Article: Charlize Theron rape comment sparks outrage

[LazyLion]

So is it accurate to say Arthur that any violation of will is rape? When a cop gives me a ticket against my will he is raping me? Come on.
Agree. But this does not make the situation any less serious.

Stupid example, the act of giving a ticket is not against the law. It is not a violation.
You are not going to prove your point any more by using ridiculous examples.

 

[Necuno]

How do you know it is inaccurate? You just want it to be to fit your personal preference.
In a way, you are demanding that Charlize Theron, (forcing her!) conform to YOUR preferences and rules.
That is really not much different to rape.

It comes with the territory of course:
Just be cause she is a celeb she must be media raped. I mean what else.
Just because there is females in a game they must be objectified raped. I mean what else.
Just because a skirt is worn it must be raped. I mean what else

What a backwards thinking method...

Just because its black it must be looked down as it does come with the territory?

fail.

 

[Space_Chief]

I actually know of at least one child celebrity who has totally given up on acting because of the crazies and weirdos destroying it for her.

The guy who was stalking her ended up getting arrested for molesting another child.
http://davidstodghill.blogspot.com/
http://cumberlink.com/news/local/co...cle_7e0261d1-46d7-5152-8fc2-cf706efcf7a6.html

Stalking is not the same as media.

Who are you to say what Charlize Theron is saying is not akin to this?

Then she may qualify what she meant.

I'm sure there are just as many crazy freaks out there who would not hesitate to rape her.

I'm sure there are many crazy freaks who would rape non-famous people too, so? It's not the same as a completed act of rape.

That is of great concern to her and represents an intrusion into her life.
And you can't blame her by saying she chose that life.

She benefits from the media and hype. It goes with the territory. It's unfortunate but it's how it is. Maybe studios could do something about it by having people play less sensationalist roles, less marketing of films, less money involved, and so on. Many of these actresses / actors sell their bodies/privacy for money. It's marketing and business. It's difficult to turn the tap off when you market yourself so and you do derive benefits.

People should be free to live in and do whatever occupation they see fit without any thread of rape.

Threat of rape can occur regardless of your celeb status. And no one is saying threats of rape are OK. But media intrusions and tabloid posts as well as internet criticism (as looking your name in Google) are not that.

 

[Arthur]

So is it accurate to say Arthur that any violation of will is rape? When a cop gives me a ticket against my will he is raping me? Come on.

That is not what I am saying. Far from it. It is not accurate to call any violation of the will a rape. You cannot uncouple the physical act from the consensual element, since the physical integrity of the person is involved by the very nature of the act.

But the consensual element is definitive. The lack of consent is what makes the physical act a rape.

It is quite possible (and common) for the identical physical act to take place but with consent, in which case it is not in the remotest sense rape.

 

[LazyLion]

I'm out of here.... Space_Chief thinks she should just shut up and take her media rape like a good and meek little victim.
Who the hell is she to open her mouth and defend herself or highlight the problem?
I've had enough.

 

[Necuno]

I'm out of here.... Space_Chief thinks she should just shut up and take her media rape like a good and meek little victim.
Who the hell is she to open her mouth and defend herself or highlight the problem?
I've had enough.

Exactly the kind of backward thinking keeping everything in their backward state.

Space_Chief: Its part thereof so bend over and take it!

FAIL.

 

[Space_Chief]

Stupid example, the act of giving a ticket is not against the law. It is not a violation.
You are not going to prove your point any more by using ridiculous examples.

Hold on it's not a violation of law, but it's a violation of my person. There is a violation of my free will here.

What if the ticket was inaccurate? The cop thought I committed a crime but I didn't. And I can't prove it.

Besides who said that only law describes what is and what's not a violation? Laws change.

So does only law decide metaphor use then?

BTW deforestation of the Amazon Rainforest is not necessarily illegal where it occurs.

 

[Space_Chief]

I'm out of here.... Space_Chief thinks she should just shut up and take her media rape like a good and meek little victim.
Who the hell is she to open her mouth and defend herself or highlight the problem?
I've had enough.

Haha, you don't have to be here.

 

[Space_Chief]

That is not what I am saying. Far from it. It is not accurate to call any violation of the will a rape. You cannot uncouple the physical act from the consensual element, since the physical integrity of the person is involved by the very nature of the act.

But the consensual element is definitive. The lack of consent is what makes the physical act a rape.

It is quite possible (and common) for the identical physical act to take place but with consent, in which case it is not in the remotest sense rape.

So we agree that both propriety and decorum should be kept when using metaphors. And especially so in the context of someone as famous and as respected as Ms Theron.

 

[Arthur]

Of course not. Your point is fair, and I don't quibble with it. We are actually arguing two different threads. Which is silly and pointless.

What gets my goat is the usual PC crowd getting all knotted about Ms Theron's strong and graphic metaphor. They are being too literal and insufficiently literary. She's in the business of showmanship and drama, after all.

 

[Space_Chief]

Exactly the kind of backward thinking keeping everything in their backward state.

Space_Chief: Its part thereof so bend over and take it!

FAIL.

Not really. I never really said she has to take it, but it's still not rape. However many of these celebs want it both ways. They want the publicity but only when it suits them. Well it's a difficult thing to regulate. As such maybe one really has to change ones occupation if one is suffering so much.

It's not uncommon for people to give up competitive sports for example, when their health mandated so, especially in the context of damage to the body from the sports.

 

[LazyLion]

Exactly the kind of backward thinking keeping everything in their backward state.

Space_Chief: Its part thereof so bend over and take it!

FAIL.

It's disgusting that misogynistic men still think they can force their physical and mental selves onto women!
Sickens me to my stomach.

 

[Space_Chief]

Of course not. Your point is fair, and I don't quibble with it. We are actually arguing two different threads. Which is silly and pointless.

Sorry then.

What gets my goat is the usual PC crowd getting all knotted about Ms Theron's strong and graphic metaphor. They are being too literal and insufficiently literary. She's in the business of showmanship and drama, after all.

I agree that the PC are overboard. Look at the whole rape culture thing. Or visual rape. That harms more real victims of rape than mere bland statements by this actress.

Still it's nice as said to have Hollywood types get a taste of activism once in a while and in this case I agree that the typical celeb violations are not in the league of typical rape. Of course if Ms Theron has more to substantiate this she may actually have a case to say she felt raped, maybe the incident she describes was of a more serious nature which could elicit such emotions in her.

 

[Swa]

Nothing can ever provide total privacy but security personnel and such can provide increased measures thereof. Use of disguises can add to that. Use of tinted windows.

Security personnel can provide security not privacy. They can prevent someone from coming up too close and hitting you in the face but they can't stop the guy standing behind from taking a photo and how are they going to do it a mile from a beach anyway? So they should make themselves unrecognisable and hide behind closed doors not living their lives? You make my point.

I don't think they are dehumanised in the same way a victim of rape is. They are being exploited to a degree but who isn't?

Have you been subjected to the same so that you would know? Have you had your head plastered onto a naked body or a picture taken in your private residence in a way that you would not be seen in public? When someone has a picture taken of them in a changing room not even naked with a cheap camera they can describe it as feeling violated and raped and everyone cries sexual predator but someone constantly being stalked and subjected to telescopic lenses somehow doesn't get afforded the same.

I don't want it restricted to single use. I am happy with the Rape of the Amazon Rainforest, Rape of Warsaw and other such terms. I am not happy with using it to denote any violation. Unless we all agree that what happens to celebs is as serious as rape. I may have felt bad when the salesman told me to get lost today, but I did not feel nearly as bad as a rape victim would feel. Consequently it would not be appropriate to use that term in this context as it would not aid the purpose of the language which is accurate communication. Words have meanings.

And you decide what those meanings are? No the dictionary does. Your nonsensical analogies aside, the word Nazi has a clear historical meaning and another use of it would not suffice. The word "rape" actually has a historical meaning that does not refer to sexual rape specifically. You just feel that using it in that manner is somehow belittling it if the rape is not of a serious nature.

There are ways to be a talented actor/actress and keep a low profile. For example Ms Theron could work for a theater company or perform Broadway musicals or star on Egoli on SA TV or work in community theater and so on. She could also turn down certain roles and only focus on less sensationalist portrayals and such. It would probably earn her less money though.

You said it. Would you be comfortable with less money and choose a job where your talent will be wasted? Somehow I don't think you'll answer affirmatively and agree that it's a standard we should accept.

But this is all secondary. Even if the treatment of celebs by media was bad, it would not be in the league of rape. I would consider a stalker to be more akin to someone like a rapist. If Ms Theron stated that a stalker made her feel that way, I would consider that to be more appropriate.

It IS bad. The media and paparazzi ARE stalkers. Not necessarily of the dangerous nature but I know of one who was so hunted down by them about her personal life that her car crashed in a tunnel and she didn't even choose her fame but was born into it.

 

[Arthur]

Necuno, you are wrongly, unfairly and gratuitously attributing views to Space Chief that cannot possibly be supported by anything he says or even suggests. Your latter statements are completely fanciful.

 

[Space_Chief]

It's disgusting that misogynistic men still think they can force their physical and mental selves onto women!
Sickens me to my stomach.

Actually men can get raped too. You never know if I wasn't a victim of rape.

 

[Necuno]

It's disgusting that misogynistic men still think they can force their physical and mental selves onto women!
Sickens me to my stomach.

Yeah and mr space really solved it for us so we must just accept it as:

It's [just] part of show business.
It's [just] part of gaming.
It's [just] part of show religion.
It's [just] part of < insert >.

 

[Vrotappel]

No problem with that. Problem is with appropriateness of it. As said, propriety has always been an issue with languages, especially the English language.

Rape (or destruction without any reforestation) of Amazon forest is usually considered to be a very serious thing. It's also thought to be contributing to global warming. But if rape becomes trivialised to any breach of privacy and any act of corruption then what's happening to the Amazon is going to need a new metaphor to retain its meaning as an extraordinarily serious event.



And it shows nothing to that effect.

All for one and one for all.

 

[Space_Chief]

Security personnel can provide security not privacy. They can prevent someone from coming up too close and hitting you in the face but they can't stop the guy standing behind from taking a photo and how are they going to do it a mile from a beach anyway? So they should make themselves unrecognisable and hide behind closed doors not living their lives? You make my point.

When you tell the reporter to turn off his camera you are increasing the celeb's privacy.

Have you been subjected to the same so that you would know? Have you had your head plastered onto a naked body or a picture taken in your private residence in a way that you would not be seen in public? When someone has a picture taken of them in a changing room not even naked with a cheap camera they can describe it as feeling violated and raped and everyone cries sexual predator but someone constantly being stalked and subjected to telescopic lenses somehow doesn't get afforded the same.

So is that the same as rape then? Or are you saying that people who are in the business who play strange roles - sometimes psychos, sometimes prostitutes, sometimes porn stars and murderers and so on, have more issues when some clown does it on the internet to them on Youtube and everybody knows it's a photoshop?

Is this also limited to celebs? Because I seem to get a lot of flack and insults in just this thread from people who haven't learned to argue points and instead attack posters? Should I also consider myself raped too? Of course not.

And you decide what those meanings are? No the dictionary does. Your nonsensical analogies aside, the word Nazi has a clear historical meaning and another use of it would not suffice. The word "rape" actually has a historical meaning that does not refer to sexual rape specifically. You just feel that using it in that manner is somehow belittling it if the rape is not of a serious nature.

She said: "I don't do that, so that's my saving grace. When you start living in that world, and doing that, you start I guess feeling raped."

I don't think she implied the meaning of deforestation or plundering of Gaia's natural resources. It's not as if her bank accounts are being miked dry. It's more likely she meant the usual crime of rape - what's happening commonly in Indian and South Africa to so many women and girls, and even men and boys.

Nazi is being used commonly to describe people not remotely like the real Nazis. Two examples: Feminazi and Grammar Nazi.
GWB has been compared to a Nazi many times - look here's a counterargument: http://groupthink.jezebel.com/george-w-bush-is-not-hitler-1468334803

You said it. Would you be comfortable with less money and choose a job where your talent will be wasted? Somehow I don't think you'll answer affirmatively and agree that it's a standard we should accept.

Are you implying that only money is a measure of talent? It may be that the higher paying jobs are more linked to paparazzos. A naive teenage Ms Theron may not have seen that but I'm sure she sees that now.

It IS bad. The media and paparazzi ARE stalkers. Not necessarily of the dangerous nature but I know of one who was so hunted down by them about her personal life that her car crashed in a tunnel and she didn't even choose her fame but was born into it.

They are like stalkers, in the same way SARS is like a stalker too. Look that's inaccurate. In some way they are like stalkers but if you're comparing the fear of having your swimsuit picture taken with the fear of being murdered or raped by a stalker, I think these two are way different.

 

[Swa]

Hold on it's not a violation of law, but it's a violation of my person. There is a violation of my free will here.

What if the ticket was inaccurate? The cop thought I committed a crime but I didn't. And I can't prove it.

Besides who said that only law describes what is and what's not a violation? Laws change.

So does only law decide metaphor use then?

BTW deforestation of the Amazon Rainforest is not necessarily illegal where it occurs.

It's not a personal violation. You are given your chance to defend yourself in a court. It's not up to you to prove yourself innocent but he should prove you're guilty. To that extend there's also a bunch of other technical requirements that must be met.