3G is absolute rubbish

[Grouter]

The continuous ping has to come from your end:It will use up your data, but you can simply close the Command Prompt window when you don't need the ping [e.g. when you step away from your PC].

About the LEDs on the E220, the cyan colour indicates that the modem is using the HSDPA modulation to communicate with a base-station, and IIRC the blue colour indicates that [searchforum]"vanilla-3G"[/searchforum] modulation is being used - I suspect at times when a base-station is forced to implement [searchforum]"cell breathing"[/searchforum], I don't think the LED colour is a good indication of what is happening at the IP layer.

Will try the ping thing just now, but if, as you say: "I don't think the LED colour is a good indication of what is happening at the IP layer" then my observations are meaningless in respect of the lights on the modem. I seriously doubt it's cell breathing - this is almost a one horse town, and I think I'm one of a very few using Vodacom as an ISP here. Even at Xmas time, with the thousands of extra tourists around, my internet experience is unaffected. And the tower is only 200m away - like I say, 5 bar signal strength at all times.

Perhaps it's just in the nature of wireless technology?

Edit: just tried continuous ping. Yip, keeps the connection active and cyan light on, no doubt about it. But every ping = 32 bytes. That could be 50 to 100 Mb in a month by my rough calculations.
Checked some of the posts in your links: the handover thing from hsdpa to 3g is I think what is going on here, with the delays I'm experiencing in page loads and network requests a result of the data flow interruption in the hsdpa / 3g handover process.

Edit2: Tried forcing "HSDPA only" profile in Mobile Partner: This request from my end seems to fall on deaf ears on the network - without the continuous ping, the modem still keeps falling back to the 3g (dark blue light) profile.

 

[ginggs]

Edit2: Tried forcing "HSDPA only" profile in Mobile Partner: This request from my end seems to fall on deaf ears on the network - without the continuous ping, the modem still keeps falling back to the 3g (dark blue light) profile.

AFAIK, HSDPA and HSUPA are are only active while data is being transmitted, the devices I've experimented with always drop to 3G during periods of inactivity.

 

[vodacom3g]

AFAIK, HSDPA and HSUPA are are only active while data is being transmitted, the devices I've experimented with always drop to 3G during periods of inactivity.

Yup, they all idle in '3G' and will switch into HS when needed.

If keeping the modem in HS resolves the problem it does point to a firmware issue with the modem, or better put; a firmware version that might have a compatability issue with the network.

 

[Yotch]

There is a related discussion in the Neotel forum about how to keep your connection alive. If you can't solve the problem then software such as StayAlive Pro which is designed specifically for this purpose might allow you to reduce the unnecessary data wastage.
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=136611&page=2&highlight=trick

StayAlive Pro
http://www.download.com/BySoft-StayAlive-Pro/3000-2155_4-10046204.html?cdlPid=10794087

 

[Grouter]

Yup, they all idle in '3G' and will switch into HS when needed.

If keeping the modem in HS resolves the problem it does point to a firmware issue with the modem, or better put; a firmware version that might have a compatability issue with the network.

"Yup, they all idle in '3G' and will switch into HS when needed." - and it's during the 'handover' process from 3g to hsdpa and back again that the connection is being disrupted?

"a firmware version that might have a compatability issue with the network." - is this why the official line is always 'go with the latest version of VMC', even though users like me prefer the speed, simplicity and the-fact-that-it-just-plain-works huawei software (ie: Mobile Connect)?

Am I correct in assuming that you are inferring that Mobile Connect is perhaps not the ideal solution for clients on Vodacom's network?

 

[vodacom3g]

"Yup, they all idle in '3G' and will switch into HS when needed." - and it's during the 'handover' process from 3g to hsdpa and back again that the connection is being disrupted?

"a firmware version that might have a compatability issue with the network." - is this why the official line is always 'go with the latest version of VMC', even though users like me prefer the speed, simplicity and the-fact-that-it-just-plain-works huawei software (ie: Mobile Connect)?

Am I correct in assuming that you are inferring that Mobile Connect is perhaps not the ideal solution for clients on Vodacom's network?

No, not really. There are two bits of software involved here; 1) The firmware on the modem and 2) The software on the PC.

The firmware is the clever bit, negotiating with the network, setting up actual network the connection, managing the handover between 2G, 3G, etc. while the software (Mobile Connect, VMC, VMC Lite, etc.) really only instructs the firmware to connect to the network.

We've had reports here that the software or 'dashboard' has an affect on the connection quality but I've always been a bit doubtful of this. Different versions might be quicker in setting up the connection and might be less fat with fewer drivers but I would always make sure I use the latest (Vodacom tested) firmware on the modem.

 

[Grouter]

It's been a while since I fiddled with my e220, because since installing mobile connect ( I was under the impression that the firmware came bundled with it by huawei and was flashed to the device at the same time that the software was installed on the pc?) I've had a relatively trouble-free experience. A couple of months ago a forumite raved about the new version of vmc and vmc lite, and so I decided to try them out. Bad move - what followed was 24 hours of hell. Couldn't connect, couldn't find device, slow speeds, timeouts, taking forever to find the modem, blue screens (if there's one thing that convinces me that a device or a piece of software is bad it's when it blue screens me), would not exit the program, froze the computer, etc, etc - you name it, I had it. And on my desktop and notebook. After removing everything on both computers relating to vodafone, vmc, etc and re-installing mobile connect while - I believe this is what I was doing - re-flashing the modem firmware with whatever comes bundled with mobile partner - normality was resumed. Click>connect> online. 3 secs. Sanity returned.

So yeah, I'll live with the relatively minor issue of the 3g to hsdpa switching problems and the delays and just watch my pretty blue lights changing and never touch vmc again. No-one is ever going to convince me that vmc is better because for me I'm afraid it just isn't.

Edit: I never actually even start mobile partner - I just connect using the dial-up connection in my network connections folder. So I have to assume that whatever firmware comes bundled with the mobile partner download is what the e220 is using. (11.110.05.00.00 is what mobile partner reports it as) **

edit: **which I now see is what's offered by vc for download as their latest firmware.

 

[Bismuth]

I have no problem with 3G, my speeds vary according to the time of day and location of sites that I am visiting, much like the old dial-up modems, but at much higher speeds.

My E220 does idle in 3G mode, but the moment something needs doing, it changes to HSDPA, never takes more than a few seconds, sometimes it is almost instantaneous.

The only thing is that VMC now crashes in Windows, after I have removed the pin no. in order to use the modem in Linux, without using the Beta driver that has come out for Linux. I can still connect with VMC, but will then have to use the Network Connections menu to disconnect.

I will try this Mobile Partner app., but don't know if I use Windows enough to bother downloading it.

B

 

[Iam3G]

Years ago, when I was still a customer using WBS' iBurst service, it became necessary [for several iBurst forumites including myself], to run a continuous ping [24*7] to get a few kilobits/s of throughput - not a bursty implementation of the iBurst standard IMO.

To a lesser extent, it seems like a continuous ping is sometimes necessary in some areas for some of Vodacom's HSPA customers - at least to workaround the actual problem.

My advice, is that forumites experiencing the effects of 'the sleepy modem syndrome', should at least try a continuous ping to see if it does workaround the actual problem, and if it does, then they should seriously consider helping v3g and Vodacom's network engineers so that the cause and solution to the actual problem can be found and implemented.

Not that i'm complaining(as Vodacom's 3G Service works wonderful 90% of the time for me), but this 'idle' mode the modem goes into has an effect on online Gaming.

For example WoW. Some would agree that playing an online game is equal to having a continuous ping? As data is always being transfered.

But then suddenly after a while of playing modem goes over to 3G, i get disconnected form the Game Server, while still being connected by the way. I think i have noted this issue before in a thread.

 

[Grouter]

If a customer is on a HSDPA package, paying HSDPA rates and is expecting HSDPA speeds, is there not some way that they can get onto and stay on the HSDPA network? Surely eventually edge and GPRS and then sometime even 3g will fall away, as will analogue TV, 56k modems and VHS video tapes, leaving us with the latest and greatest technology until the next big thing comes along. It seems to me that being forced to compromise by continuing to run the older legacy technologies side by side with the latest is a major headache for not only the customers but vc and the like as well.

I recognise that infrastructure (tower and equipment upgrades, telkom backhaul links, handsets and other consumer devices, etc) cannot keep up, forcing the retention of gprs and edge, and to a lesser extent, 3g, but what about those towers that are HSDPA enabled and the users on them who want to use HSDPA exclusively? Can a plan be made?

 

[Bedford]

For continuous ping i use this command, it helps to keep hsdpa with very low usage:
ping www.google.com -t -l 2 (l with the 2 being the packet size, so this makes it small enough not to matter).

The problem for me is a time of day, which is always 19:00->23:00 at least monday to thursday. With Sunday nights being bad and end of month being the worst.

 

[vodacom3g]

If a customer is on a HSDPA package, paying HSDPA rates and is expecting HSDPA speeds, is there not some way that they can get onto and stay on the HSDPA network? Surely eventually edge and GPRS and then sometime even 3g will fall away, as will analogue TV, 56k modems and VHS video tapes, leaving us with the latest and greatest technology until the next big thing comes along. It seems to me that being forced to compromise by continuing to run the older legacy technologies side by side with the latest is a major headache for not only the customers but vc and the like as well.

I recognise that infrastructure (tower and equipment upgrades, telkom backhaul links, handsets and other consumer devices, etc) cannot keep up, forcing the retention of gprs and edge, and to a lesser extent, 3g, but what about those towers that are HSDPA enabled and the users on them who want to use HSDPA exclusively? Can a plan be made?

In this case, it's not that we're supporting an 'older' technology. HSDPA IS 3G, (there are no separate 3G and HSDPA networks) so this idling in '3G' (better termed as R99) is part of the spec.

Resources on the air interface is extremely scarce (remember spectrum is limited), so it would not make sense to keep these resources tied up when they're not needed.

The modem should come out of R99 very quickly. If it does not, we must rather sort that out.

 

[Grouter]

In this case, it's not that we're supporting an 'older' technology. HSDPA IS 3G, (there are no separate 3G and HSDPA networks) so this idling in '3G' (better termed as R99) is part of the spec.

Resources on the air interface is extremely scarce (remember spectrum is limited), so it would not make sense to keep these resources tied up when they're not needed.

The modem should come out of R99 very quickly. If it does not, we must rather sort that out.

Thanks for the clarification on that.

I guess the e220 is getting a bit long in the tooth now, being a 1st gen 3g device. I would hazard a guess that this r99 / hsdpa switchover business isn't an issue with, say, the e272.

Will experiment with the continuous ping thing with bedford's switch in the command.

 

[vodacom3g]

Thanks for the clarification on that.

I guess the e220 is getting a bit long in the tooth now, being a 1st gen 3g device. I would hazard a guess that this r99 / hsdpa switchover business isn't an issue with, say, the e272.

Will experiment with the continuous ping thing with bedford's switch in the command.

It's still a great modem. do you see a distinct slowdown in coming out of R99? If so, how much and when do you think it started?

 

[Grouter]

It's still a great modem. do you see a distinct slowdown in coming out of R99? If so, how much and when do you think it started?

Sometimes yes - typically the delay from the moment I click a url to the modem switching to hsdpa (cyan light) and sending my request along is 3 to sometimes 10 seconds. Sometimes it just doesn't switch. But I still can't reconcile this behaviour with what has been said above - that the dark blue light signifies it's on R99 and the cyan light coming on signifies it has ramped up to hsdpa speed. If it was on R99 / 3G, whatever, well - that's a network, isn't it? I have an ip, so why is there no data transfer? Firefox times out. (BTW, the behaviour is identical in ie and opera, so this isn't a browser issue). Clicking the link once more jabs the thing in the ribs again, this time hard enough to wake it up, and off it goes on it's merry way looking for the url.

As for when it started, well that would be the day I unwrapped it out of it's box...and as far as I can recall, through various firmware & software installs.

How many links does one click on in an hour or two of internet browsing? News, sites, weather, forums? Every one a delay. All those delays add up to a lot of frustration, which is precisely why I have adsl as well, and use my 3g just for downloading. For that, it's great.

Edit: Oh, and this might be of interest.

 

[vodacom3g]

Sometimes yes - typically the delay from the moment I click a url to the modem switching to hsdpa (cyan light) and sending my request along is 3 to sometimes 10 seconds. Sometimes it just doesn't switch. But I still can't reconcile this behaviour with what has been said above - that the dark blue light signifies it's on R99 and the cyan light coming on signifies it has ramped up to hsdpa speed. If it was on R99 / 3G, whatever, well - that's a network, isn't it? I have an ip, so why is there no data transfer? Firefox times out. (BTW, the behaviour is identical in ie and opera, so this isn't a browser issue). Clicking the link once more jabs the thing in the ribs again, this time hard enough to wake it up, and off it goes on it's merry way looking for the url.

As for when it started, well that would be the day I unwrapped it out of it's box...and as far as I can recall, through various firmware & software installs.

How many links does one click on in an hour or two of internet browsing? News, sites, weather, forums? Every one a delay. All those delays add up to a lot of frustration, which is precisely why I have adsl as well, and use my 3g just for downloading. For that, it's great.

Edit: Oh, and this might be of interest.

Should be much faster than that.

PM me the details as per my sig with special emphasis on version numbers. Let's see if we can emulate it.

 

[furnic]

As stated in the first post I find 3G rubbish and over priced. I don't know if its vodacom or if its 3G as a type of service that is so bad.
In a standard month, when telkom lines haven’t been cut, I manage just fine with my 3GB cap on 3pcs and Xbox live - yet within 10 days of not having Telkom lines, and BARELY USING the 3G on one PC I am already on my third 500mb package - what an expensive joke this is.
Not only do certain sites just not load - I have tried on each of my 3 pcs to get something to work and it just hangs, the service is erratic beyond reason - If you disconnect half the time you have to reboot or you have endless problems with the connection. Email will hiccup and wait and then suddenly stream through - all sorts of weird things.
The only good thing that came out of this 3G experiment was that I had to find an internet solution and Neotels lite package is a fraction of the cost and 10x more reliable and efficient!!!

 

[Hosehead]

I guess the e220 is getting a bit long in the tooth now, being a 1st gen 3g device. I would hazard a guess that this r99 / hsdpa switchover business isn't an issue with, say, the e272.

.

It's not an issue with the e272 - at least in my experience.

 

[vodacom3g]

It's not an issue with the e272 - at least in my experience.

Can you time it?

May let's all get a standard test:

1) Open a DOS-box and ping something, say google.co.za.
2) Once the modem is in HS (cyan light), stop the ping and let the modem drop back into R99 (blue).
3) Use the Up-arrow to recall the last ping command and time from hitting Enter to the Cyan light.

 

[Iam3G]

Can you time it?

May let's all get a standard test:

1) Open a DOS-box and ping something, say google.co.za.
2) Once the modem is in HS (cyan light), stop the ping and let the modem drop back into R99 (blue).
3) Use the Up-arrow to recall the last ping command and time from hitting Enter to the Cyan light.

I did your test just for interest sake, and this is what i got:

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\Garth>ping www.google.co.za

Pinging www.l.google.com [66.249.91.103] with 32 bytes of data:

[B]Reply from 66.249.91.103: bytes=32 time=429ms TTL=242
Reply from 66.249.91.103: bytes=32 time=398ms TTL=242
Reply from 66.249.91.103: bytes=32 time=386ms TTL=242
Request timed out.[/B] - [I]pinged while on R99[/I]

Ping statistics for 66.249.91.103:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 3, Lost = 1 (25% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 386ms, Maximum = 429ms, Average = 404ms

C:\Documents and Settings\Garth>ping www.google.co.za

Pinging www.l.google.com [66.249.91.103] with 32 bytes of data:

[B]Reply from 66.249.91.103: bytes=32 time=406ms TTL=242
Reply from 66.249.91.103: bytes=32 time=405ms TTL=242
Reply from 66.249.91.103: bytes=32 time=393ms TTL=242
Reply from 66.249.91.103: bytes=32 time=393ms TTL=242[/B] - [I]Still on R99[/I]

Ping statistics for 66.249.91.103:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 393ms, Maximum = 406ms, Average = 399ms

C:\Documents and Settings\Garth>ping www.google.co.za

Pinging www.l.google.com [66.249.91.103] with 32 bytes of data:

[B]Reply from 66.249.91.103: bytes=32 time=403ms TTL=242
Reply from 66.249.91.103: bytes=32 time=408ms TTL=242
Reply from 66.249.91.103: bytes=32 time=397ms TTL=242
Request timed out.[/B] - [I]Still on R99[/I]

Ping statistics for 66.249.91.103:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 3, Lost = 1 (25% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 397ms, Maximum = 408ms, Average = 402ms

C:\Documents and Settings\Garth>

I did this while the light was still blue, got 2 time out requests. Say like 10 - 15 Seconds after i did those pings did the light go Cyan.