Academics 'queuing to quit SA'

The when depends on how stupid people get. Universities shutting down of a month is bad, but it's hardly a doomsday scenario...
If it stops now we will be oky. I don't think anyone can accurately predict a date or even a point of no return.

It is a doomsday scenario, and SA education is past the point of no return. The issue isn't the immediate problem of lectures lost, or the inconvenience of a few weeks of work lost by staff, the issue is that much of the academic staff will now be looking for foreign posts, top academic staff that would have come to work in SA, are far less likely to do so now. The good PhDs and postdocs responsible for much of the research and future staffing are far less likely to spend this early part of their career at a SA university (locals will go overseas to do postgrad where possible, and would-be foreign students will rather go elsewhere). This isn't a short lived problem either - these people are needed to attract the next generation, and them the the next, etc. A country or university's academic standing is actually an incredibly fragile thing, which has just been kicked in the face.

Years ago I thought that at some point I would retire from industry, move back to SA and take an academic post. I was put off this idea several years ago by various events, now there's just no way I would even consider it. I already know academics thy have resigned, and many who are thinking of leaving - some of them are foreign born and educated, and some are locals with world class foreign education - they came back to SA, because they thought they would be more effective and would be more appreciated - they wouldn't make the same decision today.
 
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Which country are you queuing to go to? If you don't mind me asking

1st tier: USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand.
2nd tier: UK, Germany, China, Singapore.
Well my CV will be in these places and hopefully something bites. Still early days.
 
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The funny thing is that I don't have a degree at all, I work in IT for one of the big companies and took a position in Denmark. There are many ways to solve the problem, even if you are a blue collar worker a lot of the countries make it very easy.

Ironically enough here the pay disparity is very small and I still find it very strange that someone who sweeps the streets for a living has his hair cut at the same place I do, that my friend is what South Africa should be aiming for.

Fascinating and congratulations!

How do you find life in Denmark in general?

Har du lært å snakke dansk enna?
 
I have posted about it elsewhere but a short summary from my perspective :

1. I'm earning more relatively.
2. My kid is getting a better education.
3. My family is a lot safer.
4. We don't have orcs burning down our universities.
5. The air is cleaner.
6. Public heath care is better.
7. As a result of 3 I find that as a family we get out more and enjoy a more active, outdoor lifestyle.
8. We are surrounded by less poverty and the social issues resulting from it.

Don't get me wrong - the move has been the most difficult thing I have ever done but it has been completely worth it.

It is staggering that a snob like you could ever live in SA. NZ healthcare is indeed better until they deport you for using it.
We are surrounded by less poverty and the social issues resulting from it.

And how is leaving go to improve poverty?
My kid is getting a better education.

There is nothing wrong with our schools
 
Fascinating and congratulations!

How do you find life in Denmark in general?

Har du lært å snakke dansk enna?

Thanks! Denmark is amazing, I travel a lot and I have to say by far Denmark is my favourite place. People are friendly and helpful, I would suggest it to anyone!

Ja, en meget lille smule, men mere dagligdags
 
It is staggering that a snob like you could ever live in SA. NZ healthcare is indeed better until they deport you for using it.


And how is leaving go to improve poverty?


There is nothing wrong with our schools

Who the f##k cares. Always look after Number 1 first (not Zupta).
 
:crylaugh:

Please enlighten me what do you think is wrong with schools and how is it different in NZ

Who the f##k cares. Always look after Number 1 first (not Zupta).

I ****ing care. All these ******* expat South Africans go to great lengths to say what is wrong with SA but what are they doing to improve anything, not a goddam thing.

So go live in NZ but just know they also have affirmative action and land issues
 
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1st tier: USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand.
2nd tier: UK, Germany, China, Singapore.
Well my CV will be in these places and hopefully something bites. Still early days.

I'm still trying to decide between Canada and Australia
 
Thanks! Denmark is amazing, I travel a lot and I have to say by far Denmark is my favourite place. People are friendly and helpful, I would suggest it to anyone!

Ja, en meget lille smule, men mere dagligdags

Det er fantastisk å høre!

Det tok meg litt øver 6 månede å lære nok norsk men jeg har bestått min språkprøve denne år.

The last time I was in Denmark to visit was in 2001, but I did touch down in Købnhavn airport this year. I'm keen to go back, but in the meantime we just take daytrips to Sweden from here to buy cheap groceries.

I went from a white collar project management job at Eskom to a blue collar technical job up here in the arctic. Working on mountain tops etc and seeing a lot. It's a refreshing feeling getting judged and paid based on my skill rather than my skin pigmentation.
 
Please enlighten me what do you think is wrong with schools and how is it different in NZ



I ****ing care. All these ******* expat South Africans go to great lengths to say what is wrong with SA but what are they doing to improve anything, not a goddam thing.

So go live in NZ but just know they also have affirmative action and land issues

They are improving things, for themselves and their families. You can kick and scream and shout about improving the country but when push comes to shove everybody will take care of themselves first. And so they should.
 
Please enlighten me what do you think is wrong with schools and how is it different in NZ



I ****ing care. All these ******* expat South Africans go to great lengths to say what is wrong with SA but what are they doing to improve anything, not a goddam thing.

So go live in NZ but just know they also have affirmative action and land issues

Skilled/talented individuals work in companies for their own benefit (salary). If all goes well the company flourishes and and expands and hires more people resulting in a virtuous cycle.

Individuals do not need to "do anything about it". It is the governments job to make the country appealing to skilled individuals by keeping it safe, a good environment for growth, helping the poorest, etc.

As individuals we need to do whats best for ourselves first......
 
Jeezus. The amount of ignorance some saffers have is truly astounding.

SA almost dead last in maths and science education

One in four South African schools do not offer maths in matric curriculum

This exactly

Should I even mention a 30% pass rate, or is that also commendable?

Somewhere someone had to educate you to the level of a foreigner. Why don't you go teach maths at one of these schools?

Skilled/talented individuals work in companies for their own benefit (salary). If all goes well the company flourishes and and expands and hires more people resulting in a virtuous cycle.

Individuals do not need to "do anything about it". It is the governments job to make the country appealing to skilled individuals by keeping it safe, a good environment for growth, helping the poorest, etc.

As individuals we need to do whats best for ourselves first......

If you really believe this then you really are not better than our selfish government. I bet you Zuma has similar feelings towards his fellow man. Rest assured if this is the attitude of all South Africans nothing will ever change.
 
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Somewhere someone had to educate you to the level of a foreigner. Why don't you go teach maths at one of these schools?



If you really believe this then you really are not better than our selfish government. I bet you Zuma has similar feelings towards his fellow man.


Could have been those damn colonialists?
 
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