"Are we intoxicated by the whine"

[DJ...]

True.
The plan I guess is to have a pretty balance view which is neither blindly optimistic nor rabidly pessimistic.

[edit ... and there are a fair number of forumites who fit into one of those 2 categories]

Agree 100%. What would be liberating is if those who belong to either of the two camps just took one day to commit to not commenting on anything they normally would, and have an opposite day - would be a treat to watch happen... But in all seriousness, it is a liberating feeling...

 

[DJ...]

if all of this is true, then i applaud you, and well done on it.

But please i beg of you... show me where:

24 hours a day:

i usually try and sleep about 8 of them.

16 hours left:

I work between 8 and sometimes 11 of them

8 - 5 hours left:

This is the gap in which i basically have to live my life in. Most of it now is spend studying [I'm trying my masters, and another SAP certification].

Do you suggest i neglect my own life, just so I can go out and make SA a better place, you guys are all saying "just do something small", then we do something small to help, and its not good enough for you guys...

anyway, i'm out of this thread, as this can go on forever, and Lance has not once answered the questions i posed to him [big surprise].

I'm doing more than enough [I've not once mentioned church related work, but to do that on here opens up a whole new form of abuse], and i know I'm not doing anything to harm South Africa, if you think thats not enough, then thats your problem...

I just find it hilarious that you guys are saying just because we basically don't devout our lives to fixing this country, we should shut up about murders/rape/corruption etc etc etc....

1 - it's not up to me to schedule your diary. However I lead a hectic lifestyle and these things mean something to me, so I make the time. We all make time for things we care about.

2 - I've never said that you should shutup about crime and so on. In fact I've posted several "negative" threads in PD, particularly relating to child rape and education. However it doesn't stop me from posting the odd positive thread, however it never received the attention that the negative ones do. I don't go around posting only positivity like Lance does, however I share many of his sentiments - far too many people are unwarrantedly negative about our country, and blind to the positive. The same could be said about the optimists, I'm sure...

 

[LancelotSA]

Where do we start? This optimism, stop whining and do something sounds interesting. I keep hearing from lance and now you that we do nothing to help stop the major problems in this country so enlighten us. Maybe make a thread about it so the rest of the forum can learn how to stop corruption and crime.

I think this was covered in the original article! Read it. We also discussed some of the things already. This is not an exhaustive list, however, as there is plenty you could do. Another simple one is not deliberately chasing tourists away under the guise of thinking about their safety. For every 12 tourists you chase you are begrudging someone a job! You see how it doesn't really take much effort on your behalf to make a difference....

As regards crime, here you go, some specifics for you on what you can do :

http://warwickchapman.com/how-were-going-to-stop-crime-in-south-africa

 

[killadoob]

She was a good person not sure how it was taken as name calling.

So dj nobody should moan about corruption, poverty, the aids infection rate out of control or crime. We should shut up and take it up the bum? Maybe i will amount to nothing one day who knows but one thing is for sure a corrupt government will take us all the way to be being just another African statistic begging for the west to help.

 

[LancelotSA]

8 - 5 hours left

Let's use 8 as I feel 5 is an exaggeration anyway... so that is 56 free hours in a week. One hour to volunteer for charity work on a Saturday morning, or evening if you are working. One hour once a month (which is not even the case but let's load it in your favour) to attend your CPF meeting in your area. That still leaves you 51 hours to do you own thing every month. Only 5 given up to help others!

anyway, i'm out of this thread, as this can go on forever, and Lance has not once answered the questions i posed to him [big surprise].

Possibly missed those because as I mentioned earlier I too have a life and had things to do but feel free to ask them again. I suspect they will be some sort of extreme question that probably required no answer but go ahead then....

 

[Bizkit87]

1 - it's not up to me to schedule your diary. However I lead a hectic lifestyle and these things mean something to me, so I make the time. We all make time for things we care about.

2 - I've never said that you should shutup about crime and so on. In fact I've posted several "negative" threads in PD, particularly relating to child rape and education. However it doesn't stop me from posting the odd positive thread, however it never received the attention that the negative ones do. I don't go around posting only positivity like Lance does, however I share many of his sentiments - far too many people are unwarrantedly negative about our country, and blind to the positive. The same could be said about the optimists, I'm sure...

well true, and I'm all for being excited about positive things. But like i said already, the negatives of this country is just SO much more worse, and life impacting than the positive ones. If you are walking in the bush, and break your leg, are you glad that you are in a beautiful veld, or are you worried about your leg [stupid analogy, i know, but bear with me] ... you are worried about your leg, because that is the thing that is having the biggest impact on your life right now!

the crime/corruption/etc is this country's "broken leg" right now, so even though we have a lot of "beautiful bushes/veld's" around us, we need to attend to this broken leg first, afterwards, the veld would be so much better to enjoy .....

 

[DJ...]

She was a good person not sure how it was taken as name calling.

It was the implied connotation, killa. Read it within context. It was also wholly sarcastic...

So dj nobody should moan about corruption, poverty, the aids infection rate out of control or crime. We should shut up and take it up the bum? Maybe i will amount to nothing one day who knows but one thing is for sure a corrupt government will take us all the way to be being just another African statistic begging for the west to help.

Please read my previous post - in no way do I condone placing our heads in the sand...

 

[LancelotSA]

well true, and I'm all for being excited about positive things. But like i said already, the negatives of this country is just SO much more worse, and life impacting than the positive ones. If you are walking in the bush, and break your leg, are you glad that you are in a beautiful veld, or are you worried about your leg [stupid analogy, i know, but bear with me] ... you are worried about your leg, because that is the thing that is having the biggest impact on your life right now!

Ridiculously stupid analogy but you brought it up so let's run with it. If you are walking in the bush and you are aware that others have broken their legs doing the same thing, do you worry about your leg or are you just glad to be in the beautiful bushveld?

I personally would be aware of the dangers of breaking my leg but I sure as hell will not let it stop me from enjoying my walk in the bush. I will be on the look out for dangers. I would also not be stupid enough to warn everyone else to not dare walk in the bushveld as they could break their leg! At best I'd warn them of any dangerous places but would encourage them to get out there and enjoy it for themselves.

 

[DJ...]

well true, and I'm all for being excited about positive things. But like i said already, the negatives of this country is just SO much more worse, and life impacting than the positive ones. If you are walking in the bush, and break your leg, are you glad that you are in a beautiful veld, or are you worried about your leg [stupid analogy, i know, but bear with me] ... you are worried about your leg, because that is the thing that is having the biggest impact on your life right now!

the crime/corruption/etc is this country's "broken leg" right now, so even though we have a lot of "beautiful bushes/veld's" around us, we need to attend to this broken leg first, afterwards, the veld would be so much better to enjoy .....

The broken leg can heal. But YOU need to go and have it seen to before it does. See my point?

BTW, I bet you'd make time in your day to get that leg sorted out...

 

[killadoob]

I think this was covered in the original article! Read it. We also discussed some of the things already. This is not an exhaustive list, however, as there is plenty you could do. Another simple one is not deliberately chasing tourists away under the guise of thinking about their safety. For every 12 tourists you chase you are begrudging someone a job! You see how it doesn't really take much effort on your behalf to make a difference....

As regards crime, here you go, some specifics for you on what you can do :

http://warwickchapman.com/how-were-going-to-stop-crime-in-south-africa

How many people do think get chased away when tourists see our high levels of crime? How many jobs are lost? I am all for positive thinking if it involves some realistic views along with it and not this happy clappy SA is amazing BS you seem to portray.

 

[Bizkit87]

Let's use 8 as I feel 5 is an exaggeration anyway... so that is 56 free hours in a week. One hour to volunteer for charity work on a Saturday morning, or evening if you are working. One hour once a month (which is not even the case but let's load it in your favour) to attend your CPF meeting in your area. That still leaves you 51 hours to do you own thing every month. Only 5 given up to help others!

you'll be surprised how much hours a week is spend when you work as an IT consultant

but i've now seen that my monthly contribution to charities is not enough, so thanks to DJ.. and Lance, i have a bit of spare cash now every month [i'm not doing enough, so why bother right? ]

anyway, so be it.....

 

[Bizkit87]

Ridiculously stupid analogy but you brought it up so let's run with it. If you are walking in the bush and you are aware that others have broken their legs doing the same thing, do you worry about your leg or are you just glad to be in the beautiful bushveld?

I personally would be aware of the dangers of breaking my leg but I sure as hell will not let it stop me from enjoying my walk in the bush. I will be on the look out for dangers. I would also not be stupid enough to warn everyone else to not dare walk in the bushveld as they could break their leg! At best I'd warn them of any dangerous places but would encourage them to get out there and enjoy it for themselves.

boet, i think you misunderstood the bush/broken leg thing ... read it again...

The broken leg can heal. But YOU need to go and have it seen to before it does. See my point?

I do, but you don't see mine...

 

[DJ...]

you'll be surprised how much hours a week is spend when you work as an IT consultant

but i've now seen that my monthly contribution to charities is not enough, so thanks to DJ.. and Lance, i have a bit of spare cash now every month [i'm not doing enough, so why bother right? ]

anyway, so be it.....

If that's what you take out of this conversation then I'm a little sad...

 

[LancelotSA]

How many people do think get chased away when tourists see our high levels of crime? How many jobs are lost? I am all for positive thinking if it involves some realistic views along with it and not this happy clappy SA is amazing BS you seem to portray.

I do think South Africa is amazing. Your point?

boet, i think you misunderstood the bush/broken leg thing ... read it again...



I do, but you don't see mine...

Clearly you don't express yourself properly if both of us misunderstood you.

You may have missed it, unless you avoided it as you accused me of doing, but I challenged you to ask those questions again that I apparently ignored.

 

[DJ...]

I do, but you don't see mine...

I kinda got the point of it. You're saying deal with the issues that are affecting you directly, no?

All I'm saying is, if you never actually take the first step by your own accord to fix the country/your broken leg (you're right, it is a stupid analogy but I'll run with it), you're stuffed. But to continue it a bit - what you're doing right now is this:

You've broken your leg and you're now crying out about how k@k this bushveld is because it made you break your leg. I'm saying pick up your bloody cellphone and call someone, then have it seen to.

Okay, stupid anlogy over...

 

[killadoob]

It was the implied connotation, killa. Read it within context. It was also wholly sarcastic...



Please read my previous post - in no way do I condone placing our heads in the sand...

So do you agree our government is corrupt? our police has 10000 members in jail(well they are no longer part of the police force). How many police officers are not corrupt should be the question. I might have some optimism in me DJ if i was shown just the slightly glimmer of hope for this country but as it stands the government is corrupt, the police force is corrupt, crime is just way out of control and the government is doing nothing to curb it, i don't think anyone realizes how out of control aids is and i would hate to see the stats if every single person was tested.

You have malema causing kuk and not being removed, you have farms being handed to useless people. The only ray of sunshine i can see at the moment is the world cup.

 

[Jola]

If that's what you take out of this conversation then I'm a little sad...

DJ, you have to bear in mind that some people work quite long hours, earning high incomes which are taxed at 40%. This makes a major contribution to government coffers, and could conceivably make a much more beneficial contribution to the country than the few personal hours that you may spend. The fact that much of this money gets stolen or misspent is not the fault of the contributor.

IMHO some of your comments are somewhat inconsiderate, short-sighted, and self-rightous.

 

[LancelotSA]

I realise I am treading on dangerous ground saying this but I will risk it. And again let me state up front that I am not stating there is no crime and I am not belittling the crime situation in this country. I have always said one murder is one too many! I also realise that it is perhaps not something you would want to come and share on a forum but it is after all anonymous and you'd think it would be a good place to express yourself and vent. But just a question.....

Has anyone ever posted a story on here about a loved one being killed, as a result of a criminal activity, or raped?

And AGAIN no matter the answer, I am not saying there is no crime, I am just interested in seeing whether in a diverse forum like this someone actually has first hand experience and to what extent it has affected members.

 

[killadoob]

Well ex's father was hi jacked outside his house and shot at, you would not believe a 50 year old could scale a wall as fast as he did . One of my best mates was hijacked at gun point and that also had a happy ending. House been broken into 4 times luckily once again happy ending.

Neither my mate nor my ex's father live in fear though. Not all cases like i have experienced end as well though.

I just thought to myself that i am saying a hijacking at gun point had a happy ending

 

[DJ...]

DJ, you have to bear in mind that some people work quite long hours, earning high incomes which are taxed at 40%. This makes a major contribution to government coffers, and could conceivably make a much more beneficial contribution to the country than the few personal hours that you may spend. The fact that much of this money gets stolen or misspent is not the fault of the contributor.

IMHO some of your comments are somewhat inconsiderate, and short-sighted.

How so? I also get fscked off when my tax is ill-spent. And I'm also pretty damn sure that I earn far more than the majority of the forumites on this board. I find the tax percentage to be rather weak. Whether you're paying 40% or 10%, the money going to waste is the problem.

You keep thinking that because I have some hope for tis country that I don't see the problems. That's just not true. I shouldn't have to justify myself here - it doesn't take a rocket scientists to realise that just because I'm not all doom and gloom, doesn't mean my head is buried in the sand.

Killa, this is in response to you yet again asking me whether I don't see the problems. It appears to be your only line of defence now. That's not the case. I just don't believe that the country is doomed because some sh|t is happening.

However that is not the point of this thread from my perspective (combine it with my responses in the apartheid thread too). All I'm saying is I believe that there is far more we can be doing ourselves to take step 1 in resolving some of these issues. I've already stated that I believe government to be inept - so what do we all just bugger off, give up or do we do something about it? Government can claim all they like that they played a part in resolving the issue if it works - they'll be wrong and the masses will see. But this is a complete pipe-dream on my part.

And remember, just because I don't align myself with your views, doesn't mean I'm against you entirely. I just see a different outcome to the blatant issues and personally, I'd like to play a part in resolving them. If you're not in politics, what can you do to make a difference? That's all I'm asking you to think about...