jannievanzyl
Telecoms expert
Likely where we'll up in at some point on DSL. But by that time the uncapped brigade will be doing 2 to 3TB and you'll be asking for 1TB at R500/month. And so this specific circle of life will continue.....
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Question of the Day: How do you normally pay for purchases in stores?
Are you hurting your ADSL ISP?
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It has already been pointed out that the article is hogwash, but it doesn't seem to have sunk in as the discussion continues in pursuit of the red herring. The fundamental fallacy is that ISPs do not pay for data, they pay for bandwidth i.e the so-called price per GB is meaningless because the ISP is paying for GB/s regardless of the actual amount of data consumed.
The hog is not bankrupting the ISP because so long as the total traffic is shaped to stay within the bandwidth that the ISP has bought, there is no additional cost to the ISP. If someone shot the hog, the ISP's bill would stay the same, but other users might see a slight improvement in performance.
Where it hurts the ISP is if he has to throttle to the point where it affects people who are using moderate amounts of data, then customers become unhappy and leave, so his revenue drops. From the ISP's point of view, the beauty of throttling or shaping based on usage (if it is properly done) is that it hits the customers he doesn't want to keep so they go elsewhere, and the customers that are profitable because they don't use much bandwith have a good user experience and stay.
In short, if you're one of the people complaining about throttling, then you're not going to get sympathy from your ISP because actually he doesn't want you. Go somewhere else where you have to pay for the service you want then you can stop moaning and everyone will be happy.
Please let this myth that badwidth hogs are killing the ISPs die. This article was poorly researched and should never have been published.
Fritz
The hog is not bankrupting the ISP because so long as the total traffic is shaped to stay within the bandwidth that the ISP has bought, there is no additional cost to the ISP. If someone shot the hog, the ISP's bill would stay the same, but other users might see a slight improvement in performance.
Where it hurts the ISP is if he has to throttle to the point where it affects people who are using moderate amounts of data, then customers become unhappy and leave, so his revenue drops. From the ISP's point of view, the beauty of throttling or shaping based on usage (if it is properly done) is that it hits the customers he doesn't want to keep so they go elsewhere, and the customers that are profitable because they don't use much bandwith have a good user experience and stay.
In short, if you're one of the people complaining about throttling, then you're not going to get sympathy from your ISP because actually he doesn't want you. Go somewhere else where you have to pay for the service you want then you can stop moaning and everyone will be happy.
Please let this myth that badwidth hogs are killing the ISPs die. This article was poorly researched and should never have been published.
Fritz
So would you say users who consume a lot of data are not putting a financial strain on their ISP? If you agree they do, then can you explain how the business model works, and what impact high end users have on the business model?
grim
Expert Member
Likely where we'll up in at some point on DSL. But by that time the uncapped brigade will be doing 2 to 3TB and you'll be asking for 1TB at R500/month. And so this specific circle of life will continue.....
I've been on uncapped 10Mb for a little over a year now, was on a 30+100GB (Peak+Off-Peak) cap before that and my average usage is still around 150GB average with the max being about 240GB over December last year.
OT: You going to be at MyBB2013 next week?
grim
Expert Member
Gbps can be worked to GB/m using average network utilization...
I really hope Jannie can make it - especially since he is speaking
grim
Expert Member
rrcatto
Well-Known Member
1265GB in 1 month? WTF are these people downloading? Someone has a serious porn addiction.
Running their own mini ISP.
I wish people would just download what they can consume.
rrcatto
Well-Known Member
The problem is that I own a number of different domains and this changes from year to year. If I used a domain email address, I would have the same problem of changing it from time to time, so I just send all email to either my personal gmail account or a separate anonymous business gmail account.
Beri
Expert Member
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rrcatto
Well-Known Member
I got my Afrihost SIM last month with 6.7GB initially loaded, which I destroyed in 2 days. There's a whole bunch of new TV shows now and my bandwidth usage is going to start picking up again.
If I had an uncapped 20/40Mbps internet link, I'd probably stop downloading 480P movies and instead go for 1080P.
rrcatto
Well-Known Member
This is why it is fundamentally sound to propose that South Africa simply offers a free Internet service to all which is paid out of taxes. A national internet service is fundamentally possible. Usage of the network is 100% free, just like usage of a road is 100% free. The only costs are for installation and for maintenance (which includes the salaries of those employed to make it run). It can be run by private sector companies which tender to run parts of the network. Each province can be responsible for their own network, funded out of tax payers money.
People who wish to use this free network can register to use it (like you do to use libraries) and get an access device which is locked to their account (which ends anonymous use of the network) and assigns the person their own IPv6 subnet that they can deploy on all their devices, so that they can use the network from more than one device. In fact, people can register at libraries for this service.
People can then use this free national network as much as they like without incurring additional cost. It can be offered in parallel to the current commercially run networks, and let the people decide which is the best network to use. The administrators can decide whether to shape it etc. but it should allow uncapped usage - the idea is to allow people continuous access to the internet. Administrators can also block various sites and various protocols. It should also peer with all the major local networks.
This would be of enormous benefit to this country where more than 50% of people do not have internet access because of the high costs involved.
If I was Yunus Carrim, this is what I would propose - a free national internet service. It doesn't have to cater to those who want to game online, view pr0n sites, torrent movies - it just has to give a basic free internet service to every RSA resident.
This would also have the effect of motivating the commercial networks to offer a fundamentally better service at excellent rates.
km2
Expert Member
Yet the whole e-tolling saga shows government isn't happy with this approach, even when roads are something that are required by significantly more people than require internet.
rrcatto
Well-Known Member
Toll roads are 100% unnecessary and are a symptom of the fundamental kreeping korruption of kapitalism.
Socialism is the only way forward. If you embrace kapitalism, eventually you will have to pay for every breath of air you breathe.
The kapitalist modus operandi is always the same: grab a free resource and make others pay for it at exorbitant prices.
Kapitalists don't care whether you're poor, hungry and starving. They still want to sell you food and shelter. Only a Socialist will offer you free food and free shelter.
In this kuntry, shelters for the homeless actually charge the homeless R50 a night. Seriously.
A charity organisation in Diep River which supposedly helps abused and battered women, will not take a woman in, unless they are prepared to pay R1200 a month rent for a room and they don't even allow the women to bathe each day because they only provide hot water twice a week.
The guy who started this is a limey bastard come to this kuntry to take advantage of our vulnerable women.
This is the state of the nation - korrupted by kallous kapitalist kriminals.
If you do not reject kapitalism and embrace Socialism, you will continue to live in this worthless situation, where even charities are not functioning as charities because no-one has the personal moral values to GIVE without getting back.
Even the Christians have lost their salt and become worthless. There is no-one righteous left.
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rrcatto
Well-Known Member
Not via cANCer. Not via kapitalists.
Hopefully, I am not alone in my struggle against the korruption of kriminal kapitalists. But I often feel like I am.
km2
Expert Member
I can tell you that even if it was a full socialist government, and let me be generous and say a competent one, there is no way this would fly. Any government has to prioritise its spending, and in a country that lacks decent public healthcare, needs improved education, improved transport and power infrastructure, those would all rightly take precedence over some internet pipe dream. Those are the things that people need the most, and will make the biggest improvement to their quality of life.