Boycott TelkomInternet, and revolutionise the ADSL market in RSA!!

I

InTheCube

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To the myBB community

I would like to share my thoughts with you about TelkomInternet - the ISP division of Telkom, and hopefully start an informative, interesting and constructive discussion...

There seem to be many new (and current) ADSL subscribers coming to myBB to seek advice with regards to choosing an ISP, or changing current ISPs. My personal opinion is that myBB as a community should be advising them to stay away from TelkomInternet (TI) - far far away!

My reasoning is that we alll know how anti-competetive Telkom is. They have been and continue to charge other ISPs more for wholesale bandwidth then it does for its own ISP - TelkomInternet.

Also, with regards to the bundled packages (Do Broadband, Do Broadband Closer) - these packages are only cheaper than other ISPs (packages < 5GB) because Telkom cross-subsidises them with their other services (like voice line rental, ADSL line rental, voice services, etc).

Instead, we should be supporting all the other ISPs out there who are trying really hard, and are bringing out very innovative and competitive products, even while TI continues with its anti-competitive practices and cross-subsidisation. I mean, TI doesn't even know what the word "uncapped" means. They barstardised the term in the ADSL regulations many years ago, and came out with their own meaning. Their business tactics have always been to obscure, delay, intentionally misinterpret, and oppress. In an ideal competitive market with a good regulatory environment, Telkom would be punished for this. But this has never happened, and looks like it never will, thanks to our great rainbow guavament, the DoC, Poison Ivy's legacy, and ICASA....

I say we should boycott TelkomInternet, and support all our other local ISPs who are trying really hard, providing great service, billing and support, have good IP networks and systems, and are still able to offer better prices and more innovative products and services than TI.

They deserve our support!

And with our help and support, these ISPs will revolutionalise the ADSL market, and hopefully the internet, in RSA. Trust me, Telkom and TI will NOT be the ones to effect any major change in this market. History has shown this to us time and time again. Even Vodacom/MTN surpassed Telkom a few years ago with regards to the number of broadband clients, even with the thousands of kilometers of fibre and copper networks that Telkom is always boasting about on TV.

Yes we still have to use Telkom for the ADSL line, as there are no other alternatives (yet), and the fact is that wired connections will always out-perform wireless. You just can't beat the speed of light, or the reliability of a wired connection. But we can boycott Telkom's ISP - TelkomInternet - as we have so many other alternatives, and excellent alernatives I might add.

Everyone might say that DigiChilli and Screamer made a royal mess of things by launching low cost uncapped without proper testing, service, or support, and screwed alot of people over. But because of these 2 companies, it forced all the other ISPs to rethink their strategies and products. Now, almost every other major ISP has either released low cost uncapped packages, or are testing it, or are sh*tting bricks wondering how they gonna survive without it (except TI of course).

So we need to force TI into sh*tting bricks as well... Don't support them! And advise others to avoid them - from other myBB forumites and noobs, to friends, family, and colleagues. Most people don't know any better.

Cancel your TelkomInternet accounts, and switch to another ISP! In most cases you'll end up saving money too!

Let's start a revolution!
 
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I've been supporting it already, because I refuse to touch telkomInternet with a 11 foot pole. I only have ADSL because there is no other decent alternative, and even that I get through a local reseller ISP.
 
It won't help, we have to have everyone doing it at the same time, until then.. :(
So get this big, have all of MyBB part of it, I'll join in
 
i agree, but Isps like Axxess and others are not interested in competing with the new lower end providers and have made no price reductions, and my guess is they are waiting for telscum to launch 8mb/s and only then will we see a small drop as they will make their top end package - 8mb, the new way to rape a customer, telkom are a joke no doubt but the isps are just as bad
 
I dunno hey guys. Very idealistic plan you've come up with and all but there's still a major problem. Even if everyone boycotted TI they would still make a ton of money (perhaps not as much but enough for them not to worry) on IPConnect fees from the ISPs you guys are supporting.

Also, we don't live in a theoretical economic world. If Telkom get fed up with all of us leaving they simply cut costs, other ISPs go bankrupt and they have a monopoly again. I think the bandwidth market is currently pretty remarkable and a lot of progress has been made. Anyway, enough with the theory.

I think this is a case of
"How do you kill a snake?"
"Cut off its head."

This revolution needs to be finetuned a little bit. Somehow or other Telkom either have to get over the whole IPConnect thing or stop charging us for line rental. I think LLU is going to take care of this but I'm not too clued up.

If I were in charge, I would split Telkom, SAIX and TelkomInternet into three different companies with no ties to each other. That would be ideal.

Anyway, good luck with the revolution. I'll spread the word
 
ToxicWazte said:
To the myBB community

I would like to share my thoughts with you about TelkomInternet - the ISP division of Telkom, and hopefully start an informative, interesting and constructive discussion...

There seem to be many new (and current) ADSL subscribers coming to myBB to seek advice with regards to choosing an ISP, or changing current ISPs. My personal opinion is that myBB as a community should be advising them to stay away from TelkomInternet (TI) - far far away!

My reasoning is that we alll know how anti-competetive Telkom is. They have been and continue to charge other ISPs more for wholesale bandwidth then it does for its own ISP - TelkomInternet.

Also, with regards to the bundled packages (Do Broadband, Do Broadband Closer) - these packages are only cheaper than other ISPs (packages < 5GB) because Telkom cross-subsidises them with their other services (like voice line rental, ADSL line rental, voice services, etc).

Instead, we should be supporting all the other ISPs out there who are trying really hard, and are bringing out very innovative and competitive products, even while TI continues with its anti-competitive practices and cross-subsidisation. I mean, TI doesn't even know what the word "uncapped" means. They barstardised the term in the ADSL regulations many years ago, and came out with their own meaning. Their business tactics have always been to obscure, delay, intentionally misinterpret, and oppress. In an ideal competitive market with a good regulatory environment, Telkom would be punished for this. But this has never happened, and looks like it never will, thanks to our great rainbow guavament, the DoC, Poison Ivy's legacy, and ICASA....

I say we should boycott TelkomInternet, and support all our other local ISPs who are trying really hard, providing great service, billing and support, have good IP networks and systems, and are still able to offer better prices and more innovative products and services than TI.

They deserve our support!

And with our help and support, these ISPs will revolutionalise the ADSL market, and hopefully the internet, in RSA. Trust me, Telkom and TI will NOT be the ones to effect any major change in this market. History has shown this to us time and time again. Even Vodacom/MTN surpassed Telkom a few years ago with regards to the number of broadband clients, even with the thousands of kilometers of fibre and copper networks that Telkom is always boasting about on TV.

Yes we still have to use Telkom for the ADSL line, as there are no other alternatives (yet), and the fact is that wired connections will always out-perform wireless. You just can't beat the speed of light, or the reliability of a wired connection. But we can boycott Telkom's ISP - TelkomInternet - as we have so many other alternatives, and excellent alernatives I might add.

Everyone might say that DigiChilli and Screamer made a royal mess of things by launching low cost uncapped without proper testing, service, or support, and screwed alot of people over. But because of these 2 companies, it forced all the other ISPs to rethink their strategies and products. Now, almost every other major ISP has either released low cost uncapped packages, or are testing it, or are sh*tting bricks wondering how they gonna survive without it (except TI of course).

So we need to force TI into sh*tting bricks as well... Don't support them! And advise others to avoid them - from other myBB forumites and noobs, to friends, family, and colleagues. Most people don't know any better.

Cancel your TelkomInternet accounts, and switch to another ISP! In most cases you'll end up saving money too!

Let's start a revolution!
Click to expand...

Although I have sympathy with your viewpoint regarding the fact that some of TI's actions can be construed as "anti-competitive" I do not believe that either of the two points in bold above have been reliably proven to be true.

AFAIK TI internally is seen as a separate profit centre and any products offered need to be self sustaining. Their one major advantage is that they have effectively captured the majority of the general uninformed public market due to their linked position to Telkom. However things are changing due to the availability of more and more options on the wholesale front and I suspect things will change in any event. Certainly where any other ISP can offer better rates and service than TI I have no hesitation in recommending and using them
 
Hmmm... I like my TI account, nice international plus uber local combo, I support Afrihost as well but I doubt I will drop TI unless there is an int+local combo thats cheaper???
 
Im In ....
also they release a 4G wireless in Norway and it can reach up to 100Mbps

So suck on that TELKOM
 
Already boycotted Telkom for years now when I had my landline cancelled due to their expensive and crap service. They will never ever get another cent of my money directly from me. AFAIC they can F O A D and go straight to hell.
 
Ok you rich people can boycott them, but considering the DO3 package is cheaper then a just 4mbs line, looks like I wont be....
 
Zenbaas said:
Rich...? Ya ok dude:erm::rolleyes:
Click to expand...

what I meant is that beggers can't be chooses, if we don't have money to throw away, we have to pick the best we can, and not only telkom subsidises, remember what Afrihost did?
 
Tpex said:
what I meant is that beggers can't be chooses, if we don't have money to throw away, we have to pick the best we can, and not only telkom subsidises, remember what Afrihost did?
Click to expand...

You obviously have absolutely no clue what cross-subsidisation means.
 
ToxicWazte said:
You obviously have absolutely no clue what cross-subsidisation means.
Click to expand...

Tpex said:
why don't you explain then? I know what subsidisation is.....
Click to expand...

Here it comes.....

Cross subsidization is the practice of charging higher prices to one group of consumers in order to subsidize lower prices for another group.
Click to expand...
Source

The practice of using profits generated from one product or service to support another provided by the same operating entity.
Click to expand...
Source

And the best explanation, in relation to the current context:

In the ICT sector, it is common for firms to supply a number of services. Network operators generally sell services in both competitive and non-competitive markets.

A firm with market power in one area may charge a high price for non-competitive services and use the proceeds to subsidize low prices for competitive services.

If the firm breaks even overall, a given service receives a subsidy if it does not generate sufficient revenue to cover its total service long run incremental cost (TSLRIC).

For example take an incumbent firm with market power in the provision of long distance calls. The incumbent could use its market power to charge high prices to long distance customers, and use the excess revenue to support low prices for internet access and undercut competing internet access providers.

By cross-subsidizing competitive services, a telecommunications firm can:

* Ensure that it covers its overall costs, including fixed costs, and
* Strengthen the firm's competitive position where it matters most, namely in the supply of its more competitive products.

Cross-subsidization will only maximize the firm’s profitability if the resulting gain in market share in the competitive market outweighs the loss in revenue from the reduced price. This is because the firm could still increase prices for the non-competitive service, even if it did not subsidize the competitive service. So its next best option would be to increase the non-competitive price and keep the resulting revenue
Click to expand...
Source

So what Telkom does is charge higher prices to
- other ADSL ISPs for SAIX bandwidth (resellers)
- other ADSL ISPs for IPC
- ADSL subsribers for voice Line Rental and ADSL line rental.

The above high prices are then used to cross-subsidise services from its own ISP, TI, offering the following at a lower cross-subsidized price:
- SAIX bandwidth
- TI's customers for ADSL line rental, voice line rental and bandwidth (I'm referring to the all in one packages - DO Broadband & DO Broadband Closer)

I don't see where Afrihost using their marketing budget to subsidise a lower price for bandwidth fits into this? You simply can't compare it.

Now the funny thing is that the Do Broadband packages are still alot more expensive than Afrihost and other ISPs for anything bigger than a 5GB account. This is because TI's topup price is R65 per GB.

And it seems that many people have been conned into thinking that the 30GB free local data is actually worth something. It's not. You first have to burn through your blended cap (local + international) to be able to use the 30GB local. Once you reach this point, you now have no access to international content. Some people see this as a GREAT offer, and bow down to TI in gratitude, and defend them vehemently.

Now I used to use 3.5gb per month with iBurst, coz I was limited to it by my budget. But then I switched to ADSL and used Afrihost, and was spending roughly the same for 10GB. After getting a small taste of what broadband really is, I wanted more. So I switched to the SAOL 384K all-in-one uncapped account, at a slightly lower price, and I have already downloaded 10GB in the 6 days that I am signed up. I will probably end up using 60+ GB by the end of the month. Other users who max their line out 24/7 are getting closer to 120GB per month. Now compare this to anything that Telkom or TelkomInternet has brought us? 30GB free local is a rip-off compared to this. Like I said before, TI doesn't even know what uncapped means.

So we need to stop supporting Telkom - especially TelkomInternet, and its monopolistic tactics of bundling, cross-subsidisation and unfair business practices, and start supporting ISPs that make a difference.

Some of the ISPs that are doing great things for ADSL broadband:
- Afrihost (R29 per GB capped accounts)
- Screamer (lower cost uncapped, R23 per GB capped accounts)
- DigiChilli (lower cost uncapped - services are still not stable though last I heard.
- Cybersmart (lots of great innovative products - around for quite some time)
- SAOL (384K uncapped all-in-one)
- WebAfrica (waiting for 1 March to see new packages on their new Tier 1 network - but they have been great for us in the past)
- MyISP (R60 for 3GB accounts)
- Axxess (have done great things in the past - waiting for new packages to be launched)
- OpenWeb (currently trialling uncapped)

Support these ISPs, and avoid TelkomInternet!
 
I read (&reread) the OP but I still fail to see what you want to achieve. What's the end goal here?

TelkomInternet has a business model. If you don't like it, don't use it. But please don't tell everyone to follow in your footsteps. An example: I'm not a fan of MyISP. Sure they offer 3GB for R60 but wait until you have to top up. I think it's ridiculous but you don't see me organizing a boycott.

This is all just my opinion so I could be wrong but I still believe the only way to make a change is LLU. Unfortunately boycotting Telkom is not going to speed that up so, from my point of view, this is all an excersize in futility.

However if you explain what it is you want to achieve, you might change my mind in which case I will be glad to spend more on connectivity and receive less each month (no sarcasm, telling it how it is)
 
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