Zuma gunning for the constitution

Seriously said:
So sir Joelus, where or what is/was the public protector's role and achievements in the Nkandla report and many other criminal and corruption charges before that? What happened?

I always believed that been a brainwashed communist fool is one thing but being stupid with blinkers on is completely another thing all together!
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The fact that the Nkandla report exists at all is testimony to usefulness of the public protector.
We haven't heard the last of it either.

The power of the public protector to "take appropriate remedial action" goes far beyond merely speaking truth to power on behalf of complainants in the form of "recommendations". In the past, and on the public protector's say so, Cabinet ministers have been dismissed and the former chief of police, Bheki Cele, was required to face the Moloi board of inquiry before facing a similar fate. There was much more than mere persuasion involved in these outcomes. Any failure on the part of the government to comply with the recommendations of the public protector could have led to litigation aimed at compelling compliance with the recommendations made.

It was surely the knowledge of this possible eventuality that led to the dismissal of Bheki Cele. Those in power realised that either the complainants against his misconduct and maladministration (or the public protector herself) would easily be able to persuade a court of law that the continuing in office of a person who could see nothing wrong in leasing police headquarters at more than three times the going rental rate would have been irrational, and therefore against the precepts of the rule of law. The past successes of the public protector were achieved, not because the government "has her back' but because it is obliged to regard the rule of law as supreme.

Our independent and impartial courts of law are available both to the public protector and to those who complain successfully to her about maladministration of all kinds. In some instances, the facts uncovered in the investigation of the public protector can most appropriately be taken further by referring her reports to the police and prosecution authorities. In others administrative action is appropriate as, for example, when the Competition Commission may need to investigate a cartel. In still others the machinery of the civil law may be most conveniently used to bring about a just outcome.

This occurred when the leases Cele negotiated were cancelled in order to spare the taxpayers the exorbitant costs involved. Neither Cele nor the landlord wanted this result, but the law coerced the outcome that accords with justice. There is no reason to anticipate anything other than a legally sound outcome to the Nkandla debacle. There are prima facie indications of criminality in the preliminary report. If the public protector is wrong in her findings, she can be taken on review in the high court, if she is right, criminal, administrative and civil consequences could and should flow from her findings. Otherwise "an indispensable constitutional guarantee" will be lost.
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http://mg.co.za/article/2013-12-10-taking-remedial-action-is-part-of-the-public-protectors-arsenal
 
How is Affirmative Action not a form of Apartheid - Telling 'n young white boy born post '94 that he is not allowed to have any aspirations to ever become a manager, if he can find employment, purey based on his skin colour and gender?
 
OrbitalDawn said:
It doesn't tell them that.
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When last have you spoken to young guys trying to find a job, not the lucky one's who can afford a college on university qualification?
Even worse that then are the middle aged guys that got retrenched, a guy applied for a job with us and he showed me his e-mail log of CV sent and he sends out hundreds without much reply beck. So no nobody told any of them officially they can't have a job, but the reality is different.
 
Roelie said:
When last have you spoken to young guys trying to find a job, not the lucky one's who can afford a college on university qualification?
Even worse that then are the middle aged guys that got retrenched, a guy applied for a job with us and he showed me his e-mail log of CV sent and he sends out hundreds without much reply beck. So no nobody told any of them officially they can't have a job, but the reality is different.
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White people are more likely to get a job than other races, whatever reality you believe.
 
Roelie said:
When last have you spoken to young guys trying to find a job, not the lucky one's who can afford a college on university qualification?
Even worse that then are the middle aged guys that got retrenched, a guy applied for a job with us and he showed me his e-mail log of CV sent and he sends out hundreds without much reply beck. So no nobody told any of them officially they can't have a job, but the reality is different.
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Maybe they are just not suitable for the jobs they are applying for.
Now they have to compete with more people for limited jobs, obviously some are going to remain unemployed.
What you've written above it true for many South Africans, irrespective of race.
 
Zenbaas said:
Do you honestly believe that the only thing wrong with the anc is Zuma...? REALLY? Themba990;11869570 open your eyes my man. There is theft and corruption at all levels of government. When corruption is exposed the anc tries to cover it up. The whole organisation is sick to its core. The anc of old is not the anc of today. Everyone wants part of the pie at the expense of poor people. They don't give a flying **** about you or your family. Looks what happens when they catch criminals like Shabir Shaik and Selebi.... They send them home on "medical" grounds. Open your eyes. Not a single party in SA will bring back apartheid. No one will allow that to happen. But vote elsewhere... The anc is bleeding us dry at this rate. Don't vote with your heart... Vote with your head.
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And the ANC of the future will not be the ANC of today.
 
Roelie said:
When last have you spoken to young guys trying to find a job, not the lucky one's who can afford a college on university qualification?
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Often. The playing fields are more leveled regarding lower-skilled work, as whites previously had legislative protection. That's why so many worked for Transnet, Telkom, Eskom etc. The jobs were reserved for them.

And I know plenty of people with no formal tertiary qualification. They all have work. It might not be that easy to get a job, and it might not always be as awesome as you want, but it isn't for anyone at the moment.

How often do you speak to black university graduates who also can't find a job, often for years? It's another part of our economy at the moment.

Roelie said:
Even worse that then are the middle aged guys that got retrenched, a guy applied for a job with us and he showed me his e-mail log of CV sent and he sends out hundreds without much reply beck. So no nobody told any of them officially they can't have a job, but the reality is different.
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As I said, it's difficult for everyone. It sucks that people are being used as pawns in a social engineering game.

I don't agree with the way AA/BEE is generally implemented by any means, but saying AA is akin to apartheid is just plain wrong. Whites still have the highest income and the lowest unemployment rate of any group in SA.

Are there many white people struggling to find work? Yeah, but welcome to 2014 SA, everyone is.
 
R13... said:
White people are more likely to get a job than other races, whatever reality you believe.
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Depending on industry and position, ultimately the responsibility, various variants (education, skills, characteristics etc.) play a role here, yes even colour depending on the market (and in certain cases niche). The likelihood however is problematic when you have quality vs. quantity... look at the latest matric debacle.
 
Roelie said:
When last have you spoken to young guys trying to find a job, not the lucky one's who can afford a college on university qualification?
Even worse that then are the middle aged guys that got retrenched, a guy applied for a job with us and he showed me his e-mail log of CV sent and he sends out hundreds without much reply beck. So no nobody told any of them officially they can't have a job, but the reality is different.
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I am an unqualified engineer with years of experience.
This has really not been a hurdle for me though.
I am doing very well in this industry regardless.

Not saying to a certain degree that you aren't right but it's not a hard and fast rule.
Some companies are equity employers, my current company is.
I did however still get a good job here.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Is there a reason you're not actually responding to anything substantively? Is it because you know know, deep down, that the ANC is a rotten organisation? Nah, you probably just can't think of anything to say.
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Personally I think the rot is at the top, not the core.
I believe the rot can be cut off and removed, that the ANC can once again become a party for the people.
 
joelus said:
Personally I think the rot is at the top, not the core.
I believe the rot can be cut off and removed, that the ANC can once again become a party for the people.
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Really? :wtf:

I don't think so. The rot gets to the top through the core. The people that get elected to the NEC are voted into their position by the ANC rank and file. They're the ones putting the rot there!

And how do you reckon the rot will be cut away? By who?
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Really? :wtf:

I don't think so. The rot gets to the top through the core. The people that get elected to the NEC are voted into their position by the ANC rank and file. They're the ones putting the rot there!

And how do you reckon the rot will be cut away? By who?
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I think the Zuma faction was strong and kicked out Mbeki who, IMO, still had and has integrity.
Mbeki made serious errors in judgement around HIV and this gave the Zuma faction what it needed to topple him.
The strength behind Zuma's ascension has broken down though and scattered and many previous allies have become critical and disillusioned with him. I hope I'm right anyway! The ANC will remain in power for some time to come still and the only real hope we have is that the rot can be cut out and removed though I admit I've no idea who it would be to do this, Some young up and coming cadres hopefully...
 
joelus said:
I think the Zuma faction was strong and kicked out Mbeki who, IMO, still had and has integrity.
Mbeki made serious errors in judgement around HIV and this gave the Zuma faction what it needed to topple him.
The strength behind Zuma's ascension has broken down though and scattered and many previous allies have become critical and disillusioned with him. I hope I'm right anyway! The ANC will remain in power for some time to come still and the only real hope we have is that the rot can be cut out and removed though I admit I've no idea who it would be to do this, Some young up and coming cadres hopefully...
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The last one turned into a lapdog which happened to received rabies, kicked out and started his own kennel.
 
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