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Another Eskom Blackout website launched
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I'm sick of these sites. We all know the problems, how about coming up with ideas on how to solve it. Personally I would appreciate if those of us who understand the situation to encourage and educate those who are not, on how and why we should save energy. We all need to do our part.
I'd like to see more info on how we can reduce our usage especially with regards to geysers. I think geysers really waste a lot of energy. We all need to invest in Geyser blankets and timers for our geysers. This could easily save 10% to 15% of a household's monthly energy use.
I bet you once the load shedding eases a bit, all the big buildings will have all their lights on at night to show-off how beautiful their buildings are. That really irritates me.
I've noticed employees of big companies wasting so much power. One example, in an office of 30 people, at the end of the day every single pc was on, even though everyone had logged-off and left for the day. I suppose it happens at smaller companies too. It's sheer laziness on our part.
I'd like to see more info on how we can reduce our usage especially with regards to geysers. I think geysers really waste a lot of energy. We all need to invest in Geyser blankets and timers for our geysers. This could easily save 10% to 15% of a household's monthly energy use.
I bet you once the load shedding eases a bit, all the big buildings will have all their lights on at night to show-off how beautiful their buildings are. That really irritates me.
I've noticed employees of big companies wasting so much power. One example, in an office of 30 people, at the end of the day every single pc was on, even though everyone had logged-off and left for the day. I suppose it happens at smaller companies too. It's sheer laziness on our part.
Gunny
Expert Member
PC's are left on so AV updates can go through, remote management can happen, backups happen and some people have scripts running day end proccessing and such anyway that doesnt matter at night we fine, during the day is when there is a shortfall. You cant store the generated electricity so saving when there is no peak demand won't help.
My electricity bill stayed the same with or without timer. Having a timer increases the demand because instead of keeping the geyser at a constant temp all of a sudden at 5 or 6 pm everyones geyser comes on and has to heat the water from cold. A geyser blanket does help but its marginal. Eskom dished them out in the Cape along with energy saving lamps so here most people have them.
Why should I have to give up my comforts when I am willing to pay for the electricity I use ?
There are mothballed powerstations they can put back on the grid in less time than it takes to build one I think Government should subsidise eskom to get those running till the new one is going.
Thats my suggestion for a solution. Government did admit some guilt so let them come to the party.
The problem is plain and simple mis-mangement and lack of future planing. Can't solve that in a hurry.
My electricity bill stayed the same with or without timer. Having a timer increases the demand because instead of keeping the geyser at a constant temp all of a sudden at 5 or 6 pm everyones geyser comes on and has to heat the water from cold. A geyser blanket does help but its marginal. Eskom dished them out in the Cape along with energy saving lamps so here most people have them.
Why should I have to give up my comforts when I am willing to pay for the electricity I use ?
There are mothballed powerstations they can put back on the grid in less time than it takes to build one I think Government should subsidise eskom to get those running till the new one is going.
Thats my suggestion for a solution. Government did admit some guilt so let them come to the party.
The problem is plain and simple mis-mangement and lack of future planing. Can't solve that in a hurry.
That doesn't make sense, beacuse those computers are still on and "wasting" power during peak times of 5pm to 8pm and 5am to 8am. And as far as I know, when the pc is logged off, no AV updates are done. Surely if those who are running "scripts for day end processing" can write scripts to turn off machines once they're complete ????
Well that's what I mean by educating people to how we can save energy. We need accurate and reliable information. I read a few articles in the papers quoting Eskom saying these are viable and effective energy saving methods. Who do I trust? It seems everyone has a view but nothing seems to be accurate or reliable.
I don't disagree with you, but nevertheless we find ourselves in this situation. We can either moan until eternity or try to find solutions. I prefer the latter.
Government doesn't subsidise anything. We, the taxpayers, pay for everything. We'll be the ones subsidising eskom to get these mothballed powerstations up and running, just like we subsidise people who get free houses, free electricity, free water, etc. etc. etc.
That still doesn't help us in the short term. Until those power stations are up and running what do we do?
The SA government certainly isn't the first and definitely won't be the last to make those mistakes.
vodacom3g
Vodacom Representative
This is an obvious application for energy management technologies like the systems we implement in modern homes as per the HA link in my sig below.
There are a few methods that help drive energy consumption down:
1) Occupancy-based energy management - Here we automatically turn off electrical elements if there are obviously no-one around to use them, for example follow-me lights where we turn off lights as you leave the room and only turn them back on as you re-enter. Also TV's, UFH, AC units, etc.
2) Environment-driven management - here we track ambient conditions (light, temperature, humidity, etc.) and allow elements such as lights and AC units to only run in controlled settings, for example cooling can only be -2 degrees of ambient or light levels are set to supplement natural light instead of being fully turned on. Heating is controlled the same way.
Typically you'll do combinations of the above, i.e. only allow an AC unit to drop a few degrees relative to the outside temp (instead of setting it to 16 degrees) but then turn it off completely when there is no-one in the room for more than 30 minutes.
Because you know the home's consumption at any given point and also know what each element (geyser, stove, lights, TV, etc.) consume, it's now easy to do time base management, for example drive consumption down during peak periods (turn the geyser off for 60 minutes or turn it off while the stove is on, etc.).
We've seen many practical examples where home owners have dropped their electricity bills by more than 50% using these methods.
Water management is also done in the same way, BTW.
There are a few methods that help drive energy consumption down:
1) Occupancy-based energy management - Here we automatically turn off electrical elements if there are obviously no-one around to use them, for example follow-me lights where we turn off lights as you leave the room and only turn them back on as you re-enter. Also TV's, UFH, AC units, etc.
2) Environment-driven management - here we track ambient conditions (light, temperature, humidity, etc.) and allow elements such as lights and AC units to only run in controlled settings, for example cooling can only be -2 degrees of ambient or light levels are set to supplement natural light instead of being fully turned on. Heating is controlled the same way.
Typically you'll do combinations of the above, i.e. only allow an AC unit to drop a few degrees relative to the outside temp (instead of setting it to 16 degrees) but then turn it off completely when there is no-one in the room for more than 30 minutes.
Because you know the home's consumption at any given point and also know what each element (geyser, stove, lights, TV, etc.) consume, it's now easy to do time base management, for example drive consumption down during peak periods (turn the geyser off for 60 minutes or turn it off while the stove is on, etc.).
We've seen many practical examples where home owners have dropped their electricity bills by more than 50% using these methods.
Water management is also done in the same way, BTW.
I tend to agree, to a degree; AV updates don't really take that much time or CPU, so can be done during the day e.g. lunchtime (mine don't impact my work at all really - if an AV update is that harsh, get better AV software, seriously), and AV scans could be scheduled e.g. weekly or bi-weekly, not daily. Most of the time people DO leave computers on unnecessarily, let's admit it (like lights too) ... another alternative suggestion would be, if you can, to use Wake-on-LAN to wake the PCs up in the middle of the night, have them 'run their scripts' etc. and shut down again.
Simple things can go a long way, e.g. put a sign up in the office reminding people to please shut down their computers when not in use. Also check the power management settings, e.g. to power off monitor while idle. Machines that can run headless, should where possible (e.g. some servers). LCD displays, although they cost more, use less power than CRTs. (Laptops also generally use less than desktops, plus also have effectively a pseudo-'built-in-UPS' with their battery, plus are mobile, so consider getting laptops for some employees.) Check the energy usage of computers and laptops when you buy new ones, some processors are much more efficient than others.
Some more tips...
Put a sign on the fridge (in office, or even at home) reminding people to avoid opening the door during a blackout, to not open the door unnecessarily and to open it as short as possible when they do. Put a sign by the kettle reminding people to only boil as much water as necessary in the kettle - kettles suck a lot of power.
Put a sign in the office reminding people not to leave lights on unnecessarily (or distribute via memo / e-mail or in meeting). Or even distribute a list like this (but please, not "forward to everyone you know" crap).
Do similar at home; get everyone into the habit of not leaving lights on unnecessarily (and generally thinking about their electricity usage - it comes naturally to me because I was raised like this even in the days of reliable electricity).
Simple one, replace all possible incandescents with energy-saving bulbs.
In both office and home, use smaller lamps where possible to light localised areas instead of a whole room (e.g. an 11W bedside should do while reading in bed).
If you've got a bit of cash, get a solar water heater / geyser, they're pretty expensive though. If you're rich, splash out on a proper solar setup for your house, it's a cool status symbol.
Defrosting tip: You can save energy defrosting something 'naturally' by taking it out e.g. 4-12 hours in advance instead of using the microwave or stove (e.g. if you're cooking mince in the evening, take it out the freezer in the morning, or even the night before - in fact, if you take it from the freezer to the fridge compartment, it will save a little energy helping keep the fridge cool as it defrosts). Before putting hot food in the fridge/freezer, also let it stand a while to cool a bit naturally (this is anyway a good idea even if you're not having power cuts, because while hot food cools in the freezer, it not only kicks up your energy usage, it also helps food go bad by creating localised "thaws" of other food).
Cook with gas where possible (or braai), or even have a gas stove installed.
Apparently showering is more energy-efficient than bathing. (Dishwasher manufacturers also claim that dishwashers are also more energy-efficient than handwashing, although I'd like to see proper scientific references for that before believing it.) Keep showers on the short side. Don't run the hot-water tap briefly just for that first bit of cold water that comes out; if you only want/need cold water, use the cold-water tap.
Aircon is VERY power hungry. I knew guys at my previous workplace who would sit dressed up in warm clothes with the aircon turned down to very low - that's silly. Put the thermo up even a few degrees, that can save a lot of energy. (Likewise for heaters in winter - I know people who set their heaters to max, then walk around in flimsy thin clothes. Use warm clothes and blankets. Make sure your windows and doors close as tightly as possible. Use localised heating where possible instead of heating entire rooms.) Or even turn the aircon off and get a fan if it's not too bad, you'll survive (to a degree the body actually gets used to temperatures it's exposed to all day - so you think it's insanely hot when you turn the aircon off, actually it's more because you're not used to it - turn it up one degree each day, you'll get used to it slowly).
Hate to say it, but seti@home (and like) use energy --- if you can, configure it to not run during peak times (is this possible with the latest BOINC software, i.e. time of day based usage settings?) (IIRC Wikipedia has a list of all major processor models and their wattages ... they vary widely, so you can an idea based on that how much power your SETI or whatever might be using.)
Encourage flexi-time where possible so people who want to work at night can.
Everything vodacom3g said above.
Hmm .. what else?
As for government, I also wonder how difficult it would be for them to set up time-of-day-based metering for some customers - in theory you could make it cheaper at night, to encourage more demand pushed to off-peak times (would probably not be feasible to do on all homes, I guess). They should also allow people with solar + generators etc., as in some other places I believe, to effectively 'sell back' their possible excess power to the grid - I'm not sure how difficult this is, infrastructurally, to implement.
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eltherza
Expert Member
Another complain site...
I get power shedd 6am->8:30am and 7pm till 10pm... There is still a short fall at night, so encouraging usage at night wont help much.
Winter is going to kill us. Buy blankets now...
I get power shedd 6am->8:30am and 7pm till 10pm... There is still a short fall at night, so encouraging usage at night wont help much.
Winter is going to kill us. Buy blankets now...
Moederloos
Honorary Master
I have an idea for the AV updates. I have just started formulating it - so it may have a hole or two.
hmm, I will make a new thread rather - may be interesting to discuss.
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=102398
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friedpiggy
Expert Member
I am just curious as to why there is this focus on nuclear power. i mean if we go and drop another nuclear station in, great stuff. it will resolve the base load needs of the country, however it is expensive to build and to run. you need to buy nuclear fuel and then have the expense of the disposal of nuclear waste. not to mention the risk of a possible meltdown due to some unskilled person welding a seam in the reactor core the wrong way. im sorry but i just dont see that the benefits of another nuclear reactor outweigh the possible and definite negatives.
why not take a 10 square km patch of the karroo where almost no rain falls and almost nothing grows and throw in a mother of a solar farm? if they lay the cabling first it would mean that as each panel is put in it can immediatly be wired into the national grid. solar is now cheaper than coal according to a report i read somewhere. thus it is way cheaper than nuclear. you also have no fuel cost or waste disposal costs.
there are plenty of ways they can get this resolved within a year but the entire country seems to be so fixated with nuclear power that nobody is giving any thought to alternate means.
those massive wind turbines that you see in the holywood movies are capable of generating 6 MW each. how about lining our coastlines with those? each time you add one in it is one less suburb that needs to be loadshed.
on a side note i fail to see how less than a year ago we had enough elecrtricity to run the country without the need for loadshedding and now they shed heavily. unless someone can tell me where that extra drain is coming from im gonna think that there is something way not right with this situation. you dont go from having enough to having a massive shortage in 12 months. I still think eskom is yanking everyone around for one of two reasons, 1) they didnt get the 18% increase they wanted or 2) they werent allowed to drop in their pebble bed reactor and are now trying to make it look so bad that people will eventually let them do anything just to stop the load shedding.
just my 2 cents worth.
Piggy
why not take a 10 square km patch of the karroo where almost no rain falls and almost nothing grows and throw in a mother of a solar farm? if they lay the cabling first it would mean that as each panel is put in it can immediatly be wired into the national grid. solar is now cheaper than coal according to a report i read somewhere. thus it is way cheaper than nuclear. you also have no fuel cost or waste disposal costs.
there are plenty of ways they can get this resolved within a year but the entire country seems to be so fixated with nuclear power that nobody is giving any thought to alternate means.
those massive wind turbines that you see in the holywood movies are capable of generating 6 MW each. how about lining our coastlines with those? each time you add one in it is one less suburb that needs to be loadshed.
on a side note i fail to see how less than a year ago we had enough elecrtricity to run the country without the need for loadshedding and now they shed heavily. unless someone can tell me where that extra drain is coming from im gonna think that there is something way not right with this situation. you dont go from having enough to having a massive shortage in 12 months. I still think eskom is yanking everyone around for one of two reasons, 1) they didnt get the 18% increase they wanted or 2) they werent allowed to drop in their pebble bed reactor and are now trying to make it look so bad that people will eventually let them do anything just to stop the load shedding.
just my 2 cents worth.
Piggy
Turning your aircon to a degree or two below ambient is the dumbest thing I have heard of. Please if you do this. Rip your aircon out and give it to someone else, you don't deserve it.
30 degrees ambient, - 2 means you are sitting at 28 degree, sure its cooler then outside but it is still stupidly hot.
As for your body getting used to the temp, that’s a load of crock. Granted you might not feel the 30 degree heat if you've been in it all day compared to someone who has been in aircon at 20 degrees, but you still feel it and it's still blerry uncomfortable. I've been in Durban for 10 years and it's still oppressively hot in summer here. Don't try con me that I will get used to it. If anything I am finding it worse and worse each year.
Geyser times are all good and well, but the problem there is when every man and his dog sets there's to come on at the same time, it will create a huge surge in demand for power. It also means you have to live your life ruled by times when the geyser is warm.
P.S. Sorry for the aggressive nature of my post... we got load-she power cut at work from 1am till 7am and I got woken up by security to be informed of it, also meant I had to come into work early so not exactly in the best of moods
30 degrees ambient, - 2 means you are sitting at 28 degree, sure its cooler then outside but it is still stupidly hot.
As for your body getting used to the temp, that’s a load of crock. Granted you might not feel the 30 degree heat if you've been in it all day compared to someone who has been in aircon at 20 degrees, but you still feel it and it's still blerry uncomfortable. I've been in Durban for 10 years and it's still oppressively hot in summer here. Don't try con me that I will get used to it. If anything I am finding it worse and worse each year.
Geyser times are all good and well, but the problem there is when every man and his dog sets there's to come on at the same time, it will create a huge surge in demand for power. It also means you have to live your life ruled by times when the geyser is warm.
P.S. Sorry for the aggressive nature of my post... we got load-she power cut at work from 1am till 7am and I got woken up by security to be informed of it, also meant I had to come into work early so not exactly in the best of moods
gregmcc
Honorary Master
Thats incorrect - the AV software runs as a service which means it can autoupdate even if no-one is logged on.
If you have AV software that only autoupdates when your logged on - I'd find some new software
I agree there as well. Whats the point of an aircon then. Keep it at a cool 22 or so.
Moederloos
Honorary Master
I am pretty sure they have looked at alternative power sources. Nuclear is (possibly?) the cheapest form of power generation available at this stage on a price per KW basis.
I don't get why people are so anti nuclear power.
Granted the waste from it is a problem, especially the fact that it is hazardas for so long, but then again it comprises 1% of the toxic waste that remains hazardous indefentily of indrustilised nations that use nuclear power. It also produces less waste then any other form of fossil fueled power generation.
The concern of a disaster holds about as much water as telling me not to use a car because of the potential for a car crash.
I don't get why people are so anti nuclear power.
Granted the waste from it is a problem, especially the fact that it is hazardas for so long, but then again it comprises 1% of the toxic waste that remains hazardous indefentily of indrustilised nations that use nuclear power. It also produces less waste then any other form of fossil fueled power generation.
The concern of a disaster holds about as much water as telling me not to use a car because of the potential for a car crash.
Moederloos
Honorary Master
I am not anti-nuke power as such.
I am just concerned that the same geniuses that got us into this situation are going to be handling the waste.
I am concerned enough with Koeberg as it is.
friedpiggy
Expert Member
with eskoms track record for maintenance a disaster at a nuclear station is a matter of when not maybe or if.
im not anti nuke i just dont see why they are focusing so heavily on it. the lead time to get a nuke station up and running to full capaciy is a major issue. in the same amount of time they could build enough solar in unused parts of the country to supply everyone with electricity for the next 500 years.
yes nulear is cheap to generate but if you take total costs involved it aint so cheap. fuel, construction, waste disposal, routine safety inspections, etc. with solar or wind, if theres an accident what happens a panel gets shattered? also once they in, the running costs are waaaaay lower than anything else.
this is just my opinion and is not guaranteed to reflect reality in any way
im not anti nuke i just dont see why they are focusing so heavily on it. the lead time to get a nuke station up and running to full capaciy is a major issue. in the same amount of time they could build enough solar in unused parts of the country to supply everyone with electricity for the next 500 years.
yes nulear is cheap to generate but if you take total costs involved it aint so cheap. fuel, construction, waste disposal, routine safety inspections, etc. with solar or wind, if theres an accident what happens a panel gets shattered? also once they in, the running costs are waaaaay lower than anything else.
this is just my opinion and is not guaranteed to reflect reality in any way
I don't know if you've looked around, but South Africa is devloping faster than anyone could have imagined. In the Western Cape (I can't speak for other provinces) but houses and businesses are going up on every piece of flat land. Pieces of land that once held only once house with one family now house apartment complexes with 20 or 30 families.
Everyday more and more people are being placed onto the grid as the population swells and country grows. That;s what happens in a healthy economy.
And whether Eskom is yanking everyone's chain or not, there is an energy crisis on its way and we are not the only country effected even if we would like to think so.
It is in our best interest to become more energy efficient now.
How many of us right now have appliances on stand by at home while we are at work. How many of us have left our PC at home running even though we are nowhere near. In the evenings, how many of us turn on every light in the house even though we are occupying only one room?
Those of us who could afford it could install solar panels to heat our geysers, no?
Eskom may be to blame, government may be to blame, but there comes a point when blaming will no longer solve the problem. But then again, does it ever?
Moederloos
Honorary Master
We went from OK in December (heck - even 15 December still) to all-hell breaking loose in January.
I do not buy that explanation.
And December is traditionally a slow time development-wise.
Even if we consider December a quiet month holiday wise, November was pretty much "just peachy" too. And how many new businesses or developments went "live" in December?