Anger over Satanism lesson

[Debbie]

Anger over Satanism lesson
29/08/2008 14:56 - (SA)
Alet Rademeyer, Beeld

Johannesburg - The parents of some of the Grade 11 pupils of Dr EG Jansen High School on the East Rand are upset about the life orientation syllabus, which provides 17 pages of elaborate information about Satanism in a textbook.

A parent fumed on Thursday over the "absolute rubbish" to which pupils were exposed in the curriculum.

"It is because of this kind of thing that children's curiosity is sparked and they begin experimenting with the wrong things, which can lead to incidents such as the recent sword attack at a school," the father said.

The particular chapter of the Grade 11 textbook, which was made available to Beeld, included a prayer to Satan, an extensive description of the church of Satan as an organisation, an oath of devotion which can be made to Satan, the laws and rules of the church of Satan, verses out of the Satanic bible, as well as Satanic symbols and their meanings.

'Extremely dangerous'

The parent said that schools were busy with "extremely dangerous things" if they exposed children to this.
more

I think it is responsible to teach a bit about satanism - remove the misconceptions about it. If these parents had had the same benefit and access to such information, they wouldn't be freaking out. Ignorance begets ignorance

 

[PeterCH]

I think it is responsible to teach a bit about satanism - remove the misconceptions about it. If these parents had had the same benefit and access to such information, they wouldn't be freaking out. Ignorance begets ignorance

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. They are teaching Satanic prayers in schools
and organisations of the sect? What politically correct idiocy is this?

Satanism is pure evil. Sorry - teaching that and making it look innocent for
youngsters is outrageous.

The teaching of 'satanism' to schoolkids makes for an extra argument why
religion should be kept out of school. If anything kids can be told
what satanism is, but for established societal reasons, it cannot
be equated in any way with the common religions of this country. Sheesh.

No Debbie, I disagree. Satanism is pure evil to Christian, Jewish and Muslim people,
to teach it in detail is insulting to all the followers of those religions. Come on,
let's teach about the organisation of the KKK next, then the Nazi party
and deal with their own oaths of obedience to the Fuhrer, blood ceremonies
and initiation rituals. Heck, why not also teach how the gas chambers
operated in Nazi death camps too. Children should know. Make it all
organically objective for them. Oh yes, let's teach the kids about
the Al Quada too. Why not provide them with 17 pages of
background, operational info and who's-who then children
can organise in Al Quada cells as part of their homework.
Additional lessons could include - the making of IED's,
the picking of targets - so to maximise civilian death rates
and finally a course in beheading - when you need to get
a message across on video.

 

[LoneGunman]

agreed, religion should be kept far away from children - until they're old enough to decide for themselves, and hopefully laugh off the sheer stupidity of it, and not end up as mind-controlled drones, believing in superstitious ridiculous rubbish - that comes from a time when humans were frightened at their own shadows, and knew almost nothing of reality.

 

[Cadavre777]

Yes but unfortnately a lot of rubbish is drilled into impressionable minds from an early age from peers, parents and teachers. How many really get to make up their own minds before biased influence has corrupted their reasoning?

 

[Kosmik]

I'm not comfortable with the teaching Satanism thing but these are aren't kids.

Grade 11 ( old std 9 or form 5 for us ballies ) is old enough that people should have a curiosity and a need to understand. Actually when I was in school years ago, they taught about Nazi's and gas chambers and death camps. Why? Because its called history!

I recall we had a religion class but it actually was exactly that ie: a class about religions not a religion in specific, hence it was meant to expose to a pupil the basics of each of the major faiths: Christianity, Judaism , Islam , Hindu and Buddhism. In the modern PC world, I suppose Satanism could be lumped as a religion with the rest of these, don't personally agree with it though. The purpose, as I see it, was to install a tolerance for people of religions and allow a person to work in a work place of multi ethnicity.

 

[GougedEye]

Agree 100% with Debs.

Ignorance is not Bliss. If you want to protect kids from something then you and they should actually know about it rather than have a bunch of half truths and misconceptions. This applies to a bunch of things including drugs and sex. If parents have a problem with this content, I would suggest that they go through it with their kids themselves and not leave it up to the teachers. If you never tell them about it, or only tell a heavily edited version of it, one day someone you don't want to will tell them more. Then when they realise they have been lied to or had information hidden from them there is far more risk of them doing something stupid. Better that they are fully prepared and knowledgable than ignorant and vulnerable.

In fact I think a lot of adults could do with a course in comparitive religions including Satanism. How can anyone make informed decisions about these issues from a position of complete ignorance or one sided propaganda? If satanism as you say "is pure evil" then what better way to expose this? The only reason to deny people knowledge is to try to control them. And knowledge should not be forbidden merely because it offends some people.

 

[Necuno]

my comment on it
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=2023121&postcount=50

and add; that one should look at it properly and not just through the eyes of a one sided perspective and propaganda machime, spewing their half truths and misconceptions. especially the beeld and their chrisitanic afrikanerism.

satanism has become the all which went wrong or are ill begotten to mankind without thinking twice its just rubber stammed to everything by whom it has thought to be a devil behind or a devil in.

and now from sword slayer satan teen, those who have wanted to get their little time in lime, have been given and taken it to go out and proclaim their propaganda about every little thing they all of sudden deem evil and wrong, flying under the zomg satan banner.

-fear, and the unkown is a very powerfull weapon.

 

[dogmeat]

I think religion is a personal thing and should be kept out of school curriculum altogether. That includes born again "happy clappy" Christian garbage that was forced down my throat at school.

 

[PeterCH]

How is Satanism 'pure evil'?

And which Satanism are you talking about? There are two predominant types, totally different from each other.

Could say the same of many of the other religions people practice in schools today.

Why care, does it matter if it's insulting, Christianity is 'insulting' to Satanist people, Teaching Christianity is 'insulting' to Muslim people. Do we really know where to draw the line?

But over all, some good points there, and i'm impressed that you want religion out of schools and away from children

You are poorly informed. Arguing with you is totally pointless.

Ok which religion are you?

If you're an atheist, you can't comment on what Christian/Jewish/Muslim
followes consider EVIL. Satanism (anything by that label) is considered evil
because SATAN is according to those 3 religions in direct opposition to God.
In those 3 religions GOD is the more important than anything else. God is more important than your country, family, friend and even yourself. To support Satanism in any way is pure blasphemy and heresy.

ANYTHING TO DO WITH SATAN IN ANY WAY REMOTELY POSITIVE WAY
IS EVIL FOR THESE 3 MONOTHEISTIC RELIGIONS.

If you're an atheist this doesn't bother you so understand now that you know.

Secondly you're an atheist probably since you don't seem to know what I just wrote about but I'll add that other religions are not seen in the same way as SATANISM by religious people. Muslims do consider Jews and Christians to
be related to them. All 3 religions observe ancient Old Testament prophets
like Abraham, Isaac and Moses. Islam also recognises that Christ was
special ie a prophet and incorportates His teachings. Over the last few hundred years there has also existed an official peace among these religions with people no longer doing forced conversions of each other.

Satanism on the other hand, even if it worships puppies, as long as that word is there - "Satanism" is evil because it has some non-negative connection to Satan. Satan is not to be worshipped or celebrated or venerated in any form
even symbolic by Christian people - as it is evil and a pure insult to God.

If you're an atheist and don't believe in God you can do what you want but
remember that you are celebrating the Devil and you will one day be judged for that. If you don't care THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM, but it's not your
place to tell people of faith what they should do.

My problem with teaching of Satanism in such great detail, including prayers is that it makes it seem like another religion - which it's not - such relativism is not agreeable with what the 3 monotheistic religions follow. They also
seem to be concentrating too much on details - eg prayers. Giving youngsters such prayers allows them to start with immediate worship
from the moment go. Satanism if associated with crime should be
explained in schools for that reason.

Again to God, all forms of Satanism are evil. If you don't like it, tough luck,
if you're an atheist and don't care - what's the deal then?
By its definition Satanism is evil and can never be put on a similar pedestal
as say another religion.

If anything, they can teach kids that Satanism uses brainwashing methods to dilute their
anti-social religion --the same way some people on this forum in PD -- and that there
are genuine dangers of Satanism beyond the anti-religious/anti-social aspect thereof.
To go into prayers and advanced symbology and rites is off topic.

 

[PeterCH]

I'm not comfortable with the teaching Satanism thing but these are aren't kids.

Grade 11 ( old std 9 or form 5 for us ballies ) is old enough that people should have a curiosity and a need to understand. Actually when I was in school years ago, they taught about Nazi's and gas chambers and death camps. Why? Because its called history!

Did you read what I wrote. I said - that the level of detail is incorrect.
Secondly the context may be incorrect.

If they are teaching youngsters about the dangers of 'Satanism' that is fine
but then why include prayers to Satan and details on the various rites these
people follow.

By the same light, it's good to teach about the Holocaust, but not to teach about Nazi rites, Nazi pledges and various operational details about the killing process going on in Oswiecim (that's Aushwitz for people who don't know). Instead of focusing on the genocide they could go and talk about the formulas
the Nazis used to calculate how much Zyklon-B is necessary to kill 150 people, if say they're mostly
children or maybe if they're older or mostly adults. Operational issues which dilute the central
message in such a case would be insulting to the people who died there and defeat the purpose
of the anti-holocaust teaching OR maybe the teacher has a different agenda, in which case maybe
he wants to just let the kids forget about the suffering - which is perverted too, because for
kids that is the only thing they should learn about the Holocaust - that it was mass murder.
Such teachings go into the wrong type of detail. The same with the Al Quada example, teach about terrorism but don't go an teach kids how to start a cell, how to target soft targest etc. Do you grasp the difference?

If you still don't understand, well tough, sorry.

 

[dogmeat]

My problem with teaching of Satanism in such great detail, including prayers is that it makes it seem like another religion - which it's not - such relativism is not agreeable with what the 3 monotheistic religions follow. They also
seem to be concentrating too much on details - eg prayers. Giving youngsters such prayers allows them to start with immediate worship
from the moment go. Satanism if associated with crime should be
explained in schools for that reason.

That's exactly why I don't approve of religion being taught in schools. It confuses people easily. The youth in South Africa are incredibly immature for their age, I don't care what anyone says. Both boys and girls and just generally uncultured and naive. Thats why I think religion is dangerous because you get the odd person who decides to take up a relgion, or anti-religion in this case because it's "non conformist" and against their parents will, so they do it. Which is obviously for completely the wrong reason.

Make no mistake, I believe religion is important in someones life, but it's for an individual to study in their own time. Not "I'm a Christian because my mom is" That's bullsh*t.

 

[PeterCH]

Make no mistake, I believe religion is important in someones life, but it's for an individual to study in their own time. Not "I'm a Christian because my mom is" That's bullsh*t.

The parents are the principal teachers of religion. They introduce the child into the religion at a young age. If the parents are non-practicing but even more so behave in a manner non-compatible with the religion (eg mommy drinks while daddy bonks his secretary) then the child will have negative
perceptions of the religion. However to say that you're a Christian because
your mom is, is quite correct. She introduced the child to Christianity,
but not the primary school. The school can teach what Christianity is,
how many people celebrate it but it shouldn't also go into details of
prayer with pages of prayers to force non-Christians to study those.

I know a lot of people who are atheist because their mom was atheist.
Their mom was atheist in turn because she joined the Communist
Party and what was more important was that the mom in question
was such an strict believer in Communism, she managed to advance,
get a lot of extra benefits - better house, car, seperate shops to buy
from, access to Western goods etc. Such people now, and I have friends
like these, are atheist because of the anti-religious socialist garbage they
were fed. Except socialism became a religion, with the 1st secretary of the party becoming a god.

 

[dogmeat]

I know a lot of people who are atheist because their mom was atheist.
Their mom was atheist in turn because she joined the Communist
Party and what was more important was that the mom in question
was such an strict believer in Communism, she managed to advance,
get a lot of extra benefits - better house, car, seperate shops to buy
from, access to Western goods etc. Such people now, and I have friends
like these, are atheist because of the anti-religious socialist garbage they
were fed. Except socialism became a religion, with the 1st secretary of the party becoming a god.

I don't what you're talking about. This has nothing to do with political ideology. My point was quite simple. Make your own religious choices based on what YOU believe, and of course live your life by those religious principles. The youth are bombarded with outside influences from just about every direction which they are very susceptible too, as I mentioned before. I would rather children were brought up Agnostics and then when they become adults, devote to a specific religion because the sad truth unfortunately is that more often than not mommy does drink while dad bonks the secretary then it's off to church on Sunday.

 

[Kosmik]

Did you read what I wrote. I said - that the level of detail is incorrect.
Secondly the context may be incorrect.

If they are teaching youngsters about the dangers of 'Satanism' that is fine
but then why include prayers to Satan and details on the various rites these
people follow.

By the same light, it's good to teach about the Holocaust, but not to teach about Nazi rites, Nazi pledges and various operational details about the killing process going on in Oswiecim (that's Aushwitz for people who don't know). Instead of focusing on the genocide they could go and talk about the formulas
the Nazis used to calculate how much Zyklon-B is necessary to kill 150 people, if say they're mostly
children or maybe if they're older or mostly adults. Operational issues which dilute the central
message in such a case would be insulting to the people who died there and defeat the purpose
of the anti-holocaust teaching OR maybe the teacher has a different agenda, in which case maybe
he wants to just let the kids forget about the suffering - which is perverted too, because for
kids that is the only thing they should learn about the Holocaust - that it was mass murder.
Such teachings go into the wrong type of detail. The same with the Al Quada example, teach about terrorism but don't go an teach kids how to start a cell, how to target soft targest etc. Do you grasp the difference?

If you still don't understand, well tough, sorry.

Level of detail in any topic is necessary. By not giving detail you are merely perpetrating brain-washing. I think your example of the chemical composition takes it a bit too far but to make a further example:

As it is a religion that is being discussed, the learner would need to analyze the religious practices and beliefs to find out whether it is good or bad. A copy of a prayer or rituals can be used to highlight various aspects and practices of that religion.

I understand your point fine and your last statement just makes you appear childish. You might want to reconsider that attitude in life and not make personal attacks in a discussion.

 

[nauseous_monkey]

"Satanism begins with atheism. We begin with the universe and say, 'It’s indifferent. There’s no God, there’s no Devil. No one cares!' ”

—High Priest Peter H. Gilmore

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_satan

PeterCH, I suggest you go back to Grade 11 and try to learn something about Satanism before you claim that it should not be taught. You sound like a Creationist claiming that Science is evil because he/she cannot understand it.

Religion is to be examined at schools in a strictly academic fashion, and that is exactly what they are doing... it's not like they are sacrificing cats or doing magic.

This is a secular education system, stop trying to pawn your bigotry on others at the risk of making the world as ignorant as you are.

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

Slightly off topic - are they covering Paganism in schools today? Just thinking that if Satanism is there .........

 

[pos(t)er]

Is Paganism a religion, tho?

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

as much as satanism is ...... it has rituals and codes and what not too.

 

[pos(t)er]

Well Satanism is a formalised religion with The Church of Satan.I'm not sure about Paganism;don't know much about it, beyond it being nature orientated.

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

I know there's 'councils' (or something like that) as well and AFAIK, it is officially recognised as a religion in some countries. Wicca is very interesting actually. A real pity it gets looked upon as satanism.