrupt cops. This is not to say they don't exist at other places but my experience of Joburg, Pretoria = Corrupt cops.
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Interesting
 
Greylor said:
You have to have a safe, secure, and cost effective taxi service for this to work.

The Irish are THE nation of hardcore drinkers. You see very little drunk driving though. Generally, they take a taxi (not a minibus...a proper taxi) to the town, get hammered, and then either stay in a hotel overnight or take a taxi home. They don't use their own cars when they are going to drink.

The problem for doing that in South Africa is that non-minibus taxis are exorbitantly expensive, as are hotel rates.
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That's why Uber works so well - generally about R100 per trip for most spots in JHB in a clean luxury car with no fiddling about phoning them, no cash needed! Press the button and hop in <10mins later. Metered taxis are unworkable - they're painfully slow (sometimes 60mins+ to arrive), use filthy old cars that you have to phone to try to explain to them where to find you and on average 3x more expensive. I know there is a bit of a backlash against Uber but it actually works very well and IMHO is doing more than anything else to keep drunk drivers off the roads.
 
CL-West said:
How available is Uber? I know it is available in Cape town, but I don't live in the city but in the northern suburbs.
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Download the App and check.

Pretty sure I've seen them in the Northern Suburbs as well.
 
This should really enhance the solicitation of bribes. Daft to put it at 0%. Lot's of medicines contain alcohol. The limit is fine, just properly enforce it.
 
Vrotappel said:
This should really enhance the solicitation of bribes. Daft to put it at 0%. Lot's of medicines contain alcohol. The limit is fine, just properly enforce it.
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There's alcohol in some chocolates too.

This is a very stupid law and it hampers peoples' liberty more. Now you can't even have one drink.

Forensic expert on Capetalk said that one can drink one drink and hour and remain under the current limit, that's a rough rule of the thumb. Now it's going to be trips to restaurants and friends with not even the dedicated driver being able to have one drink. It's unnecessary encroachment of government into private life. If one drink was considered safe, then it was safe. If it's not safe in a significant way, that's different.
 
Opinion of a district surgeon. Disoriented. Slurred speech. Ataxic. Tremor. Disinhibited.
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I don't think an opinion will stand up in court.

The rest of the symptoms could be a number of syndromes, none of them suggesting intoxication from alcohol.
 
daveza said:
I don't think an opinion will stand up in court.

The rest of the symptoms could be a number of syndromes, none of them suggesting intoxication from alcohol.
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Expert testimony that the person is intoxicated. Life and death decisions are performed daily on basis of this. A doc determines you have some nystagmus and orders a brain CT where a bleed is found which is subsequently treated, or does not and you go home and die from a larger brain bleed.

Sure except organic pathology stays with you, or tends to be pre-existing. Someone who looks drunk and smells of booze and is clinically drunk by expert testimony is drunk. Such a person will not be able to operate a car safely.

Depends on laws but this method is pretty reliable, because it tests the effect and not a level whose effects may overlap among individuals for a given level. Of course it's far less sensitive.
 
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JStrike said:
There is no need to prove that it is scientifically safer. If it results in less consumption of alcohol or less road accidents, then it was worth it
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And if it makes no difference, would they revert it back to the current limit? Somehow I doubt it...
 
JStrike said:
There is no need to prove that it is scientifically safer. If it results in less consumption of alcohol or less road accidents, then it was worth it
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Did you not read the article?

She said that only when there were high conviction rates and effective punishments would drunk driving decrease, pointing out that the legal blood-alcohol level was reduced more than 15 years ago, but road deaths and injuries had increased.
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I'm surprised you think this is a good idea...
 
The proposed new section of law states: “Driving a motor vehicle while under the influence of intoxicating liquor or drugs having a narcotic effect (is) prohibited”.
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So they'll stop trying prosecute people for driving with non-narcotic drugs in their system?

The proposal is that “No person shall on a public road (a) drive a vehicle, or (b) occupy the driver’s seat of a motor vehicle, the engine of which is running, while there is a concentration of alcohol in any specimen of blood taken from any part of his or her body”.
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Well (b) was clearly conceived by idiots.

South Africans Against Drunk Driving said a zero alcohol level was easier for drivers to understand
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No it isn't. It will still be the same situation of knowing when you had your last drink and the expected rate of metabolism. The simple fact is that law changes like this are conceived by idiots who don't understand the problem.
 
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