And another killing from Gauteng

Look, at the moment I am picturing you as a bit of a hillbilly that aintseein nodamn rongs with shootings some other peoples.

If you shoot someone, and kill them...... You need a trial to see if it really was self defence or not, else I could kidnap your wife / kid / yourself and lead them/you onto my property then shoot them / her / it / you and according to you the police should not lay any charges against me....

Think about it..... aaaah there we go.

You seem to think I said:" find the shooter guilty and throw them in jail", that sir/lady is just because of your poor reading skills and / or short attention span.
You should N O T be arrested for self defense, you should be read a warning and told to appear in court at a later date.
This is a bloody disgrace, the cops and detectives on scene should not detain the person where its clear self defense and if I was this guy and its self defense I would sue the cops and then sue each individual if at all possible in their own right - probably not possible as they were acting on behalf of the state in execution of their duties.
 
You should N O T be arrested for self defense, you should be read a warning and told to appear in court at a later date.
This is a bloody disgrace, the cops and detectives on scene should not detain the person where its clear self defense and if I was this guy and its self defense I would sue the cops and then sue each individual if at all possible in their own right - probably not possible as they were acting on behalf of the state in execution of their duties.

And how/who will decide whether it was self defense, on the spot?
 
Good post regarding self defense on the eblockwatch page (surrounding the most recent developments of the Dennis Webster case)

Chief Clark's Chirp on the same, he posted this morning :)
Murder part II

(I dont like to quote newspapers but in this case they confirm my knowlege)

Have a look at the Tribune today. Not the first page, but page 9 where there is the follow up to the arrest of Mr Webber for apparent self defence. At the time of his arrest I was questioned and there was the hysterical party quoting anonymous lawyers telling everyone that if you shoot someone in self defence you WILL be arrested.
I said you would not, and explained that there would have to be conflicting evidence on the scene to what was claimed for a person to be arrested. I explained that it is not in the mandate of the SAPS to re-afflict a victim by placing them under arrest for protecting themselves. I further commented that at the time of the incident, even the Shadow Minister for the Police, Mrs Dianne Kohler-Barnard had reported that she was satisfied with the actions of the Police. I commented that if she was satisfied then there was more to the story than what the general public was led to believe at the time. Remember, what is printed in the media is by no means the whole story, let alone truth.

Now it has been confirmed that there was more to the story. For those who do not get the Tribune, here is why the unfortunate Mr Webber was arrested:

1)He claimed he fired a warning shot which ricocheted off the wall and struck his attacker. The forensic investigators have not found any marks on any walls or surfaces indicating a ricochet. The intruder was struck once in the back, indicating he had been shot from the back. A post mortem and recovery of the bullet will indicate for sure if the bullet did hit anything before the person.
2) Mr Webber alleged he had been attacked with a knife. No knife was found on the scene by the body.
3) The placement of the spent cartridge is contradictory to where Mr Webber stated he was at the time of the shot. Remember, pistols eject spent cases to the right.
4) There is a discrepancy with the call and response time. Webber claims he waited 30 minutes. Radio recordings and vehicle tracking report the responding officers arrived within 10 minutes. I fully understand that when people are under stress, time perception is distorted.
5) There was no forced entry.

Four of these factors would have been evident at the time of and at the scene of the crime. There were comments made that with a serious case like this, the "constable" responding shouldn't make the call to arrest the "victim". The person who made that comment alleged he was an ex-policeman. Which I disputed as any policeman or ex- would have known that at the scene of a serious crime like a murder senior detectives, including station officers on call would have been present, examined all the evidence in situ and made a call based on a collective 60-70 years of policing experience.

Ultimately, this case is long from over, and I plead for people not to leap to conclusions without knowing nearly half the information. We get ourselves so worked up over what a newspaper editor has available to him, minus what he thinks is not fit to print.

My friend and comrade, Peter Burke, had the same to say to several people questioning the facts of the story at its time of release. Everything he said was 100% correct.

If you defend yourself within the boundry of the law you have nothing to fear. As the front few pages of the same Tribune report there had been several violent attacks in the upper Highway area. My question is how different would any of those ended if the homeowners had been fit and trained firearm owners, not with a "revolver" in the safe somewhere, but at hand, ready to defend yourself against an unlawful and mortal threat?
 
Are you kidding me? If someone is in your house univinted and he forced entry then if you cant see that you are an oxygen thief

Lol, and it can't be staged? Just think about it. the court is there so that every person can state his case and be heard.
 
Lol, and it can't be staged? Just think about it. the court is there so that every person can state his case and be heard.



Of course it can be staged. I am not advocating murder of anyone in your property. That would be stupid.

My issue is. Someone breaks into my house. I kill him. Should I then go spend a weekend in jail with hardened seasoned criminals until I can get out.

They should have seperate cells if the law requires you to be arrested. What if you work over weekends, I must stop earning a living until bail can be paid and my release granted until trial.

Of course if it is a person with a history of killing people, or a dodgy past or whatever circumstances, lock him/her up. But to endanger your life further because you defended yourself is what the problem is here.
 
Of course it can be staged. I am not advocating murder of anyone in your property. That would be stupid.

My issue is. Someone breaks into my house. I kill him. Should I then go spend a weekend in jail with hardened seasoned criminals until I can get out.

They should have seperate cells if the law requires you to be arrested. What if you work over weekends, I must stop earning a living until bail can be paid and my release granted until trial.

Of course if it is a person with a history of killing people, or a dodgy past or whatever circumstances, lock him/her up. But to endanger your life further because you defended yourself is what the problem is here.

that is why I said the person is taken into custody.... that is different than being put in the cells.

Also What marine1/you are suggesting is that the person can just up and go when you shoot someone on your property.

That is retarded.
 
that is why I said the person is taken into custody.... that is different than being put in the cells.

Also What marine1/you are suggesting is that the person can just up and go when you shoot someone on your property.

That is retarded.

Not at all what I am suggesting.

I am suggesting you have to go to court. Let the forensic team investigate. Let the procedure be followed.

When you are taken into custody? Where do you sleep?
 
Wouldn't police stations have to be A LOT bigger to accommodate individual cells?
 
Wouldn't police stations have to be A LOT bigger to accommodate individual cells?

I am sure they would have to be. However, the issue remains, how can we keep a person safe in a holding cell?
 
These wastes of oxygen never attack alone or on even terms. What happens if you're faced with more than one and the shooting starts? I sure as hell would not hesitate to blast any and every last one of them. But then you're in the *** again, right? If you're being fired upon, and you happen to return fire and shoot one of his buddies in the back while his mate is shooting at you? I mean, the way I see it, once I'm being fired upon then the threat as a whole must be neutralised full stop. There is no time to pick and choose who is a valid threat in these conditions. I would like to know where we stand here. What is the deal exactly?

I've faced off with 5 of these savages but unfortunately I was not armed at the time and I attribute being alive to the fact that I was within earshot of neighbours. I would gladly have ended the lot of them with my bare hands given half the chance - had Mr.Bigshot with the gun been taken out of the equation.
 
For some reason i have always thought a good place to dump a body would be in the water at seal or dassen island. There is never a shortage of large hungry great white sharks in the area.
 
For some reason i have always thought a good place to dump a body would be in the water at seal or dassen island. There is never a shortage of large hungry great white sharks in the area.
[video=youtube;CyEBXTL1Y3U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CyEBXTL1Y3U[/video]
 
I am sure they would have to be. However, the issue remains, how can we keep a person safe in a holding cell?

When arrested, how difficult or easy is it for cops to get your criminal record? They should separate based on number of crimes committed.
 
Kill or be killed...

I would rather rot in prison than be killed by some low life scumbag...that's for sure.
 
there is nothing wrong with my New South Africa thank you. we have a lot of problems, but it has nothing to do with new or old. every time you say NEW SOUTH AFRICA you're simply suggesting that you're ass sore and you miss the good old days

YOU SAID IT. ;)
 
that is why I said the person is taken into custody.... that is different than being put in the cells.

Also What marine1/you are suggesting is that the person can just up and go when you shoot someone on your property.

That is retarded.

Explain that diamond of a statement.
 
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There's a river in PE that you can just dump the body. Police often find dead bodies there, they mostly think it has just floated down from the township upstream that it runs through. No case opened and you're working towards a safer SA.
 
Hopefully the intruder(s) that you shoot/kill don't have mates hanging around the corner or watching for his/their safe return...

Someone I used to know in Jhb, interrupted some hijackers who were busy hijacking his friends in the driveway. He shot the hijackers (my memory's a bit hazy now but I think 2 were killed and one wounded) and foiled the hijacking, but 3 months later their buddies waited in ambush for him as he dropped off his girlfriend one day and shot him in the stomach. He died en-route to the hospital.

It's a sad state of affairs , but it seems like the law abiding citizen just can't win :(
 
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