"Are we intoxicated by the whine"

[LancelotSA]

and there, you basically have it...

so Joe Sunshine is positive on his blog vs Published documents on South African Institute of Race Relations who don't quite paint the same picture..... mmm

I would not embrace this quote quite so gleefully if I was you :"Expecting the worst and hoping for the best isn’t an ideal recipe for living life but it is a pretty good survival mechanism for living in South Africa."

Your type do far from hoping for the best. In fact you hope for the worst so that it allows you to say you told us. You hope the world cup will fail. You hope there is a civil war. You hope for anything negative just so you an rub your hands in glee and say you knew it, typical Africa!

I won't even raise the point that it mentions that it is far from an ideal way of living. Funny my "survival mechanism" has done me just fine for 30 odd years!

 

[blonde one]

It's a forum made up of intoxicated whiners and then there are the others who sat on the corkscrew - it sounds like a perfect combination of sour grapes all round

 

[LancelotSA]

I do know that, and yes, i DO vote every time, and yes i DO force people around me to go and vote [not who to vote for, just to vote], but you are not seeing the big picture here, you know the saying "Poep teen donderweer"?

So you agree that it is important to use your vote yet you choose to argue about that exact point?

 

[killadoob]

I am being honest, you trying to convince people about something does not make anymore true than some religious oke trying to convince me dude. You are basically crying and moaning and then you cry and moan about people crying and moaning

Then for good measure when it's pointed out you call troll!!!!!!

Anyways back on topic i would like to hear dj's answer about the reality bit

Lance you are missing the pretty obvious in your face fact of life, the majority of our nation is black the majority of the majority vote ANC our vote means F all unless the majority of our nation start voting for the same party as the rest of the intelligent folk are voting for. How are you failing to grasp that? So obviously it is important to use your vote but obviously the vote won't mean shyte if the majority are voting anc.

 

[LancelotSA]

So Bizkit, we have settled the voting issue but seeing as though you appear to be one of the whiners let's cover the rest :

It is always easier to criticise than do. Maybe instead of being an armchair griper, get involved. Stand for election, form or join your neighbourhood watch, attend CPF meetings, volunteer to help a charity, feed a hungry child, play your part as a citizen of this country. Most of all, use your vote. You can change this country.

Let's tick those off....

 

[LancelotSA]

I am being honest, you trying to convince people about something does not make anymore true than some religious oke trying to convince me dude. You are basically crying and moaning and then you cry and moan about people crying and moaning

Then for good measure when it's pointed out you call troll!!!!!!

So that's your response to me asking you to point out where I said there is no crime? Yeah right! And now while we are at it please head out and find the thread where I called "troll". Killa, you are showing yourself to be a seasoned liar.

 

[DJ...]

It's a forum made up of intoxicated whiners and then there are the others who sat on the corkscrew - it sounds like a perfect combination of sour grapes all round

Hahaha. Very clever...

 

[LancelotSA]

Lance you are missing the pretty obvious in your face fact of life, the majority of our nation is black the majority of the majority vote ANC our vote means F all unless the majority of our nation start voting for the same party as the rest of the intelligent folk are voting for. How are you failing to grasp that?

Killa, I am not even going to point out the stupidity of this statement..... oh no

So obviously it is important to use your vote but obviously the vote won't mean shyte if the majority are voting anc.

So let me get this straight. Your vote is worth f-all BUT it is important to use your vote. WHAT?!?!

 

[killadoob]

So that's your response to me asking you to point out where I said there is no crime? Yeah right! And now while we are at it please head out and find the thread where I called "troll". Killa, you are showing yourself to be a seasoned liar.

Sorry the troll comment was directed at wizard, my bad for not quoting him.

You said you live in a complex with no burglar bars and you feel safe if i recall, when i was reading some of the your posts about the world cup i recall you saying crime is not as bad as the media makes it out to be.

 

[Bizkit87]

Between a healthy, subjective balance between the two. Unfortunately (and understandably considering the current state of affairs) there is no balance for most people. Most have swung towards being either one of the two. In my experience, many whites have become pessimistic with no optimism - they've given up hope and are waiting for everyone else to solve the problem.

An optimist however often takes action. However there are optimists who oppose pessimism on the basis that nothing is wrong. I'm not one of those, but I do lean towards optimism.

Where would you consider yourself to be?

I agree with what you say. But i'm leaning towards being pessimistic, let me make an example

Negative things:
Baby beatings
Murders
Rapings
Hi jackings
Corruption
Julius
etc
etc

Positive:
WORLD CUP !!!!!!!

I'm not taking the above as my actual standpoint, but that unfortunately is the reality of our country, i don't know if some people are so scared/intimidated/ashamed of all these negative things in our country, that they run away from it, and then focus on the positives. example:

Positive Lance*: "But we have a beautiful country, and we have the world cup"
The rest: " Yes we do, but what about the crime, rapings, murders, corruption, education, state of infrastructure, state of medical practitioners"
Positive Lance: "But we have a beautiful country, and we have the world cup"
The rest: " erm, ok.... but what are going to do about people like Julius, who is a national embarrassment?"
Positive Lance: "But we have a beautiful country, and we have the world cup"
The rest: " ok, that's nice, put that in the positive column.. but what about AIDS, and lack of employment"
Positive Lance: "But we have a beautiful country, and we have the world cup"

So what i'm trying to point out above is that even if we do have awesome things in this country, we should not make it more important than the negative things, just because the negative things aren't "nice and pretty"

basically, Having the world cup is great, but it does nothing for me except national pride [so, the world cup does not directly affect me], but being murdered/raped/etc/etc DOES affect us, that why we need to have a look, and heavily criticise the things that COULD potentially affect me in a massive negative way [i could be killed vs 'what a nice game of soccer at loftus']









* no correlation to any person on this site

 

[blunomore]

Lance :

It is important to be optimistic. Much more useful than dragging everyone down with you. I also agree that we should all take some form of positive action to improve things. If everyone tried to make a small difference in their immediate environment at the very least, then the world would be a better place.

That being said, sometimes, if you have lived long enough and bothered to look at history, you can see something coming a mile away. If all the signs are there then it is only an ostrich that will pretend that things are good and that trouble is not upon us.

 

[LancelotSA]

Sorry the troll comment was directed at wizard, my bad for not quoting him.

You said you live in a complex with no burglar bars and you feel safe if i recall, when i was reading some of the your posts about the world cup i recall you saying crime is not as bad as the media makes it out to be.

I can't ever remember referring to the media although I have repeatedly quoted statistics showing that crime in general is not spiralling out of control like some members insist and also that it was stupid chasing tourists away from the world cup claiming they are highly likely to be raped and murdered, and I quoted figures to show why I felt this. I still stand by those comments.

But seeing as though you raise the point about media I will quite happily state that crime is not as bad as some make out. The UK paper claiming machete wielding gangs are roaming the streets killing whites for example! They are not the gospel when it comes to truth. They want to sell papers to the likes of yourself. If you bothered reading the original post in it's entirety you would have picked up that those comments were made by the editor of a paper. One that was getting complaints about publishing good news. Now tell me bad news does not sell papers!

As regards comments about where I live I have also stated that I walk the streets without fear (I have also added that I would not walk through Warwick triangle at 3am). This does not mean that I deny crime exists it merely means that I choose to live my life, take precautions but if something happens, it happens.

 

[killadoob]

Lance :

It is important to be optimistic. Much more useful than dragging everyone down with you. I also agree that we should all take some form of positive action to improve things. If everyone tried to make a small difference in their immediate environment at the very least, then the world would be a better place.

That being said, sometimes, if you have lived long enough and bothered to look at history, you can see something coming a mile away. If all the signs are there then it is only an ostrich that will pretend that things are good and that trouble is not upon us.

Yup, i tend to prefer reality and the reality is SA is in a bad state and only going to get worse.

I do not know how to be optimistic when when i have seen all the crap that happens in africa. I do not not know how to change corrupt officials, i do not know how to stop the 80000 murders a year, the raping of babies etc.

I also feel very safe lance, i am not going to lie but the reality is anything can happen to anyone at any point. Denying that is a lie. We have been broken into 3 times but i still safe, i make damn sure i lock up the house and let the dogs roam at night because i know maybe next time they won't just steal items.

 

[LancelotSA]

Lance :

It is important to be optimistic. Much more useful than dragging everyone down with you. I also agree that we should all take some form of positive action to improve things. If everyone tried to make a small difference in their immediate environment at the very least, then the world would be a better place.

I am still awaiting Bizkit's response to what he is doing besides voting and bitching...

That being said, sometimes, if you have lived long enough and bothered to look at history, you can see something coming a mile away. If all the signs are there then it is only an ostrich that will pretend that things are good and that trouble is not upon us.

That's your view which is great. But annoyingly for you my view would be why can't we be different. Why do we have to look at a few other African countries, although only one is ever used and that is Zim, that have followed similar paths and say we have to end up like that. Why can't we buck the trend? We had a democratic election without civil war and major unrest. Not sure I have seen this elsewhere.

 

[Bizkit87]

So Bizkit, we have settled the voting issue but seeing as though you appear to be one of the whiners let's cover the rest :



Let's tick those off....

Ok, lets do:

i work basically 7 days a week, I do apologize that i don't have time in between making a living, and trying to secure that i can provide for my family one day when its necessary, that i don't have time to work at a soup kitchen....

I'm sorry that I do spend the free time that i do have, by either playing sports [am i not allowed to?], or trying to work/study towards my Masters degree...

Lance, I PAY TAX, AND A SHTLOAD OF IT, SO THERE IS MY CONTRIBUTION. our lovely government should use that tax that i pay to:

form or join your neighbourhood watch

- I pay tax, and its also in the constitution that the government is suppose to protect me, why do we have police if I have to join a neighbourhood watch [in fact, neighbourhood watches were formed because the police can't protect us]

attend CPF meetings

- why? for the free cake?

volunteer to help a charity, feed a hungry child,

- I do monthly donations to a certain charity, isn't that enough? why do we have hungry children? is it MY FAULT that an unemployed, unskilled low life can't afford to provide for his family? Is it my fault that this same guy has 12 children? again, i pay tax, government gives social grants...

SO YES LANCE, I think I'm doing more than enough, and more than my fair share of contributing positively to this county....

the other side of the coin is also true, not just are MOST of us doing the above, but we don't do crime, we don't rape, we don't steal.

So you get a double positive from us....

I feel it is my RIGHT as a CONTRIBUTING citizen of this country, that I can complain about the things that are not right. but being africa, a prisoner has more say than I do.... and better protected than I am...

 

[LancelotSA]

I do not know how to be optimistic when when i have seen all the crap that happens in africa. I do not not know how to change corrupt officials, i do not know how to stop the 80000 murders a year, the raping of babies etc.

So we throw our hands in the air surrender and cry, moan, bleat and whine about it non stop in an attempt to, as stated in that article, allow us to "relish the superior feeling it gives us"

This comment is spot on. It's why people constantly refer to "them", "us", "they"... we are all South Africans, but saying this allows one to appear far superior than "them".

 

[blunomore]

That's your view which is great. But annoyingly for you my view would be why can't we be different. Why do we have to look at a few other African countries, although only one is ever used and that is Zim, that have followed similar paths and say we have to end up like that. Why can't we buck the trend? We had a democratic election without civil war and major unrest. Not sure I have seen this elsewhere.

Not being snarky at all, but there are lots of books on Africa and the political history of the continent and in reading, you may find the answers you are looking for.

 

[killadoob]

Not being snarky at all, but there are lots of books on Africa and the political history of the continent and in reading, you may find the answers you are looking for.

He says a few countries as if it is only a few.

Damn lance it is majority of africa not a few countries. Sadly lance we cannot buck the trend, lance in africa it seems as soon as a black government is in power the country is destined for destruction (yes call me a racist i know it's coming). Can you see the signs in this country? I can see the signs of this country not bucking the trend and i can see signs of this country following the trend.

 

[DJ...]

Ok, lets do:

i work basically 7 days a week, I do apologize that i don't have time in between making a living, and trying to secure that i can provide for my family one day when its necessary, that i don't have time to work at a soup kitchen....

I'm sorry that I do spend the free time that i do have, by either playing sports [am i not allowed to?], or trying to work/study towards my Masters degree...

Lance, I PAY TAX, AND A SHTLOAD OF IT, SO THERE IS MY CONTRIBUTION. our lovely government should use that tax that i pay to:

- I pay tax, and its also in the constitution that the government is suppose to protect me, why do we have police if I have to join a neighbourhood watch [in fact, neighbourhood watches were formed because the police can't protect us]

- why? for the free cake?

- I do monthly donations to a certain charity, isn't that enough? why do we have hungry children? is it MY FAULT that an unemployed, unskilled low life can't afford to provide for his family? Is it my fault that this same guy has 12 children? again, i pay tax, government gives social grants...

SO YES LANCE, I think I'm doing more than enough, and more than my fair share of contributing positively to this county....

the other side of the coin is also true, not just are MOST of us doing the above, but we don't do crime, we don't rape, we don't steal.

So you get a double positive from us....

I feel it is my RIGHT as a CONTRIBUTING citizen of this country, that I can complain about the things that are not right. but being africa, a prisoner has more say than I do.... and better protected than I am...

It's this kind of attitude that irks me the most to be honest. You won't get involved in your community, yet will bitch when something happens. You donate to a charity so believe that's enough - you've done your part. And I'd hazard a guess that you believe that all these issues are government's responsibility and absolutely not yours. Well therein lies the problem, because you;ve faced reality and realised that government is inept, yet you do absolutely nothing about it, apart form bitch and moan and vote "anyone but ANC". It's a sad state of affairs when people give up without even trying to fight for something you clearly believe in...

 

[LancelotSA]

Ok, lets do:

So you do nothing. And of course your excuse is that you just don't have time. I too have a job. I too have a family to support and feed (although it sounds like you don't yet). Now I should not really feel the need to get involved as, according to all of you, I think things are perfect and therefore I should be content to sit back and do nothing. Yet I attend the CPF meetings in my area whenever possible. Not to eat free cake but to hear what is happening in the area. They are not every night. In fact they are not every week. It is one night out of your routine every so often. I am part of the neighbourhood watch. I don't partake in actual patrols but I have the numbers of the relevant people and know who my neighbours are. I haven't volunteered for a charity recently but I have volunteered to work at the world cup. This way I don't just get to bitch about things not going right, I get to be hands on to do my bit to ensure they go well.

This does not make me a hero of course (in fact far from it) and that is not my intention. My intention is to do my bit where I can. Of course I could do a lot more, we always could. But it is interesting to find out how many of the moaners are actually doing something instead of just moaning.