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Messugga said:
It happens though. Again, approval was needed to make me an offer. Approval was obtained but the exec had to fight for it and motivate the living daylights out of it.
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Why? You have this huge gun and massive skill set. Why did someone have to fight so hard for you? Skills that you claim, mind us all, that no one else alive has. But someone had to fight and motivate the living daylights out of your appointment? Something appears rotten in Denmark.
 
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pinball wizard said:
Why? You have this huge gun and massive skill set. Why did someone have to fight so hard for you? Skills that you claim, mind us all, that no one else alive has. But someone had to fight and motivate the lining daylights out of your appointment? Something appears rotten in Denmark.
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Because the position is of a certain rank and required board approval because I'm a pale male? The execs wanted me but the higher up guys wanted to rather hire a few people to do the same job.

You realise that in an organisation of 20+k people, there are multiple layers of senior management, right? Your business might want you but you still need to get past group.
 
Messugga said:
Because the position is of a certain rank and required board approval because I'm a pale male? The execs wanted me but the higher up guys wanted to rather hire a few people to do the same job.
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So maybe give us insight into this, rather than swing your big gun in our faces?

Is it also possible that certain positions at higher levels (I refrain from the word "rank" in corporate settings) require board approval as a matter of good corporate governance anyway?

Although re-reading your posts, I don't think that you'd be in one of those positions.
 
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pinball wizard said:
So maybe give us insight into this, rather than swing your big gun in our faces?

Is it also possible that certain positions at higher levels (I refrain from the word "rank" in corporate settings) require board approval as a matter of good corporate governance anyway?
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Insight into what? I was told straight that the goal is to get more black women into that level of the company and that I do not fit into that criteria,thus the requirement for approval. They have a whitelist if criteria that doesn't require quite the same process - essentially to fast track the process so as to not lose the candidate.
 
Nerfherder said:
have a policy against hiring white people.
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Isn't that jumping to conclusions a bit?

Maybe they are already 85% white and that's why they implemented this now to try and balance the numbers.

Would it still be a problem if they had more whites currently employed than their peers?
 
Messugga said:
You realise that in an organisation of 20+k people, there are multiple layers of senior management, right? Your business might want you but you still need to get past group.
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Full disclosure, I have worked at Old Mutual. I only left two years ago. I am well aware of corporate dynamics at large organisations, and have some insight into Old Mutual.
 
pinball wizard said:
Full disclosure, I have worked at Old Mutual. I only left two years ago. I am well aware of corporate dynamics at large organisations, and have some insight into Old Mutual.
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I didn't say this was at Old Mutual. I said this is at a different corporate not in any way regards to Old Mutual.
 
Mike Hoxbig said:
Oh no! Look at the sad state of affairs of the white person in SA. Only 8/12 white people in the top management positions :(

View attachment 326291

Trust me if a company wants to hire (or promote) a white person, they will make a plan. There is no crisis. This is the kind of thing that gets your average News24 reader fuming, but any rational person knows that it's not as bad as it's being made out to be...
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Fusk me Steve Carell works at Old Mutual. That means The Office was filmed there! It all makes sense now.
 
Messugga said:
Insight into what? I was told straight that the goal is to get more black women into that level of the company and that I do not fit into that criteria,thus the requirement for approval. They have a whitelist if criteria that doesn't require quite the same process - essentially to fast track the process so as to not lose the candidate.
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More along the lines of this post? Not to belittle the guns and things, but an actual discussion of this?
 
SauRoNZA said:
Isn't that jumping to conclusions a bit?

Maybe they are already 85% white and that's why they implemented this now to try and balance the numbers.

Would it still be a problem if they had more whites currently employed than their peers?
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That's exactly what I expect. They have decided the easiest way to get the numbers right it to do this.

I don't want to support companies who think like this.
You hire a person and a skill, not a coloured body
 
Messugga said:
Insight into what? I was told straight that the goal is to get more black women into that level of the company and that I do not fit into that criteria,thus the requirement for approval. They have a whitelist if criteria that doesn't require quite the same process - essentially to fast track the process so as to not lose the candidate.
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ChocolateBadger said:
Fusk me Steve Carell works at Old Mutual. That means The Office was filmed there! It all makes sense now.
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:D
 
There is no problem with AA if it is implemented in rational manner.
Unfortunately it became numbers game.
Government institutions are doing it for many years now and private sector will follow.
Main issue is that unsuitable candidate gets appointed and even worse posts are left open if suitable AA candidate is not found.
Posts are left open mostly in instances where you need to have certain level of education and where it is not possible to lower it down.
Like no matric for CEO of public company (SABC).
Result is that services for poor people are failing.
Truth of the matter is that SA needs every warm body that can perform their duties with integrity, knowledge and experience regardless of their color.
 
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Hi to all

Please jump off your bandwagons.

From my understanding every business in the Old Mutual group has a EE plan to ensure that appointments of qualified people takes place in line with the targets that these companies themselves has set. Any deviations from the plans has to be signed off at the correct levels to ensure that there is no lip service being paid to the EE plan and to ensure that the companies stick to the plan they themselves has set. There are serious reputational and compliance issues attached to not meeting their own targets.

Old Mutual is not government - they will not appoint someone of colour just because....and also keep in mind that they are not saying NO to white appointments.

We have to realise that this country of ours has certain realities that needs to be addressed in the RIGHT way (not SAA/SABC/any generic government owned company's way).

Just my 2c.
 
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