Antenna installation and alignment

[jcheek]

Noob Question!

Telkom installer will be coming to install Poynting Antenna as received With Telkom LTE Uncapped package tomorrow.
Do i need to supply any parts for example pole, screws needed etc or do they bring those with for installation purposes?

Thanx!

Hey Wolf-1, welcome!

It's probably best to ask (or search for) this question over in the Telkom Uncapped LTE thread - there are folks there who have already been through the Uncapped deal mill and can tell you exactly what is and isn't supplied.

 

[Saba'a]

Pole your own issue.

 

[David]

I also noticed that over the past 4 months I would get a signal degradation on the B315 after the router had been connected for extended periods of time. Basically the signal would drop off by 2 to 3 bars from full. This would stay like this until the router was physically powered off then on again. Just the other day I noticed that a firmware update was being pushed out to the B315's and one of the issues reportedly included is stability over long term connection, so lets see if this firmware updated fixes the issue. Any one else experienced this?

 

[sajunky]

Which current version of router firmware and which network ou are refering to?

 

[David]

Which current version of router firmware and which network ou are refering to?

Sorry should have been more specific, Its Telkom LTE, the router is B315s--936 and current firmware is now 21.313.03.00.372. The one thing i noticed the firmware updated did reset the mobile connection type to Auto, so I put it back to 4G only. On the Telkom LTE uncapped packaged it will sometimes connect with full signal to 3G, but you cannot get any internet access on 3G.

 

[sajunky]

Sorry should have been more specific, Its Telkom LTE, the router is B315s--936 and current firmware is now 21.313.03.00.372. The one thing i noticed the firmware updated did reset the mobile connection type to Auto, so I put it back to 4G only. On the Telkom LTE uncapped packaged it will sometimes connect with full signal to 3G, but you cannot get any internet access on 3G.

Yip, locking to 4G is a right things on Telkom unlimited, unless you want to use USSD. Coming back to your question, I saw overseas reports that firmware 21.311 was giving very good speeds comparing to previous one, but also reports of router giving up a ghost during transfering large files.

I think your observation is related to the above. It could be overheating causing lowering signal level (which depends on many factors). New firmware could be tuned by adjusting thermal protection down. It means reducing transfer rates automatically when internal temperature hit the maximum and avoiding triggering internal faults in silicon which can disappear only after removing power. It will be interesting to hear your experience with the current firmware.

 

[David]

Currently router much more stable than it has been in the past, to be more specific the signal level is way more stable. Was getting fluctuations in signal levels in the past, so I cannot say for certain if the Antenna re-alignment had anything to do with it or if it was the firmware upgrade or a combination of both? Both we done last week.

 

[sajunky]

I think a new firmware is generally improved. Only missing Cell ID.

 

[David]

I think a new firmware is generally improved. Only missing Cell ID.

I am not sure what you mean, mine has Cell ID?

 

[sajunky]

I am not sure what you mean, mine has Cell ID?

It is Cell C branded. Yours is also 21.311, but Telkom branded.

 

[kyrian]

May you please send a step-by-step instructions on how to build it...

 

[Tjoker]

What is the latest firmware for the B315 (Telkom) ?

 

[jcheek]

What is the latest firmware for the B315 (Telkom) ?

Mis-posted ?
Check here somewhere.

 

[Tjoker]

Thank you jcheek.

I have a couple more questions, but first my current setup:

Telkom LTE Uncapped
Router : Hauwaie B315
Antenna : poynting xpol-0006-10m
Extras : 10m extension cable

The best stats i can get :

RSRP : -92 dBm
SINR : 12 dB

So those are my final stats after playing extensively with alignment around me. My biggest problem that im experiencing, is two signals very close to each other. Cell ID 16947715 is my best result, but most of the time, Cell ID 16947712 locks in, stats are the same, but the download speed is horrible no matter what. 2-4Mbps download horrible. So i have to restart the modem till it pics up 16947715 again.

Will it be worthwhile to replace the Poynting XBOL-0006-10m with the 2xLDPA-0092?

When I remove the 10m extra cable, the signal improves to -88dBm, but SINR stays the same, and download speed the same. This experience tells me that stable SINR is key.

Any suggestions welcome to improve my stats

EDIT : Should I post this in my own thread and work from there?

 

[jcheek]

Should I post this in my own thread and work from there?

Nope, right here is just fine.

I have a couple more questions, but first my current setup:
Telkom LTE Uncapped
Router : Huawei B315
Antenna : poynting xpol-0006-10m
Extras : 10m extension cable

So if I understand correctly, you have the 10m of cable that comes with the XPOL-0006-10M, plus another 10m extension ?
If so, be aware that each 10m of cable is losing you about 6dBm of signal power, which is huge (approx 0.6dB loss per metre).
That 20m cable run means you are losing 12dBm of signal power, which means you are working with 1/16th of the signal relative to what is available at the antenna.
As a rule of thumb, I would recommend trying to keep your antenna cables shorter than 5m. If you can't do that, at least lose the 10m extension cable.
Rather than use such lengthy antenna cables, place the modem closer to the antenna and use wired ethernet or Wi-Fi to join the rest of your network.

The best stats i can get :
RSRP : -92 dBm
SINR : 12 dB

Not terrible stats, but also not that great. Ideally you want to get your RSRP (usable signal power) up above -85dBm, which may then improve your RSRQ and SINR as a result.
What is your actual RSRQ ? The "ideal" is around -6dB or higher, I suspect you are probably seeing a lower figure, maybe -8 or -10 ?

So those are my final stats after playing extensively with alignment around me.

In my view, it is better to first find out where the stations are so that you know exactly where to point your antenna and what other stations are in the area. You can then also conduct on-the-spot tests at each station to make an informed choice as to which one you want to aim for. Looking at the Telkom uncapped maps will tell you exactly where the uncapped LTE stations are. Looking at the "plain" LTE coverage maps will tell you where all LTE stations are. For the moment at least, it seems that you can get uncapped LTE service from either type of station, either intentionally or unintentionally.

My biggest problem that I'm experiencing, is two signals very close to each other. Cell ID 16947715 is my best result, but most of the time, Cell ID 16947712 locks in, stats are the same, but the download speed is horrible no matter what. 2-4Mbps download horrible. So i have to restart the modem till it pics up 16947715 again.

From the similarity between those 2 CellID numbers, it looks to me like they might be different frequencies or different sector antennas on the same station. Since you have the "new" XPOL-0006 antenna, which supports both 1800MHz and 2300MHz, it could also be that your B315 is switching you between those frequencies, with different performance.
Search this thread for clues on how to interpret the CellID.
In this thread the guys are also experimenting with ways (editing a config file) to lock the modem to one specific frequency.

Will it be worthwhile to replace the Poynting XBOL-0006-10m with the 2xLDPA-0092?

Personally, I would doubt it. The gain and directionality are quite similar between the XPOL-0006 and LPDA-0092.
If it is truly the case that you have two different stations with a very small angular separation between them, you might be able to make use of the "beam" of a directional antenna to "aim off" to one side and cause one signal to be favoured over the other. In that respect, I think that a twin-LPDA-0092 setup will work much the same as the XPOL-0006-10M.

PS: Your points about long antenna cables and the merits of the LPDA-0092 versus the XPOL-0006 are very similar to those that bear101 raised here. Have a read through the material there too.

When I remove the 10m extra cable, the signal improves to -88dBm, but SINR stays the same, and download speed the same. This experience tells me that stable SINR is key.

Losing the extra 10m of cable accounts for the 4dBm increases in signal power (more or less). -88dBm is getting to be a reasonable signal strength, but your SINR figure is still quite poor, yes. I would suspect your RSRQ is also below -6dB, another indicator of poor signal quality.
Search this thread for the term "SINR" and you will see that the guys with good signals are getting SINR > 20dB.

Any suggestions welcome to improve my stats

Here's my recommended "recipe" :

1. Find out exactly where your nearest Telkom LTE stations are. All of them, not just the "uncapped" ones.
2. Go visit each station and test it for signal quality and performance. Take pics so that you can recognise it from the rooftop at your place.
3. Figure out which stations (if any) you have line-of-sight to, and which are nearest. These may not be the same.
4. From the relative station performances and proximity/line-of-sight to your place, decide which you want to try and connect to.
5. Experiment with locking your B315 to one frequency or the other.
6. Learn how to interpret Cell_ID and which values belong to which stations and what frequencies.
7. Test the performance (signal/speed) using the B315 (no external antenna) from your rooftop. Then test with the XPOL-0006 aligning to the station(s) of interest.
8. Figure out which station and network (1800MHz or 2300MHz) gives you the "best" performance and tune your setup for it.
9. Site your B315 as close to the antenna as you can reasonably manage, and shorten the antenna cables to suit.

Bear in mind that the "best" station is quite likely to change over time. Conditions on the two Telkom networks (1.8GHz and 2.3GHz) are constantly changing : new users, more loading, backhaul upgrades etc etc.

 

[Tjoker]

Wow, thanks jcheek, thank you very much for the very detailed feedback. Ill go through it all and report back

As for getting the cell tower info....

I cannot use my phone, as it takes a nano sim, and the Telkom one is micro with adapter for modem

However, I have an old iPad2. This only picks up to 3G, but should be enough to identify towers in my area?

Is there a place in iOS where I can check all the cell tower info? Or is there a reliable iPad app, in iTunes or Cydia?

 

[jcheek]

Wow, thanks jcheek, thank you very much for the very detailed feedback. Ill go through it all and report back

Pleasure. We look forward to hearing how you get on!

As for getting the cell tower info....
I cannot use my phone, as it takes a nano sim, and the Telkom one is micro with adapter for modem
However, I have an old iPad2. This only picks up to 3G, but should be enough to identify towers in my area?
Is there a place in iOS where I can check all the cell tower info? Or is there a reliable iPad app, in iTunes or Cydia?

IMO, the best is to use your B315 itself, with the Telkom SIM, as described here. You have an advantage (over the B593 described there) in that the B315 reports Cell_ID. Or at least, some do. It seems some later firmware versions removed the feature again (?).

 

[Tjoker]

Personally, I would doubt it. The gain and directionality are quite similar between the XPOL-0006 and LPDA-0092.
If it is truly the case that you have two different stations with a very small angular separation between them, you might be able to make use of the "beam" of a directional antenna to "aim off" to one side and cause one signal to be favoured over the other. In that respect, I think that a twin-LPDA-0092 setup will work much the same as the XPOL-0006-10M.

Ok cool, will stick with XBOL-0006

So if I understand correctly, you have the 10m of cable that comes with the XPOL-0006-10M, plus another 10m extension ?
If so, be aware that each 10m of cable is losing you about 6dBm of signal power, which is huge (approx 0.6dB loss per metre).
That 20m cable run means you are losing 12dBm of signal power, which means you are working with 1/16th of the signal relative to what is available at the antenna.
As a rule of thumb, I would recommend trying to keep your antenna cables shorter than 5m. If you can't do that, at least lose the 10m extension cable.
Rather than use such lengthy antenna cables, place the modem closer to the antenna and use wired ethernet or Wi-Fi to join the rest of your network.

Ok cool, current plan is to visit Poynting CT this afternoon and shorten the cable to 4.5m I will also remove the 10m extension cable. The B315s will stay in the roof, and ill run an ethernet cable from the B315 to my old Netgear ADSL modem(will configure as a switch) and setup my network this way.

I have a 2m mast outside, think I must get a 3m mast while im at Poynting, you never know what an extra meter can do. The above cable shortening to 4.5m, has the 3m mast length factored in.

What is your actual RSRQ ? The "ideal" is around -6dB or higher, I suspect you are probably seeing a lower figure, maybe -8 or -10 ?

Mmmmm, I couldn't find a RSRQ value anywhere, if remember correctly. But running http://192.168.1.1/api/device/signal gives me this return :

21 16947715 -101dBm 12dB 7

The values 21 and 7 baffles me a bit....

EDIT :

IMO, the best is to use your B315 itself, with the Telkom SIM, as described here. You have an advantage (over the B593 described there) in that the B315 reports Cell_ID. Or at least, some do. It seems some later firmware versions removed the feature again (?).

Now to find a 12V Car lighter adapter

Was think of getting a Telkom Prepaid sim and use that in my phone if cannot get the above.

 

[jcheek]

The B315s will stay in the roof, and ill run an ethernet cable from the B315 to my old Netgear ADSL modem(will configure as a switch) and setup my network this way.

That's a good scheme.
If your Netgear has a WAN port (or a dual-purpose LAN port that can be configured as one), then it probably makes sense to use it as a router, since it probably has better routing options than the B315.

Mmmmm, I couldn't find a RSRQ value anywhere, if remember correctly. But running http://192.168.1.1/api/device/signal gives me this return :
21 16947715 -101dBm 12dB 7
The values 21 and 7 baffles me a bit....

Try this ?
The '7' looks like the 'mode' value.

Now to find a 12V Car lighter adapter

Double-check that the polarity is the same on the adapter you buy. On the B593 it's centre positive, but you don't want to get that wrong!

 

[Muttley]

That's a good scheme.
If your Netgear has a WAN port (or a dual-purpose LAN port that can be configured as one), then it probably makes sense to use it as a router, since it probably has better routing options than the B315.



Try this ?
The '7' looks like the 'mode' value.



Double-check that the polarity is the same on the adapter you buy. On the B593 it's centre positive, but you don't want to get that wrong!

jcheek - I think that must be one of the most detailed responses (right at the top of this page) that I've come across in a very long time.

Kudo's to you!