ADSL consumer packages - A DigiChilli survey

[Zyzzyva]

No. No caps.

Everyone should stop trying to create new solutions/products.

The products are there. The specs are there.

The service simply needs to be tweaked to perform as advertised.

The suggestions are related to the existing products.

Stop trying to come up with new business models.

Nobody is saying the current product should be scrapped. Once they are working they will be brilliant, but the fact remains the biggest market in this country is filled with people who don't understand what uncapped is, or atleast they are not able to visualize the benefits it would bring.

It's all about building a gateway drug to get them on digichilli and then eventually on uncapped. Can you think of a way to get the low users onto the digichilli network (a non capped solution would be far better)?

I spoke to a friend and told them about digichilli uncapped. I told them they should consider spending a few hundred more to get much better value. Their response was they don't ever use up their 3 gigs of afrihost for R86, so why should they spend more?

You see the issue. If digichilli released something attractive for these people, it wouldn't be long and they would upgrade to the more expensive uncapped options.

 

[Mcwidowmaker]

Yup, the current setup I doubt is economically viable.

Current telkom prices for ATM lines:
http://www.telkom.co.za/common/pricelist/prices/local/atmexpress_silver_links.html

140mbt line 25000 give or take

http://mybroadband.co.za/news/Telecoms/10663.html
140 1mbit connections 532 000

Cost per 1mbt line 2:1 contention ratio R4000

So a 512kb 1:1 contention ratio R4000 a month.

Now you gotta contend for bandwidth with guys running torrent and news servers. To supply say 384 connections at R300 and make a 50% gp to cover support costs rates and taxes, telephone, salaries, rent etc.

R4000 / (300*50%) x 384 / 512 = 20:1 contention ratio

So now you have an uncapped 384kb/s line at a 20:1 contention ration that you and 20 other users are running international torrents on. That is 30kb/s used by 20 users, average 1.5kb/s.

Soooo, we're surprised at torrent speeds of 2 - 5kb/s. It is not economically viable. Unless you sell capped packages and business users to subsidise your uncapped, you going to pay R4k for an uncapped connection guaranteed at 512 that is burstable for when then other guy decide to cap his torrents.

This is why targeting only uncapped users at very affordable prices is a very bad idea.

 

[Zyzzyva]

This is why targeting only uncapped users at very affordable prices is a very bad idea.

The biggest factor you are missing is BCS. Bulk buying does change things quite a bit.

 

[Mcwidowmaker]

BCSgroup has recently launched their international wholesale bandwidth offering at R3,807 per Mbps per month with a 2:1 contention ratio. <-- Wholesale.

 

[Zyzzyva]

BCSgroup has recently launched their international wholesale bandwidth offering at R3,807 per Mbps per month with a 2:1 contention ratio. <-- Wholesale.

I wonder what happens when you buy a couple hundred Mbps through BCS?

Anyone know?

 

[Mcwidowmaker]

Business users - Fair usage 8 - 5 weekdays, pays premium for good service, don't usually go to new isp's, unless insentivised too.

Capped users - Price price price. Good price, variety of packages usage likely to happen during day light hours.

Uncapped shaped users - Slow speeds in day while others take preference, high speeds 8pm - 6am. Priced high enough to deter too many of them.

That way you can give a decent service for a fair price. At a wholesale cost of R4k for 512 uncapped uncontended, there is no such thing as cheap uncapped adsl.

 

[Lightscribe]

Nobody is saying the current product should be scrapped. Once they are working they will be brilliant, but the fact remains the biggest market in this country is filled with people who don't understand what uncapped is, or atleast they are not able to visualize the benefits it would bring.

It's all about building a gateway drug to get them on digichilli and then eventually on uncapped. Can you think of a way to get the low users onto the digichilli network (a non capped solution would be far better)?

I spoke to a friend and told them about digichilli uncapped. I told them they should consider spending a few hundred more to get much better value. Their response was they don't ever use up their 3 gigs of afrihost for R86, so why should they spend more?

You see the issue. If digichilli released something attractive for these people, it wouldn't be long and they would upgrade to the more expensive uncapped options.

Nope. No capped. Buy capped at Afrihost or MyIsp.

When the need gets to more than the cost of uncapped, pick a DC product.

DC is not here to be yet another ISP.

It is "the" uncapped ISP.

 

[Lightscribe]

Yup, the current setup I doubt is economically viable.
[snip][/snip]
This is why targeting only uncapped users at very affordable prices is a very bad idea.

Unless you are working for BCS, then I don't want to hear another costs breakdown and related strategy.

 

[Tegnik]

DigiChilli does not offer uncapped. As soon as all the ports are open to use like I want to, I will sign up. Currently all you offer is a restrictive uncapped.

Think of it as an all you can eat special where you can only eat rice... slowly.

 

[Mcwidowmaker]

Unless you are working for BCS, then I don't want to hear another costs breakdown and related strategy.

 

[Lightscribe]

DigiChilli does not offer uncapped. As soon as all the ports are open to use like I want to, I will sign up. Currently all you offer is a restrictive uncapped.

Think of it as an all you can eat special where you can only eat rice... slowly.

Time. Let them tweak the system and get the abusers banned as fast as they sign up.

Once the abusers find the chilli too hot, they'll go back to raping Axxess.

 

[Valerion]

Time. Let them tweak the system and get the abusers banned as fast as they sign up.

Once the abusers find the chilli too hot, they'll go back to raping Axxess.

I am curious to find out what you consider to an abuser. Personally I don't see someone that downloads 24/7 as one.

 

[CorduroyJackson]

Time. Let them tweak the system and get the abusers banned as fast as they sign up.

Once the abusers find the chilli too hot, they'll go back to raping Axxess.

I don't like the sound of that. Their website says something to the effect of:

No thresholds? download all you can.

No rolling windows? go for it. We understand downloads.

 

[Gatecrasher]

Once the abusers find the chilli too hot, they'll go back to raping Axxess.

Rape infers a lack of consent. As far as I can see Axxess is begging for it.

 

[william riker]

is cambodia dave out there?
please help, what do i need to do to get my username and password for my spicy account? i paid via EFT wednesday, 9th december and emailed the proof of payment but no word from DChilli. i use the same bank as DC, so i hoped that would smooth things over. i registered in november but i have yet to use DChilli, ( I tried to pay earlier but whenever i entered my registered name, someone elses name appeared in the payment section and my browser gave me warnings about security.

 

[Mcwidowmaker]

We were just talking. If chilli get their own news server it should free up the international b/w considerably. Will make things so much better if you can run stuff off there, provided it can supply fast enough.

 

[Zyzzyva]

Nope. No capped. Buy capped at Afrihost or MyIsp.

When the need gets to more than the cost of uncapped, pick a DC product.

DC is not here to be yet another ISP.

It is "the" uncapped ISP.

Are you worried that if digichilli introduce caps in any form at the bottom of their product range the cancer will spread? You may have a point. Caps are the easy way out, and when the heat gets hot its certainly possible the temptation will lead to capping.

No caps will certainly prevent that fear from having any basis, that for sure. So maybe you are right.

 

[Lightscribe]

I am curious to find out what you consider to an abuser. Personally I don't see someone that downloads 24/7 as one.

I don't like the sound of that. Their website says something to the effect of:

There are many ways to abuse an ISP. Dave mentioned some.

Just doing your 2 concurrent connections, or one, at the speed designated by the limits of the package paid for, 24/7/365, is not abuse.

Rape infers a lack of consent. As far as I can see Axxess is begging for it.

Hehehe! Mmmm well, then they should go back to having their way with Axxess.

 

[Lightscribe]

Are you worried that if digichilli introduce caps in any form at the bottom of their product range the cancer will spread? You may have a point. Caps are the easy way out, and when the heat gets hot its certainly possible the temptation will lead to capping.

No caps will certainly prevent that fear from having any basis, that for sure. So maybe you are right.

They launched as a truly uncapped ISP.

They set the standard. From here we walk into a new way.

We all know caps are a rip off. There was an article quoted earlier by a MyBB member, on a French ISP.

DC has the ability to take the market...with the best products. Plain and simple uncapped.

They have shown their ability to scoop the Google contract.

I believe they will do well. This is merely the beginning...a month early....

 

[Zyzzyva]

Dave's own words should clear it up.

Bandwidth hogs cannot exist on a per gig data model. They pay per gig, they get their gigs. ISPs make their money per gig. No hogging, just good ol' commerce.

The question of 'hogs' is only appropriate in an uncapped environment. Here its the ISP's responsibility to manage the network so that 'bandwidth hogs' do not affect other users.

Acceptable usage may classify them as as 'hogs', but a management strategy should be all that is needed. Our average users are doing 50 gig/month on a R300 package. They're not 'hogs'. They're just starved of access to data and poor after paying for all those gigs. Some chilli guys have done 200 Gigs in 10 days. They're still not 'hogs' because they're making use of the network. On top of that most are self-managing and are making sure that they don't undermine the operation of the network as a whole.

The user that purposely and maliciously tries to avoid the ISP's management at the detriment to other users on the network may be classified as a 'hog'. Even here, the ISP has to manage the network so that this doesn't happen.

Strategies of pulling desired content closer and providing faster access to alleviate bottlenecks is probably the best strategy.

Even 'hogs' will get tired of buying more and more storage at some point.

An overall policy of network management, user management and content management makes the 'hogs' urban legends.