Another Eskom Blackout website launched

Where there is no news, there is a coverup.
Considering the dead quiet from the ANC, I suspect a MAJOR coverup.

Anyone have a family member working at a power station who is not home yet? Like a month or so late?
 
But it will be ages until until these plans come to fruition. Till then, do we bitch and moan or do we do damage control and maybe we can all get back to some semblence of normality?

The sooner we cut down on what we use, the sooner the load shedding can stop.

This is why i keep going on about solar/wind power. the lead time to get these up and running is a year or thereabouts instead of the 5-10 years for a coal/gas/nuclear station.
 
Turtle, the people who are to blame for this fiasco have already raised their hands and said they are to blame. Even the president admitted government was to blame. Some people said they were just covering for Eskom.

Plans are in the pipelines to make sure this problem is avoided in future.

But it will be ages until until these plans come to fruition. Till then, do we bitch and moan or do we do damage control and maybe we can all get back to some semblence of normality?

The sooner we cut down on what we use, the sooner the load shedding can stop.

Where are the people being sacked for this? Where are the people stepping down from their positions because of incompetence? If our company got and order for 200 000 pairs and I failed to plan and order the leather for it and we had a short fall and I "stuck my hand up and admitted I was to blame", can promise you that I would be collecting my last pay check at the end of the month.

FFS they have known about this since 1999 according to one of the articles. Sticking there hands up now and admitting failure and expecting us to ration ourselves for 5 years is complete and utter bulllshart and it is completely unacceptable.

Yes where are up the creek without a paddle right now and now we have to deal with the symptoms and manage what power there is. The very minimum we should accept is some high level dismissals / resignations as well. Those responsible for this disaster, as the saying goes, could not organise a pissup in a brewery. Do you really expect them to manage a recovery?
 
The very minimum we should accept is some high level dismissals / resignations as well.

And major tax breaks.
And a few points off the interest rate.
And maybe, just maybe, some accountability in the crime arena - that is the next thing to explode.
 
The very minimum we should accept is some high level dismissals / resignations as well. Those responsible for this disaster, as the saying goes, could not organise a pissup in a brewery. Do you really expect them to manage a recovery?

mbeki should be the first to go and then every anc member involved in making the decision not to allow new power stations. Then every energy minister since 1994.

All should then be prohibited from ever holding public office again and they all should be publicly named and shamed.

Chance of that happening? Don't hold your breath.
 
Chance of that happening? Don't hold your breath.
Chance of any government official being held to account for anything? Or any offical from any of these state owned gaints?

I think a man (guy / male (not a female)) has more chance of falling pregnant through the mail, with the little swimmers all dried out.
 
I think a man (guy / male (not a female)) has more chance of falling pregnant through the mail, with the little swimmers all dried out.

I will go one further - we have more chance of reaching the ANCs targeted 6% growth rate than anyone accepting accountability for this problem.
 
Turtle, the people who are to blame for this fiasco have already raised their hands and said they are to blame. Even the president admitted government was to blame. Some people said they were just covering for Eskom.

We are moaning about the lack of accountability prevalent in the ANC government. Somebody needs to pay for this. People need to be fired. This is the only way you stop these things from happening in future.
 
As intended

I have developed this theory that the power shortage is "as intended" and that we were carefully managed into it.
Eskom forecast in 2002 (or thereabouts) that there would be an electricity shortage at the end of 2007. How much more accurate can one get with one's projections?
Eskom knew, the government knew, and anybody who invests large amounts of money should have known. The government would have all the information they would want available, they would have access to economists, technical engineers, knowledge enginners, and in each area they would be able to acess the most brilliant minds on the planet.
People could have looked at Eskom's forecast and seen, year by year, that the predicted scenario is pretty accurate.
We aimed for a pitiful 6% growth rate (compared to Asian countries) which we never achieved, and we still find ourselves in this situation. It is difficult to believe that a government could be so completely incompetent, therefore my suspicion that this is a cleverly managed "attack" against the whole of Southern Africa in which the government may not be an innocent player.
 
PC's are left on so AV updates can go through, remote management can happen, backups happen and some people have scripts running day end proccessing and such anyway that doesnt matter at night we fine, during the day is when there is a shortfall. You cant store the generated electricity so saving when there is no peak demand won't help.

My electricity bill stayed the same with or without timer. Having a timer increases the demand because instead of keeping the geyser at a constant temp all of a sudden at 5 or 6 pm everyones geyser comes on and has to heat the water from cold. A geyser blanket does help but its marginal. Eskom dished them out in the Cape along with energy saving lamps so here most people have them.

Why should I have to give up my comforts when I am willing to pay for the electricity I use ?


There are mothballed powerstations they can put back on the grid in less time than it takes to build one I think Government should subsidise eskom to get those running till the new one is going.

Thats my suggestion for a solution. Government did admit some guilt so let them come to the party.

The problem is plain and simple mis-mangement and lack of future planing. Can't solve that in a hurry.

Well I stumbled across this thread as a result of using Google to find out prices and suppliers of geyser blankets, as I was wanting to do my small bit to try and solve the current problem, and sadly I was not at all surprised to find this sort of attitude being expressed on this forum. I have in fact limited my reading of off topic threads on here due to the overwhelming negativity contained in most of them.

Again that selfish attitude of "why should I have to suffer" comes to the fore. Sh_t this country is screwed with people who have this attitude amongst us. Luckily the ones that say things like this are usually also the ones threatening to leave, so there is hope for the rest of us!

Unfortunately for you being willing to pay is not the issue. If there is no power to supply, no money in the world will help you. You can't buy your way out of this one. Instead do what you can to save power.

And I am no expert but I am not convinced by your argument that using excess power outside of peek hours does not cause a problem. Power is created by Eskom and then supplied, if you happen to use this at 2am or 4pm you are using it! I too have an huge issue with company lights, pcs etc being left on all night. Surely leaving PCs on for the whole night to enable you to run a 10 minute AV update is pure waste....?! But then again the power crisis is someone elses problem not yours!

I personally love the idea of rations and/or increased cost as people who have for years used excess power unnecessarily will be the ones to suffer.
 
I am just curious as to why there is this focus on nuclear power. i mean if we go and drop another nuclear station in, great stuff. it will resolve the base load needs of the country, however it is expensive to build and to run. you need to buy nuclear fuel and then have the expense of the disposal of nuclear waste. not to mention the risk of a possible meltdown due to some unskilled person welding a seam in the reactor core the wrong way. im sorry but i just dont see that the benefits of another nuclear reactor outweigh the possible and definite negatives.

why not take a 10 square km patch of the karroo where almost no rain falls and almost nothing grows and throw in a mother of a solar farm? if they lay the cabling first it would mean that as each panel is put in it can immediatly be wired into the national grid. solar is now cheaper than coal according to a report i read somewhere. thus it is way cheaper than nuclear. you also have no fuel cost or waste disposal costs.

there are plenty of ways they can get this resolved within a year but the entire country seems to be so fixated with nuclear power that nobody is giving any thought to alternate means.

those massive wind turbines that you see in the holywood movies are capable of generating 6 MW each. how about lining our coastlines with those? each time you add one in it is one less suburb that needs to be loadshed.

on a side note i fail to see how less than a year ago we had enough elecrtricity to run the country without the need for loadshedding and now they shed heavily. unless someone can tell me where that extra drain is coming from im gonna think that there is something way not right with this situation. you dont go from having enough to having a massive shortage in 12 months. I still think eskom is yanking everyone around for one of two reasons, 1) they didnt get the 18% increase they wanted or 2) they werent allowed to drop in their pebble bed reactor and are now trying to make it look so bad that people will eventually let them do anything just to stop the load shedding.

just my 2 cents worth.

Piggy

Wind, solar etc. aren't yet reliable enough for base load generation I don't think. IIRC they can't be used for more than 20% of power generation.
 
I realise that we do need to become more economical with electricity, even without this whole Eskom business. But really, are we at the point where you have to huddle next to a lamp in a dark room in a dark house?

That is seriously impacting quality of living.

Yeah, it just feels so depressing to be surrounded by darkness like that.
 
Well I stumbled across this thread as a result of using Google to find out prices and suppliers of geyser blankets, as I was wanting to do my small bit to try and solve the current problem, and sadly I was not at all surprised to find this sort of attitude being expressed on this forum. I have in fact limited my reading of off topic threads on here due to the overwhelming negativity contained in most of them.

Again that selfish attitude of "why should I have to suffer" comes to the fore. Sh_t this country is screwed with people who have this attitude amongst us. Luckily the ones that say things like this are usually also the ones threatening to leave, so there is hope for the rest of us!

Unfortunately for you being willing to pay is not the issue. If there is no power to supply, no money in the world will help you. You can't buy your way out of this one. Instead do what you can to save power.

And I am no expert but I am not convinced by your argument that using excess power outside of peek hours does not cause a problem. Power is created by Eskom and then supplied, if you happen to use this at 2am or 4pm you are using it! I too have an huge issue with company lights, pcs etc being left on all night. Surely leaving PCs on for the whole night to enable you to run a 10 minute AV update is pure waste....?! But then again the power crisis is someone elses problem not yours!

I personally love the idea of rations and/or increased cost as people who have for years used excess power unnecessarily will be the ones to suffer.

This country wouldn't be screwed if the idiots in power had run things properly. Then as long as people paid for their power there wouldn't be a problem. Don't portray people that use a service and pay for it as abusers, you start to sound like Telkom. There is a massive difference between using power at 2 am and 4 pm, surely this is common sense?
 
Hey Catheryn, I get what you're saying. And you are right in that it is unfair. But you live in a double story house with how many light bulbs burning? There is some guy living in a shack or a room with just one light and he is being affected by the power outages just like you are. Isn't that unfair as well.

He is having to suffer so you and I can enjoy the things we feel we are entitled to.

We can blame, refuse and deny until the cows come home. It helps no one.

We're like children crying for more candy after we've already emptied the bag.

Considering he voted for the ANC its more unfair on us, he's getting what he voted for.
 
This country wouldn't be screwed if the idiots in power had run things properly. Then as long as people paid for their power there wouldn't be a problem. Don't portray people that use a service and pay for it as abusers, you start to sound like Telkom. There is a massive difference between using power at 2 am and 4 pm, surely this is common sense?

Surely not!! If Eskom is able to generate 3000mW, if you as a consumer then use this power at 2am or 4pm how does this make a difference? You are still consuming non renewable energy?
 
Surely not!! If Eskom is able to generate 3000mW, if you as a consumer then use this power at 2am or 4pm how does this make a difference? You are still consuming non renewable energy?

The point is demand peaks at 4 pm so overall consumption will be say 2900MW, using power at 4 pm therefore has more impact on the network when its close to or at capacity than at 2 am when overall consumption is e.g. 1500MW. Base load generation is pretty constant throughout the day, but demand isn't. If we could reduce peak demand we'd solve most of the problems even if overall demand remained constant.
 
Surely not!! If Eskom is able to generate 3000mW, if you as a consumer then use this power at 2am or 4pm how does this make a difference? You are still consuming non renewable energy?

If Eskom generates 300MW but the users draw 4000MW then something must give as it is not available. That is just it. Simple but they can supply the 3000Mw 24/7 thus the request to use extra power at off peak periods. Now they want to apply penalties if you use the power in off peak times too by virtue of this fixed quota? A bunch of idiots this government and Eskom leadership. Erwin is the biggest ass and should be skinned as now he talks with strength but he is the biggest failure.
 
The point is demand peaks at 4 pm so overall consumption will be say 2900MW, using power at 4 pm therefore has more impact on the network when its close to or at capacity than at 2 am when overall consumption is e.g. 1500MW. Base load generation is pretty constant throughout the day, but demand isn't. If we could reduce peak demand we'd solve most of the problems even if overall demand remained constant.

Something I would like clarification on.... is energy produced and then supplied directly on to the national grid or can it be stored in any way?

You hear Eskom talking about their "reserves" dipping below 10% etc. To me this implies that they are able to "store" the power for use during peak times. Now to me this means that saving electricity at 2am will help just as much as at 4pm.

Also if your argument held then why would load sheds be scheduled for after 6 at night and before 6 in the morning in Natal?
 
Something I would like clarification on.... is energy produced and then supplied directly on to the national grid or can it be stored in any way?

You hear Eskom talking about their "reserves" dipping below 10% etc. To me this implies that they are able to "store" the power for use during peak times. Now to me this means that saving electricity at 2am will help just as much as at 4pm.

Also if your argument held then why would load sheds be scheduled for after 6 at night and before 6 in the morning in Natal?

It's not generally feasible to 'store' electricity on any significant scale, it's generally produced and supplied directly.

I think what you're referring to is when Eskom talks about their so-called "reserve margin". If your economy needs say 10MW peak, your generating capacity needs to be higher than that by some margin, for various reasons, e.g. a.o. (a) you can never have 100% available (a small portion will always be down for maintenance, plus there are some limits in the network / distribution mechanisms) and (b) to be able to handle peaking above 10MW. So you build a 'reserve margin' into generating capacity, I don't recall the international benchmark for this but it's higher than 10%. Eskom has at least two problems: (1) Their reserve margin (potential max generating minus economy's needs) is smaller than it needs to be - probably around 10% only, and (2) a significant percentage (around 20%, estimated) of their potential generating capacity is currently 'stuffed' - e.g. BEE coal supplier problems (I'm sure that's a euphemism for 'corruption and stealing from the country'), poor maintenance leading to multiple breakdowns, etc.) - so their theoretical reserve might be 'enough' (if they're telling the truth and IF they were supplying at full potential) but in fact 20% is stuffed, so 10% - 20%, they're producing less than we need. Cuts must occur. This also strains the system and leads to further breakdowns. So when Eskom says their reserve margin is 'going below 10%' they're just trying to say they 'really don't have enough', but in a weasel-word-lying kind of way that is supposed to make you think there is 'actually' still enough, because they are implying they are "still in the reserve margin" as opposed to "truly in the negative" (if you fudge the math badly you can indeed make it look that way), to downplay the scale of the problem. So you see, you might think it's just bad luck you're sitting in the dark (that's what you're supposed to think), when in fact half the country probably is.

AFAIK one of the mini 'peak times' are the before work and after work times, because lights are on and people are e.g. cooking breakfast/supper, showering etc. - stoves and geysers are quite high usage - possibly work-time is worse, but they rotate the shedding, so one area gets hit for the morning/evening peaks, other areas get hit for work time etc., so that all areas at least have power during some times of day. It's difficult to say though, exactly, what's happening with the "before 6am" ... but industrial customers need massive amounts of power for example, and often need it 24 hours, thus there might still not be enough, and/or it could be that there's not enough even then because some sections are broken.
 
Last edited:
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X