All you programmers out there, please chime in.

CW67 said:
Yes, informative (and entertaining) exchange between cguy & dontcryforme, and good info from everyone else.
Click to expand...
So I haven't followed the entire thread, but do you still have questions?
 
My 2c:
In relation to qualifications, the most useful thing I got from my engineering degree relating to my job was understanding actually how computers work. Knowing a bit of assembly language actually makes it ridiculously easy to understand any computer.

And it isn’t difficult either. A single page application in React with CSS and responsive design is objectively more complex than assembly language.

As a fundamental thing to learn, you wouldn’t ever go wrong in understanding it.

Higher level stuff like algorithms are very good as well.
If you look at a course website like boot.dev, they have a nice list of stuff to work through.

Having an actual CS degree through UNISA IMO would really help through the HR filters as well.

I done some interviews with people who didn’t have a degree (albeit they were juniors), and it was atrocious. One of them didn’t know how to calculate an average of numbers from a list.

As for actually finding a job:
Not that I have done much job hopping, but it is my experience that a the tech very much industry operates on a who-knows-who basis. Especially in the Western Cape.

All the interviews and job offers I have received have been with people who I had some form of connection with. Hence why the mentioning of the meet-ups isn’t a bad idea.

I don’t really think age would be an issue provided you are not retarded and are able to think on your feet and solve problems .

My FIL is turning 70 and is basically the person setting up the machine learning models for the OCR systems of a major bank in South Africa.

There are also other positions in companies that have some mix of programming and softer skills. A mixture of business analysis, programming and project management combine would go very, very far in almost any business that employs programmers.
 
Dylan_G said:
So I haven't followed the entire thread, but do you still have questions?
Click to expand...

The purpose of the thread was just to get a feel for the South African Python/programming landscape and whether or not it's worth pursuing for somebody in my situation.

If I was still living in the UK (or US or Europe for that matter) I don't think I'd even attempt to break into the industry at this age given the experience needed. Though I suppose it's six of one half a dozen of the other, far more opportunities I imagine in the northern hemisphere, and far more support in a country like the UK to help older people change career or get back into work etc, but also, SA is a technologically developing county, so I would think lots of opportunities here too.

We all know the dire state of our education system in SA as far as school leavers go, generalising of course, and I see that as an advantage for someone in my position trying to break into the tech industry.

Feel free to disagree on the last paragraph.
 
Last edited:
CW67 said:
The purpose of the thread was just to get a feel for the South African Python/programming landscape and whether or not it's worth pursuing for somebody in my situation.

If I was still living in the UK (or US or Europe for that matter) I don't think I'd even attempt to break into the industry at this age given the experience needed. Though I suppose it's six of one half a dozen of the other, far more opportunities I imagine in the northern hemisphere, and far more support in a country like the UK to help older people change career or get back into work etc, but also, SA is a technologically developing county, so I would think lots of opportunities here too.

We all know the dire state of our education system in SA as far as school leavers go, generalising of course, and I see that as an advantage for someone in my position trying to break into the tech industry.

Feel free to disagree on the last paragraph.
Click to expand...
A far more direct proxy to demand is to look at what people are actually being paid for their level of experience (you may want to take a look at the OfferZen survey). That should set your expectations. The question then, is if that is something that that is better or worse than you r current situation?
 
CW67 said:
I've spent a few days researching this, and I could go on reading advice online for another year and keep getting conflicting info, all valid and valuable info though, but I'd like a unique South African take on this 'cause much of the advice I've read online, like Reddit, I would think pertains to software dev job markets in the Northern Hemisphere, anywhere from US to UK to India, Russia, China, and anywhere in-between.

I don't have a relevant computer science degree, and I have no programming experience beyond being very computer literate, I've spent most of my life tinkering with computers (software stuff) and backend stuff since the 80s, and studied a short web design course some years ago, but it's all just for curiosity's sake. So I would consider myself a power user with computers if that's the term. I currently work in media, video, photography, design and general tech stuff like that.

For the last few weeks I've been learning Python, the real basic stuff seems to come naturally and I'm really enjoying it, and I understand the very basics so far in terms of variables, if-else, converting a str to a float, etc. While I haven't got there yet with this course, I grasp the concept of boolean logic from researching what some junior interview questions might be.

With the lack of a CS degree, and I'll be late 40s probably by the time I'm 'ready' for a junior position, am I wasting my time, even if find I have an aptitude for it and get some projects on GitHub? Specifically thinking about SA being a developing country and the fact that programmers will probably be in high demand here for decades to come as the country continues to advance in tech.

Feel free to be frank, but looking for serious, objective answers. TIA.
Click to expand...
Most corporates wants a BSC degree or M.SC degrees in programming now.
 
Learn Automation ie Blueprism or learn Ai ie ChatGPT or Copilot. Thats a big thing at office now. You dont need programmers like before. Also for many a corporate they outsource coding work to India.

Copilot can do programming now

1737747013901.png
 
There are games on Steam that are pretty good at teaching people some script. By making often repetitive logical exercises entertaining. Bit like programming kata exercises really. In a somewhat structured way. Try the Interactive Recommender, tag Programming.

That alone will of course not prepare you for a career. Not by a long shot. But, if you enjoy such things and do well enough in them, then those would be good signs. Because that's what you need most. A bit of skill and plenty of enthusiasm. Programming can be a plenty tough job. You need a special kind of stamina. But plenty rewarding, for the right mindset.

Lots of free educational resources online to take it further, if the thing bites you. And you will need to study, as hinted at. Some magic words. TDD, Clean Coding. For later, though it wouldn't hurt to have a look see now and then. Will hardly make a lick of sense, until they do, a lot. Strong guiding lights after that.

And then you just keep on learning. Even after getting a job, if that is in the cards. There's always more to learn. The work is the real exam.
 
Seems like I missed the brawl. I hope OP got some insight into his question though.
The chat about degrees is amusing though.

A degree matters (a shocking amount) but not for any practical reasons relating to the job, it doesn't even matter what the degree is.
The part that matters is the mindless drone that has to process your cv has a box to tick, no degree, no shot. This is the modern landscape, as bizarre as it is.

Until decent AI can be the middle man, these mindless drones are the gatekeepers and getting around them is a lot of work.

Corporate decree is also: No degree, no international work permit. Even if the company loves you, you'd have to get your butt to that country on your own, get a relevant visa on your own, then get the job. Once in, they can upgrade you. This is not how the world was a decade ago. Idiocracy has taken over.|

It's worth looking into what are some fun options for a degree and what's the shortest. Last time I checked you could get a degree in Ancient Ship Building in under a year.
 
foozball3000 said:
A degree matters (a shocking amount) but not for any practical reasons relating to the job, it doesn't even matter what the degree is.
Click to expand...
Of course it matters for practical reasons. For early career, they want those skills, for later career they want the skills that you developed on top of your degree.

foozball3000 said:
Corporate decree is also: No degree, no international work permit. Even if the company loves you, you'd have to get your butt to that country on your own, get a relevant visa on your own, then get the job. Once in, they can upgrade you. This is not how the world was a decade ago. Idiocracy has taken over.
Click to expand...
That’s not true. It’s much easier with a degree, but if you have the relevant experience, you can get credit for that.

foozball3000 said:
It's worth looking into what are some fun options for a degree and what's the shortest. Last time I checked you could get a degree in Ancient Ship Building in under a year.
Click to expand...
Shorter degrees are generally not regarded as equivalent.
 
cguy said:
Of course it matters for practical reasons. For early career, they want those skills, for later career they want the skills that you developed on top of your degree.


That’s not true. It’s much easier with a degree, but if you have the relevant experience, you can get credit for that.


Shorter degrees are generally not regarded as equivalent.
Click to expand...

I've interviewed a lot of places for one of my ongoing projects, this is all true.
Keep in mind, I obviously don't mean these as absolutes.
Any degree is vastly better than no degree, but obviously no substitute for a relevant degree.

There's some implied practical nuance with what I said originally

I'd be in Norway at this moment if I had ANY degree, since HR's hands are tied by the requirement. The requirement is a degree, not a relevant degree. As an example.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X