ANC or nothing

[zippy]

I wouldn't call 15 years "ages ago"...
Maybe you too should admit your race based vote as does more than 90% of voters.

I will. I voted for the ANC in the first election, because I believed it was the best thing for the country. I dont regret it. They achieved a lot, initially. We had a really good economy. Human rights increased. Subsequently, however, they have failed. Badly. They have failed to deliver services to people who need it. They have failed to unite the country around nation building. You can understand the need to focus on previous disadvantaged communities and I even accepted that AA and BEE where needed. However, all AA and BEE has achieved, is non-white foreigners getting lucrative contracts and dodgy arms deals. Poor communities still suffer from lack of services. The response of the ANC to all of this has been to drive a wedge between South Africans along racial lines. This is exactly how the NATS played the country to reinforce their apartheid idealogy. Make sure that white's and blacks blame each other.

I havent voted in elections since, because the ANC have not delivered and the other parties where retards. I left SA 2 years ago and wont vote again because I have no plans on returning. In the UK election, I voted Lib Dems for the council and Labour for national elections. Not sure how I will vote this time.

 

[Lycanthrope]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

Nope almost 1/3

Oi... No need to depress me further

 

[Mila]

Oi... No need to depress me further

It's good news no more living off your pension!!! Spend it!!!
heheheh!!

 

[a-person]

I've often heard how stupid black people are for voting for corrupt ANC, which is correct...there are a lot of corrupt ANC officials, really no different from past government but at least one could argue that service delivery was good back in the days well at least for white folks.

As an ANC supporter I am also fed up of the corruption and poor service delivery, but the only reason why I still vote for ANC regardless of corruption reports we hear on the news every day is because we have no alternative party in SA which will serve all regardless of race.

Please don't tell me DA or COPE= ANC

shame.. you obviously don't have friends

 

[ppedrick]

Why is it that so many rich people from abroad are chosing to buy property here and also relocate here if this country is such a fark up?

I agree that the poor people in this country don't get their fair share but those who have cash have it good in this country

To buy a house in this country, if you are from a more weathly one, isn't difficult so it's an easy holiday home.

I am here because I see a country that is starting to develop and I know I can help... and ultimately profit from it.
However, that doesn't mean I, or anyone, will hang around or give it a second thought if things aren't progressing how they should.

I have to say that the worst things I have noticed in my 10 years of coming here off and on:

- There is no accountablility... it seems no one is in the TV/media lime light when things go wrong.
- No public speaking. Why are your politicians not interviewed daily on their actions and policies?
- Salary... your politicians are paid a LOT more here than in other countries
- It feels very much like people are 'in charge' rather than public servants... but I guess this is part of accountability
- Not tow the party line... this is the first country I've been to outside China where Ministers must vote how your party tells you and not how your voters need you to.
- How hung up on race everyone is but how hard they verbally say they are not.

Every country has corruption, however, most don't generally hire and promote representatives who have either had a brush with the law or been prosecuted by it. There are extreme cases where this is not true but it's not a habit.

Please, please, please can we all help rationalise this country.
- Hire the people that can do the job and get them to teach the people who can't.
- Integrate more... I think that this failure has a lot to do with the above point and BEE
- Make people more accountable for the prominent and important jobs they do.

Blah, blah blah... we all know these things and we all want what's best for the country. Yet I only see a few people getting more wealthy and excuses coming from every corner as to why infrastructure and education are falling apart.

I do have faith, but we all need to take an active part in the change. That means those of us who are lucky enough to have a decent education and salary to help others.

Most importantly to not show our own ignorance when generalising about race and takign a stand. It is hard to integrate but how hard do we as individuals try?

Feel free to slate me for my ignorant 'forgien outsider' view point!

 

[Grimlock]

This debate is so useless. The main problem with all the ANC voters is their complete lack of common sense. Anyone can be smart, but if you don't have common sense, then there's no hope for you. I have also had many a discussion with some of my black coworkers and friends (I'm a "whitey" by the way) that all say things were better before the ANC took over. I'm not saying I condone apartheid.

The main problem is that those who do vote ANC, regardless of how horribly they f@ck everything up, are ignorant to the reality staring them in the face. Most of them are so brainwashed by the propaganda that trying to reason with them is like explaining nuclear physics to a traffic light. Wait, at least a traffic light responds.

 

[Alan]

I will. I voted for the ANC in the first election, because I believed it was the best thing for the country. I dont regret it. They achieved a lot, initially. We had a really good economy. Human rights increased. Subsequently, however, they have failed. Badly. They have failed to deliver services to people who need it. They have failed to unite the country around nation building. You can understand the need to focus on previous disadvantaged communities and I even accepted that AA and BEE where needed. However, all AA and BEE has achieved, is non-white foreigners getting lucrative contracts and dodgy arms deals. Poor communities still suffer from lack of services. The response of the ANC to all of this has been to drive a wedge between South Africans along racial lines. This is exactly how the NATS played the country to reinforce their apartheid idealogy. Make sure that white's and blacks blame each other.

The ANC today is the same ANC you voted for. Just take look at the crime rate during Madiba's first term or the Arms deal that was set in motion then etc. Most telling is the ANC members in power now where in positions of power then and those that have left since still endorse the current ANC policies.

I havent voted in elections since, because the ANC have not delivered and the other parties where retards. I left SA 2 years ago and wont vote again because I have no plans on returning. In the UK election, I voted Lib Dems for the council and Labour for national elections. Not sure how I will vote this time.

OMG come back before you ruin the U.K too. The former ANC supporters are now fleeing the country just to go overseas and repeat the same mistakes.

 

[Guest 20221009]

OMG come back before you ruin the U.K too. The former ANC supporters are now fleeing the country just to go overseas and repeat the same mistakes.

Lol!

 

[undesign]

This debate is so useless. The main problem with all the ANC voters is their complete lack of common sense. Anyone can be smart, but if you don't have common sense, then there's no hope for you. I have also had many a discussion with some of my black coworkers and friends (I'm a "whitey" by the way) that all say things were better before the ANC took over. I'm not saying I condone apartheid.

The main problem is that those who do vote ANC, regardless of how horribly they f@ck everything up, are ignorant to the reality staring them in the face. Most of them are so brainwashed by the propaganda that trying to reason with them is like explaining nuclear physics to a traffic light. Wait, at least a traffic light responds.

Give them a real "black" alternative. That will shake things up.

 

[ppedrick]

I havent voted in elections since, because the ANC have not delivered and the other parties where retards. I left SA 2 years ago and wont vote again because I have no plans on returning. In the UK election, I voted Lib Dems for the council and Labour for national elections. Not sure how I will vote this time.

Yeah, I agree - I don't think that you can really say that you know what you're doing mate. Just a little research would have shown you how the Labour party has behaved and sold the UK down the drain over the last 12 years.

Might be worth re-thinking your voting strategy...

 

[Vox Populi Vox Dei]

OMG come back before you ruin the U.K too. The former ANC supporters are now fleeing the country just to go overseas and repeat the same mistakes.

LOL! I have to agree. Labour had been in power for around 10 years before Zippy voted -- and he didn't see the awful mess they had created by then? Zippy if you don't vote Tories or UKIP I think Alan might come and stalk you on Facebook!

@Alan: You read R.W Johnson's recent book? South Africa: The Beloved Country since the End of Apartheid? Great read, even if he was an ANC supporter back in the day like most of these liberals.

 

[zippy]

The ANC today is the same ANC you voted for. Just take look at the crime rate during Madiba's first term or the Arms deal that was set in motion then etc. Most telling is the ANC members in power now where in positions of power then and those that have left since still endorse the current ANC policies.





OMG come back before you ruin the U.K too. The former ANC supporters are now fleeing the country just to go overseas and repeat the same mistakes.

The ANC is very different to what it was then. So is South Africa. You, however, arent that different to the OP. You do have the advantage that you can validly critisice the ANC, however, you are just reinforcing your anti-black attitude. The ANC's failure is just a convenience for you. You dont want a multi-racial South Africa anymore than the OP does. You think that non-racial ideals will ruin the UK as it as ruined SA ? What you dont see is that its racism that has ruined South Africa. All you lot do is bitch about how the other race is screwing things up. This is always going to be holding the country back. You will never compete with the developed world, because you are all so obsessed with race. Other developing countries are outperforming South Africa(Brazil, India). Pretty soon South Africa will be placed in a category of its own. "Developing... Still". The world is not going to be feeling sorry for SA for much longer, if they even care anymore. When the West and China look to the developing world, they will look past South Africa and look at Egypt, Brazil, India, even Nigeria. You are in the processing of screwing up an opportunity that very few countries have ever had.

 

[zippy]

Yeah, I agree - I don't think that you can really say that you know what you're doing mate. Just a little research would have shown you how the Labour party has behaved and sold the UK down the drain over the last 12 years.

Might be worth re-thinking your voting strategy...

I dont think they sold the UK down the drain. They have just lost the plot. Labour is the best thing that happened to the UK in the 90's. However, its time to move on. Countries need democratic change. It reinvigorates the country. South Africa is failing in this regard because South Africans are unable move beyond liberation and race politics and learn the most valuable lesson in all of history. Politicians need to be reminded who is in charge from time to time. They need to be removed on a regular basis.

 

[zippy]

LOL! I have to agree. Labour had been in power for around 10 years before Zippy voted -- and he didn't see the awful mess they had created by then? Zippy if you don't vote Tories or UKIP I think Alan might come and stalk you on Facebook!

@Alan: You read R.W Johnson's recent book? South Africa: The Beloved Country since the End of Apartheid? Great read, even if he was an ANC supporter back in the day like most of these liberals.

I had a vested in interest in voting Labour at the time. Their immigration policies suited me. However, my visa is now extended for 3 years and I will now be able to apply indefinate leave to remain in 2012.

 

[Alan]

Yeah, I agree - I don't think that you can really say that you know what you're doing mate. Just a little research would have shown you how the Labour party has behaved and sold the UK down the drain over the last 12 years.

Might be worth re-thinking your voting strategy...

Hey watch how you quote dammit

LOL! I have to agree. Labour had been in power for around 10 years before Zippy voted -- and he didn't see the awful mess they had created by then? Zippy if you don't vote Tories or UKIP I think Alan might come and stalk you on Facebook!

They're like parasites. Spreading the disease from one host to another. Moving on once the current host is fatally infected.

@Alan: You read R.W Johnson's recent book? South Africa: The Beloved Country since the End of Apartheid? Great read, even if he was an ANC supporter back in the day like most of these liberals.

No not yet butI will though. There's another book of interest I came across 'We are all Zimbabweans Now by James Kilgore.' It's a novel about a young American historian Ben Dabney who arrives in Harare in 1981, full of admiration for Robert Mugabe and Zimbabwe’s policy of reconciliation but of interest is the author. A former 'Symbionese Liberation Army' terrorist group member who was a fugitive here in S.A, wanted in the U.S in connection with a murder. Here in S.A he was known as John Pape and naturally was highly respected "humanitarian" and "intellectual" in liberals circles

 

[ppedrick]

I dont think they sold the UK down the drain. They have just lost the plot. Labour is the best thing that happened to the UK in the 90's. However, its time to move on. Countries need democratic change. It reinvigorates the country. South Africa is failing in this regard because South Africans are unable move beyond liberation and race politics and learn the most valuable lesson in all of history. Politicians need to be reminded who is in charge from time to time. They need to be removed on a regular basis.

We should likely not go off topic and agree to disagree.
The list is too numerous for me and the issues in the UK, over the last 3 years, were predicted 8-10 years ago based on their direct actions 'when times were good'.

You are very correct though. With politicians having zero experience in the actual jobs they are required to do there does need to be a constant shake up to keep everyone on their toes. However, that was also my point on accountabiliy.

 

[Mila]

shame.. you obviously don't have friends

I loled

 

[ppedrick]

You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.Malcolm X

Love the quote - very apt!

 

[Alan]

The ANC is very different to what it was then. So is South Africa.

Yeah sure. Like Mad Bob just "changed". As I pointed out earlier crime, corruption and the same politicians were around then as now.

You, however, arent that different to the OP. You do have the advantage that you can validly critisice the ANC, however, you are just reinforcing your anti-black attitude.

The race card. I can see why you voted ANC :erm:

The ANC's failure is just a convenience for you. You dont want a multi-racial South Africa anymore than the OP does. You think that non-racial ideals will ruin the UK as it as ruined SA ? What you dont see is that its racism that has ruined South Africa. All you lot do is bitch about how the other race is screwing things up. This is always going to be holding the country back. You will never compete with the developed world, because you are all so obsessed with race.

Race this, race that. Nowhere did I bring up race. Ironically your reaction to criticism of the ANC of 1994 is no different to that of the OP's reaction to criticism of current ANC.... Playing the race card.

I just posted this morning that focusing on race was stupid and that the ANC was invested with white morons. How does that fit in with your Anti black theory?

Other developing countries are outperforming South Africa(Brazil, India). Pretty soon South Africa will be placed in a category of its own. "Developing... Still". The world is not going to be feeling sorry for SA for much longer, if they even care anymore. When the West and China look to the developing world, they will look past South Africa and look at Egypt, Brazil, India, even Nigeria. You are in the processing of screwing up an opportunity that very few countries have ever had.

No sorry you did that when you supported the ANC.

 

[R13...]

Actually it was about 20 years ago, ANC rule started 16 years ago though. Hey, the Nats had Apartheid up and in full swing in 16 years, but then the we have to factor in the incompetence of the ANC.

There's no denying the ANC culture of looting, cryonism, nepotism & incompetence.
I am just suggesting we compare apples and apples.

All that said, the ANC has made huge difference in the lives of many black people. This wasn't hard to do as they had a very low base to start of. All thanks to decades of white rule that treated black people less than they did their pets. And I tell you a lot of people have not forgotten white rule and even more are afraid of it. The ANC is of course taking full advantage of this.