Article: Charlize Theron rape comment sparks outrage

[Falco]

Our economy is getting raped due to all the corruption

 

[Space_Chief]

A metaphor will NEVER be exactly the same in usage... that's why it is called a "metaphor" which is one of a number of figures of speech in the English language.
How is the rape of the Amazon rain forest in any way like physical rape?

No problem with that. Problem is with appropriateness of it. As said, propriety has always been an issue with languages, especially the English language.

Rape (or destruction without any reforestation) of Amazon forest is usually considered to be a very serious thing. It's also thought to be contributing to global warming. But if rape becomes trivialised to any breach of privacy and any act of corruption then what's happening to the Amazon is going to need a new metaphor to retain its meaning as an extraordinarily serious event.

The Oxford English Dictionary.

And it shows nothing to that effect.

 

[Singal]

Intentionally or not, when you water down the language and start throwing words out of context or applying them to significantly less serious events they tend to lose their meaning. Is it OK to say GWB was Adolf Hitler because of Iraq? Well then the next gen of kids will think Hitler was just a guy who started a war but otherwise treated people fairly and according to international rules of engagement.

See for example, it's usage in reference to the Colonialism of India....
http://www.postcolonialweb.org/poldiscourse/rape.html




Interesting because I am anti-PC. But I don't consider this to be pro-PC. I think it dehumanises people and removes their dignity to just apply the same language to trivial situations especially in context of a major celeb speaking out. One can still use it as a metaphor but I would say use it in the context of something like the The Rape of Warsaw, where about 200,000 civilian men, women and children were slaughtered and many were in fact raped. Using the same language to describe feeling bad after having a Paparazzo snap some pictures is just making a mockery of really terrible events, whether the person who says it admits to it, or not, or even realises it.



I disagree. Rape is serious. Murder are serious. Really bad things happen to these people. Likewise war is also serious. One cannot just joke about the word to make it more friendly and huggable. It's not. It's most inappropriate to use it thus. And it does not empower victims to apply metaphors inappropriately.

Excellent post! I don't think that it's getting through that you haven't said that rape should not be used as a metaphor, but that it should be used to describe an act on a par with the severity of a brutal sexual violation.
When you decide you own the word and can use it to describe any little thing in your world, then yes you trivialise the act depicted by that word.

 

[Space_Chief]

Excellent post! I don't think that it's getting through that you haven't said that rape should not be as a metaphor, but that it should be used to describe an act on a par with the severity of a brutal sexual violation.
When you decide you own the word and can use it to describe any little thing in your world, then yes you trivialise the act depicted by that word.

Yes, thank you. That's what I meant too.

 

[LazyLion]

No problem with that. Problem is with appropriateness of it. As said, propriety has always been an issue with languages, especially the English language.

Rape (or destruction without any reforestation) of Amazon forest is usually considered to be a very serious thing. It's also thought to be contributing to global warming. But if rape becomes trivialised to any breach of privacy and any act of corruption then what's happening to the Amazon is going to need a new metaphor to retain its meaning as an extraordinarily serious event.

Who are you to trivialise what is happening to her and other celebrities? Brad Pitt as was hit in the face the other day, assaulted by a fan who broke his has glasses when he hit him in the face. That is actual physical assault.
Jodie Foster had a fan become so obsessed with her that he actually tried to assassinate a president.
Other celebrities have had stalkers and crazies break into their homes and do stuff to their physical possessions.
Many female celebrities have fans photoshopping their heads onto hardcore pornography.
Who are you to say you know what the net psychological effect of all that is?
Maybe it feels like rape to her. You are trivialising her experiences.
She already has a proven track record of working with rape victims, what have you done?

And it shows nothing to that effect.

This is an utter lie. All the links given to you so far in this thread include an outright element of metaphorical usage that is clearly distinct from the physical act of rape.
At least be honest here or there is no further point in debating with you.

 

[LazyLion]

that it should be used to describe an act on a par with the severity of a brutal sexual violation.

Please provide a dictionary authority or other language authority for the above.

 

[Swa]

I'm pretty sure that if you're an A List celeb or similar, you have enough of a budget and the studio probably also contributes too (to protect their investment) to have enough bodyguards, security personnel and PR people to keep your life quite private.

Bodyguards and security can't provide privacy. I'm sure if they could most celebs would spend a lot of their earnings on security personnel. The very fact here is that celebs can be so scrutinised, dehumanised, and hunted down by the media and paparazzi that it could very well leave them feeling as being raped. It's not belittling what people subjected to sexual rape go through. On the contrary you seem to want a word that's been historically used in many ways to be reserved for only a single usage. To me that seems like belittling what these people go through on a daily basis.

Sure you can say they choose their occupation but that's a straw man. Just because someone is talented enough and chooses to be an actress/actor doesn't mean they choose or want the fame that comes with it. If they are at the opening of a movie then sure they can expect all attention to be on them but on a private secluded beach there isn't the expectation of someone a mile away taking photos.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Why do jump to the conclusion that the word rape automatically includes a sexual context?

I see no reason why the context can't be applied to a great many other things.

Mental rape, emotional rape, psychological rape all makes perfect sense to me.

People are too sensitive and jump to bull**** conclusions.

It's a perfectly apt description of HER feelings and just because it doesn't parallel the same feelings of others using the same word doesn't make it wrong.

 

[Swa]

Who are you to trivialise what is happening to her and other celebrities? Brad Pitt as was hit in the face the other day, assaulted by a fan who broke his has glasses when he hit him in the face. That is actual physical assault.
Jodie Foster had a fan become so obsessed with her that he actually tried to assassinate a president.
Other celebrities have had stalkers and crazies break into their homes and do stuff to their physical possessions.
Many female celebrities have fans photoshopping their heads onto hardcore pornography.
Who are you to say you know what the net psychological effect of all that is?
Maybe it feels like rape to her. You are trivialising her experiences.
She already has a proven track record of working with rape victims, what have you done?

Nicely said.

 

[Arthur]

As an aside, technically speaking, at law, rape requires only that the act be non-consensual. Brutality need not be part of it. This point is not meant to trivialize the violation or reprehensibility of rape. Just saying, for clarity.

 

[Space_Chief]

Please provide a dictionary authority or other language authority for the above.

Language is responsible for communication. If your metaphor is getting the wrong message across, it defeats the purpose of language.

BTW I can also appeal to Aristotle who thought that proper command of metaphors was the mark of genius.

 

[Space_Chief]

As an aside, technically speaking, at law, rape requires only that the act be non-consensual. Brutality need not be part of it. This point is not meant to trivialize the violation or reprehensibility of rape. Just saying, for clarity.

Point taken. The act is serious. It need not be brutal, it could be done very gently and would still be rape although the consequences on the individual may differ.

 

[LazyLion]

Language is responsible for communication.

No kidding?

If your metaphor is getting the wrong message across, it defeats the purpose of language.

Who are you to say that her usage of the metaphor was wrong. You are projecting your own opinions and preferences onto her.
(Which by that way can be considered another form of rape).

BTW I can also appeal to Aristotle who thought that proper command of metaphors was the mark of genius.

Actually Aristotle said....

The metaphors are also unknown and unusual, because a usual, well-known word is used to designate something other than its usual designation.

So yeah... thanks for another confirmation of my point.

 

[Arthur]

Indeed. The essential violation is that of the will. And since the act directly concerns the physical integrity of the person, such a violation is taken as a species of assault.

In statutory rape (ie of a minor or person before the age of consent), the victim is regarded at law as being unable to give informed consent, and hence even a consensual sexual engagement is regarded as rape.

 

[Space_Chief]

Bodyguards and security can't provide privacy. I'm sure if they could most celebs would spend a lot of their earnings on security personnel.

Nothing can ever provide total privacy but security personnel and such can provide increased measures thereof. Use of disguises can add to that. Use of tinted windows.

The very fact here is that celebs can be so scrutinised, dehumanised, and hunted down by the media and paparazzi that it could very well leave them feeling as being raped. It's not belittling what people subjected to sexual rape go through. On the contrary you seem to want a word that's been historically used in many ways to be reserved for only a single usage. To me that seems like belittling what these people go through on a daily basis.[/quote]

I don't think they are dehumanised in the same way a victim of rape is. They are being exploited to a degree but who isn't?

I don't want it restricted to single use. I am happy with the Rape of the Amazon Rainforest, Rape of Warsaw and other such terms. I am not happy with using it to denote any violation. Unless we all agree that what happens to celebs is as serious as rape. I may have felt bad when the salesman told me to get lost today, but I did not feel nearly as bad as a rape victim would feel. Consequently it would not be appropriate to use that term in this context as it would not aid the purpose of the language which is accurate communication. Words have meanings.

Sure you can say they choose their occupation but that's a straw man. Just because someone is talented enough and chooses to be an actress/actor doesn't mean they choose or want the fame that comes with it. If they are at the opening of a movie then sure they can expect all attention to be on them but on a private secluded beach there isn't the expectation of someone a mile away taking photos.

There are ways to be a talented actor/actress and keep a low profile. For example Ms Theron could work for a theater company or perform Broadway musicals or star on Egoli on SA TV or work in community theater and so on. She could also turn down certain roles and only focus on less sensationalist portrayals and such. It would probably earn her less money though.

But this is all secondary. Even if the treatment of celebs by media was bad, it would not be in the league of rape. I would consider a stalker to be more akin to someone like a rapist. If Ms Theron stated that a stalker made her feel that way, I would consider that to be more appropriate.

 

[Space_Chief]

No kidding?

Then metaphors should convey meanings accurately.

Who are you to say that her usage of the metaphor was wrong. You are projecting your own opinions and preferences onto her.
(Which by that way can be considered another form of rape).

It's wrong by virtue of its inaccuracy. If the purpose of language is facilitation of accurate communication then metaphors should tend to be appropriate.

You are projecting your opinion that I am wrong.

Actually Aristotle said....
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-rhetoric/
So yeah... thanks for another confirmation of my point.

All in all to convey a meaning. Your point does not discredit me at all.

Note that there is a difference between dialectics and rhetoric. In terms of rhetorical argumentation which Aristotle thought less of, one could play the Humpty Dumpty game and assign different meanings. One is after all only about persuasion, no matter what.

 

[LazyLion]

I actually know of at least one child celebrity who has totally given up on acting because of the crazies and weirdos destroying it for her.

The guy who was stalking her ended up getting arrested for molesting another child.
http://davidstodghill.blogspot.com/
http://cumberlink.com/news/local/co...cle_7e0261d1-46d7-5152-8fc2-cf706efcf7a6.html

She was freaked out because this guy actually confronted her personally on the street several times.
He was so obsessed with her that he created facebook and youtube profiles on her behalf and acted out his fantasies on those profiles.
Here you have a case of obsession to such an extent that it could very well have ended up with actual physical rape (for this actress it did, but to a different person).
Who are you to say what Charlize Theron is saying is not akin to this?
I'm sure there are just as many crazy freaks out there who would not hesitate to rape her.
That is of great concern to her and represents an intrusion into her life.
And you can't blame her by saying she chose that life.
People should be free to live in and do whatever occupation they see fit without any thread of rape.

 

[Space_Chief]

Indeed. The essential violation is that of the will. And since the act directly concerns the physical integrity of the person, such a violation is taken as a species of assault.

So is it accurate to say Arthur that any violation of will is rape? When a cop gives me a ticket against my will he is raping me? Come on.

In statutory rape (ie of a minor or person before the age of consent), the victim is regarded at law as being unable to give informed consent, and hence even a consensual sexual engagement is regarded as rape.

Agree. But this does not make the situation any less serious.

 

[LazyLion]

It's wrong by virtue of its inaccuracy.

How do you know it is inaccurate? You just want it to be to fit your personal preference.
In a way, you are demanding that Charlize Theron, (forcing her!) conform to YOUR preferences and rules.
That is really not much different to rape.

 

[semaphore]

Im raping this bag of ghost pops while reading this. Proceed.