ANC Achievements

pobox4701 said:
Please don't go the Racist route,but I really struggle to understand how people can claim that the ordinary South Africans are better off post 1994.
Quality of Education -Shocking
Quality of Healthcare-Shocking
Postal Service-Non existent
Cost and Availability of Electricity v Pre 1994-Shocking
Corruption--Shocking
Road Deaths--Shocking (No more Trained ,honest Cops)
Quality of roads-Shocking(Bar e-tolled roads)
Safety and Security--Shocking.(No more trained honest cops-or,Very few)
Quality of Public Broadcaster-Shocking.
Clean functional,safe cities.
Justice system-Crumbling.


Please can someone explain to me,how people ,are now better off, because they now have the vote.(And I am not suggesting they should not have the vote)

I doubt many Zimbabweans would not prefer to live under the old Smith rule.
Click to expand...

The masses are starting to realise this but will it be too late?
 
pobox4701 said:
Please don't go the Racist route,but I really struggle to understand how people can claim that the ordinary South Africans are better off post 1994.
Quality of Education -Shocking
Quality of Healthcare-Shocking
Postal Service-Non existent
Cost and Availability of Electricity v Pre 1994-Shocking
Corruption--Shocking
Road Deaths--Shocking (No more Trained ,honest Cops)
Quality of roads-Shocking(Bar e-tolled roads)
Safety and Security--Shocking.(No more trained honest cops-or,Very few)
Quality of Public Broadcaster-Shocking.
Clean functional,safe cities.
Justice system-Crumbling.


Please can someone explain to me,how people ,are now better off, because they now have the vote.(And I am not suggesting they should not have the vote)

I doubt many Zimbabweans would not prefer to live under the old Smith rule.
Click to expand...

Its more than having the vote...

Its freedom of movement and being able to choose where you live and who you associate with.
Not having to have a pass
Access to real jobs
being allowed to own property


basically not being a second class citizen
 
Kornhole said:
The masses are starting to realise this but will it be too late?
Click to expand...

I wonder if they do?

Only those who function as skilled/employed tax payers relying on decent infrastructure and keeping the economy going realize this. To the rest (masses), I don't think anything changes... If anything they have access to grants, healthcare, education, property - albeit shocking levels that brings the rest of the country down but to them is a plus.

I could be wrong but I think that is a possibility?
 
I see everyone decided to make jokes instead of answering.

In my book, their biggest achievements are :

Averting the debt default we were close to, and then reducing the crippling debt we were in.
Dramatic increases in GDP (PPP) and GDP per Capita (PPP)
Dramatic reduction in poverty
 
Nerfherder said:
Its more than having the vote...
Its freedom of movement and being able to choose where you live and who you associate with.
Not having to have a pass
Access to real jobs
being allowed to own property
basically not being a second class citizen
Click to expand...

freedom of movement - but not being able to go anywhere because of crime.
Not having to have a pass - but not being given an ID book by Home Affairs
Access to real jobs - but 50% effective unemployment rate
being allowed to own property - but not being able to afford it (and if the Govt gives you a house it is badly built).
 
pobox4701 said:
Please don't go the Racist route,but I really struggle to understand how people can claim that the ordinary South Africans are better off post 1994.
Quality of Education -Shocking
Quality of Healthcare-Shocking
Postal Service-Non existent
Cost and Availability of Electricity v Pre 1994-Shocking
Corruption--Shocking
Road Deaths--Shocking (No more Trained ,honest Cops)
Quality of roads-Shocking(Bar e-tolled roads)
Safety and Security--Shocking.(No more trained honest cops-or,Very few)
Quality of Public Broadcaster-Shocking.
Clean functional,safe cities.
Justice system-Crumbling.


Please can someone explain to me,how people ,are now better off, because they now have the vote.(And I am not suggesting they should not have the vote)

I doubt many Zimbabweans would not prefer to live under the old Smith rule.
Click to expand...

Most people didn't have any of these things pre 1994 so that's why.
Eg. Education is shocking, yes, but shocking education is better than no education.
Healthcare is shocking but most people had very limited access to health care before so shocking healthcare is better than no healthcare.
Postal Service - I'm still getting post so I can't say non-existent. Pre 1994 it was pretty nonexistent for most people.
Electricity - Most people had no electricity so load shedding is a definite improvement.
Corruption - no change there, it may have been worse before 1994 but how would we know. Media freedom was none existant
Road deaths = more cars on the road.
Quality of roads - Most people had no tar roads so a tarred road with potholes is an improvement
Safety and security - most people had no safety or security from the police or any authority before.
Quality of Public Broadcaster no change, shocking is shocking.
Clean functional,safe cities - didn't exist pre 1994. You probably don't remember having to go through metal detectors every time you went to a shopping centre. It wasn't safe for most people either, even if you had your passbook.
I don't see the justice system as crumbling so I won't comment on that.

Then Post 1994
All people can go wherever they want without permission from the authorities. (other than people in jail of course)
All people are allowed out after dark.
All people are allowed to associate with anyone they want. No more jail time for [-]kissing[/-] talking to the 'wrong' person
People are allowed to gather in groups.
The media is unrestricted.
No more ridiculous censorship on books, music or films
Homosexuality is legal.
People can live where they choose (legally, I mean)
All people are allowed to own land.
Education is open to all.
Health services provided for all.
Salaries have increased and employment is open to all.
Employment has increased.
Much more people have access to clean water and electricity (hence the load shedding)
There is a welfare system for the poor.
More people have access to telecommunications.

You could probably think of many other ways in which the lives of ordinary people have improved if you just think about it.
I suspect you were not around during apartheid or were very young to not be aware of how much better things are, despite all our problems.
 
pobox4701 said:
Please don't go the Racist route,but I really struggle to understand how people can claim that the ordinary South Africans are better off post 1994.
Quality of Education -Shocking
Quality of Healthcare-Shocking
Postal Service-Non existent
Cost and Availability of Electricity v Pre 1994-Shocking
Corruption--Shocking
Road Deaths--Shocking (No more Trained ,honest Cops)
Quality of roads-Shocking(Bar e-tolled roads)
Safety and Security--Shocking.(No more trained honest cops-or,Very few)
Quality of Public Broadcaster-Shocking.
Clean functional,safe cities.
Justice system-Crumbling.


Please can someone explain to me,how people ,are now better off, because they now have the vote.(And I am not suggesting they should not have the vote)

I doubt many Zimbabweans would not prefer to live under the old Smith rule.
Click to expand...

Our public healthcare is far better then it used to be. Sure, there were some pockets of excellence back in the day, but as a whole it was very bad. The average quality and reach were below appalling.
Cape Town is far cleaner and safer than it was pre 94
 
Sherbang said:
Most people didn't have any of these things pre 1994 so that's why.
Eg. Education is shocking, yes, but shocking education is better than no education.
Healthcare is shocking but most people had very limited access to health care before so shocking healthcare is better than no healthcare.
Postal Service - I'm still getting post so I can't say non-existent. Pre 1994 it was pretty nonexistent for most people.
Electricity - Most people had no electricity so load shedding is a definite improvement.
Corruption - no change there, it may have been worse before 1994 but how would we know. Media freedom was none existant
Road deaths = more cars on the road.
Quality of roads - Most people had no tar roads so a tarred road with potholes is an improvement
Safety and security - most people had no safety or security from the police or any authority before.
Quality of Public Broadcaster no change, shocking is shocking.
Clean functional,safe cities - didn't exist pre 1994. You probably don't remember having to go through metal detectors every time you went to a shopping centre. It wasn't safe for most people either, even if you had your passbook.
I don't see the justice system as crumbling so I won't comment on that.

Then Post 1994
All people can go wherever they want without permission from the authorities. (other than people in jail of course)
All people are allowed out after dark.
All people are allowed to associate with anyone they want. No more jail time for [-]kissing[/-] talking to the 'wrong' person
People are allowed to gather in groups.
The media is unrestricted.
No more ridiculous censorship on books, music or films
Homosexuality is legal.
People can live where they choose (legally, I mean)
All people are allowed to own land.
Education is open to all.
Health services provided for all.
Salaries have increased and employment is open to all.
Employment has increased.
Much more people have access to clean water and electricity (hence the load shedding)
There is a welfare system for the poor.
More people have access to telecommunications.

You could probably think of many other ways in which the lives of ordinary people have improved if you just think about it.
I suspect you were not around during apartheid or were very young to not be aware of how much better things are, despite all our problems.
Click to expand...

You cannot attribute all those things to the ANC, you can attribute a lot of it to the constitution and some to free market economics. I could whittle that list down but don't have the time right now.
 
Then Post 1994
All people can go wherever they want without permission from the authorities. (other than people in jail of course) - try go to Nkandla.
People are allowed to gather in groups. - not without permission
The media is unrestricted. - info bill ?
No more ridiculous censorship on books, music or films - not so. We still have the FPB.
Homosexuality is legal. - was it illegal?
Education is open to all. - always was
Health services provided for all. - always was
Salaries have increased and employment is open to all. - to all non-whites


Road deaths = more taxis on the road.
Click to expand...

ftfy
 
I see your point but don't agree that the future is brighter now,for the majority of South Africans.They are getting an education,that is substandard and therefore the will struggle to get meaningful employment. The Employment rate is dropping which makes it even worse.
lets face it,its all about Food on the table,a safe country and reasonable healthcare.Im not sure the ANC provides this.Expectations are very high for School leavers but I fear its not going to happen for them.


Nerfherder said:
Its more than having the vote...

Its freedom of movement and being able to choose where you live and who you associate with.
Not having to have a pass
Access to real jobs
being allowed to own property


basically not being a second class citizen
Click to expand...
 
pobox4701 said:
I see your point but don't agree that the future is brighter now,for the majority of South Africans.They are getting an education,that is substandard and therefore the will struggle to get meaningful employment. The Employment rate is dropping which makes it even worse.
lets face it,its all about Food on the table,a safe country and reasonable healthcare.Im not sure the ANC provides this.Expectations are very high for School leavers but I fear its not going to happen for them.
Click to expand...

I never said it was brighter. I was commenting on what changed when apartheid ended
 
ANC helped KFC sales
Cheap Chinese T Shirt sales
Helped themselves
Promoted the architecture of Nkandla
Split the trade union movement
Screwed up their Youth League - and of course spurred the start up of the Economic Factory Faults - EFF (Which assisted with cheap Chinese red beret imports)
And gave us the comedy of JG Zuma
 
They have contributed to our understanding of how Liberation movements fare as governments in the African context.
 
I can't say that I'm surprised by most of the comments in here, but I am saddened.

The ANC has maintained one of the best constitutions in the world. Are there issues with its application sure, but don't forget how new we are to this. Look at what the US was like in 1796 for a good comparison.

They've also done reasonable well with macroeconomic policy, given the massive challenges that they were handed.
 
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