Article: Charlize Theron rape comment sparks outrage

Yeah and mr space really solved it for us so we must just accept it as:

It's [just] part of show business.
It's [just] part of gaming.
It's [just] part of show religion.
It's [just] part of < insert >.

No-one is asking you to accept anything.

I just don't see how you can compare a girl in India who's been raped to a celeb who hates that the media intrudes in her privacy.
 
It's not a personal violation. You are given your chance to defend yourself in a court. It's not up to you to prove yourself innocent but he should prove you're guilty. To that extend there's also a bunch of other technical requirements that must be met.

Yeah and the justice system always works and the cops don't lie to cover for each other and you have money for a lawyer or you're intelligent or emotionally strong enough to go to court etc.

And when raped you get to go to court too and the judge puts the bad guy in jail and all's well again.
 
SC, people are not making these equivalent.

They are very different in both substance and degree. I think we all recognize that.

Language by its nature cannot be univocal. There's a context and an epoch that qualifies how any term is to be parsed.

Words are not insignificant or arbitrary, of course. But we shouldn't become unmoored from the meanings intended by the speaker. Of course words can be poorly chosen. But let's try to parse what the speaker intended.

And of course you and everyone here knows that.

I'm moving back to the rugby.
 
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When you tell the reporter to turn off his camera you are increasing the celeb's privacy.
Show us where that is within the law and he has to comply.

So is that the same as rape then? Or are you saying that people who are in the business who play strange roles - sometimes psychos, sometimes prostitutes, sometimes porn stars and murderers and so on, have more issues when some clown does it on the internet to them on Youtube and everybody knows it's a photoshop?

Is this also limited to celebs? Because I seem to get a lot of flack and insults in just this thread from people who haven't learned to argue points and instead attack posters? Should I also consider myself raped too? Of course not.
Nice dodge of the example I gave and trying to put words into my mouth.

I don't think she implied the meaning of deforestation or plundering of Gaia's natural resources. It's not as if her bank accounts are being miked dry. It's more likely she meant the usual crime of rape - what's happening commonly in Indian and South Africa to so many women and girls, and even men and boys.
Again the dictionary includes more than one or two meanings. It doesn't have to refer to forests if not referring to sexual rape to be a valid use.

Nazi is being used commonly to describe people not remotely like the real Nazis. Two examples: Feminazi and Grammar Nazi.
GWB has been compared to a Nazi many times - look here's a counterargument: http://groupthink.jezebel.com/george-w-bush-is-not-hitler-1468334803
And we know what the meaning of those qualifications are. It's also used to denote a demeaner and seriousness about a cause rather than to suggest they are homicidal murderers like the German Nazis.

Are you implying that only money is a measure of talent? It may be that the higher paying jobs are more linked to paparazzos. A naive teenage Ms Theron may not have seen that but I'm sure she sees that now.
And again you are ignoring what I said and making it up instead. I never said that money is a measure of talent but it is generally the case that where more talent is required the pay is also better. Dodging the main question again.

They are like stalkers, in the same way SARS is like a stalker too. Look that's inaccurate. In some way they are like stalkers but if you're comparing the fear of having your swimsuit picture taken with the fear of being murdered or raped by a stalker, I think these two are way different.
Again deflecting I see. Does SARS stalk you in the same way as paparazzi would following your every move both in professional and personal life or is it simply the case that the law subscribes certain obligations and if you don't comply with them and they become aware of it they institute an investigation and audit?
 
Maybe if the term "context sensitive" wasn't deeply embedded into my brain, I would be complaining.
 
Show us where that is within the law and he has to comply.

For those caught on private property. Otherwise blame the law.

Nice dodge of the example I gave and trying to put words into my mouth.

"Have you been subjected to the same so that you would know? Have you had your head plastered onto a naked body or a picture taken in your private residence in a way that you would not be seen in public? When someone has a picture taken of them in a changing room not even naked with a cheap camera they can describe it as feeling violated and raped and everyone cries sexual predator but someone constantly being stalked and subjected to telescopic lenses somehow doesn't get afforded the same. "

I don't see how that is relevant. Maybe I have been subject to ridicule and then so what? Or maybe not. Maybe I've had private property stolen with personal things on it and had strangers enter my house, strangers who could have shot me? I'm not denying this. So what? That was nowhere like rape. It would be if one of these people actually made physical contact with me and managed to get the better of me. But so what? Celebs are usually not raped either, and if they are, then the comparison of rape to rape is appropriate.

Secondly, I guess the intent is different. The sexual predator is out there to cause sexual harm, either on purpose or not. A paparazzo is not there to do that, but to take pictures.

Likewise a paparazzo is more socially acceptable. That also conditions us what is and what is a greater transgression. A cop or a prosecutor may ask you personal questions and you may answer with more stress than when a doctor or a friendly journalist asks you the same. Context is key. And of course the exposure. Everyone is subject to reporters especially people who do this for much of their time, they give interviews and get photographed all the time.

Again the dictionary includes more than one or two meanings. It doesn't have to refer to forests if not referring to sexual rape to be a valid use.

Context. Modern usage. As many people raised this issue except me you may find that they got the meaning associated with the most commonly used term and that is holding a woman down against her will and shoving one's member into one of her orifices with or without physical threats or other physical contact.


And we know what the meaning of those qualifications are. It's also used to denote a demeaner and seriousness about a cause rather than to suggest they are homicidal murderers like the German Nazis.

The Nazis were quite extraordinary as homicidal murderers. They stood out. On the other hand they are not the only serious people about and certainly not the only people who were fanatical. Like it or not, this makes Nazis more homely especially for less historically literate people - as more and more people are.


And again you are ignoring what I said and making it up instead. I never said that money is a measure of talent but it is generally the case that where more talent is required the pay is also better. Dodging the main question again.

You asked: "
You said it. Would you be comfortable with less money and choose a job where your talent will be wasted? Somehow I don't think you'll answer affirmatively and agree that it's a standard we should accept."

That's a loaded question which assumes that a job with less money is a job where my talent will be underutilised. So why should I walk into your trap? No. I don't believe for a second that talent must always go with pay. We know that there are excellent actors who don't look as well or draw in the numbers and so get paid less. Likewise we know that not only the best paying jobs allow for best self expression in terms of talent. Art is not better if it is more expensive, and show business is not always art. And personally I could earn 10x the money I earn now if I emigrated but I stay in SA for family reasons. My talents would be better utilised elsewhere in terms of remuneration but on the other hand I think the local people I work with also gain a lot as do I here.



Again deflecting I see. Does SARS stalk you in the same way as paparazzi would following your every move both in professional and personal life or is it simply the case that the law subscribes certain obligations and if you don't comply with them and they become aware of it they institute an investigation and audit?

Yes. SARS can throw you in prison where you can get raped and lose custody of your children. You may never be hired again because people consider you a criminal with a record or at least even if no criminal record follows, you may still be considered an untrustworthy person.

And you're trying to throw in some special pleading in here saying that the analogy has to be according to your standard to hold. A celeb caught by a paparazzo is the same as a rape victim who was penetrated and threatened with death or maybe even assaulted physically as well, but SARS is different because of an arbitrary reason. Come on.
 
Show us where that is within the law and he has to comply.

For those caught on private property. Otherwise blame the law.

Nice dodge of the example I gave and trying to put words into my mouth.

"Have you been subjected to the same so that you would know? Have you had your head plastered onto a naked body or a picture taken in your private residence in a way that you would not be seen in public? When someone has a picture taken of them in a changing room not even naked with a cheap camera they can describe it as feeling violated and raped and everyone cries sexual predator but someone constantly being stalked and subjected to telescopic lenses somehow doesn't get afforded the same. "

I don't see how that is relevant. Maybe I have been subject to ridicule and then so what? Or maybe not. Maybe I've had private property stolen with personal things on it and had strangers enter my house, strangers who could have shot me? I'm not denying this. So what? That was nowhere like rape. It would be if one of these people actually made physical contact with me and managed to get the better of me. But so what? Celebs are usually not raped either, and if they are, then the comparison of rape to rape is appropriate.

Secondly, I guess the intent is different. The sexual predator is out there to cause sexual harm, either on purpose or not. A paparazzo is not there to do that, but to take pictures.

Likewise a paparazzo is more socially acceptable. That also conditions us what is and what is a greater transgression. A cop or a prosecutor may ask you personal questions and you may answer with more stress than when a doctor or a friendly journalist asks you the same. Context is key. And of course the exposure. Everyone is subject to reporters especially people who do this for much of their time, they give interviews and get photographed all the time.

Again the dictionary includes more than one or two meanings. It doesn't have to refer to forests if not referring to sexual rape to be a valid use.

Context. Modern usage. As many people raised this issue except me you may find that they got the meaning associated with the most commonly used term and that is holding a woman down against her will and shoving one's member into one of her orifices with or without physical threats or other physical contact.


And we know what the meaning of those qualifications are. It's also used to denote a demeaner and seriousness about a cause rather than to suggest they are homicidal murderers like the German Nazis.

The Nazis were quite extraordinary as homicidal murderers. They stood out. On the other hand they are not the only serious people about and certainly not the only people who were fanatical. Like it or not, this makes Nazis more homely especially for less historically literate people - as more and more people are.


And again you are ignoring what I said and making it up instead. I never said that money is a measure of talent but it is generally the case that where more talent is required the pay is also better. Dodging the main question again.

You asked: "
You said it. Would you be comfortable with less money and choose a job where your talent will be wasted? Somehow I don't think you'll answer affirmatively and agree that it's a standard we should accept."

That's a loaded question which assumes that a job with less money is a job where my talent will be underutilised. So why should I walk into your trap? No. I don't believe for a second that talent must always go with pay. We know that there are excellent actors who don't look as well or draw in the numbers and so get paid less. Likewise we know that not only the best paying jobs allow for best self expression in terms of talent. Art is not better if it is more expensive, and show business is not always art. And personally I could earn 10x the money I earn now if I emigrated but I stay in SA for family reasons. My talents would be better utilised elsewhere in terms of remuneration but on the other hand I think the local people I work with also gain a lot as do I here.



Again deflecting I see. Does SARS stalk you in the same way as paparazzi would following your every move both in professional and personal life or is it simply the case that the law subscribes certain obligations and if you don't comply with them and they become aware of it they institute an investigation and audit?

Yes. SARS can throw you in prison where you can get raped and lose custody of your children. You may never be hired again because people consider you a criminal with a record or at least even if no criminal record follows, you may still be considered an untrustworthy person.

And you're trying to throw in some special pleading in here saying that the analogy has to be according to your standard to hold. A celeb caught by a paparazzo is the same as a rape victim who was penetrated and threatened with death or maybe even assaulted physically as well, but SARS is different because of an arbitrary reason. Come on.
 
At first I also thought she was dumb and insensitive to compare media intrusion into her life to rape and then I read what she really said.

South African-born Theron, who is in the UK to promote her new film A Million Ways To Die In The West, made the remarks after she was asked by Sky News if she ever googled herself.

During the interview, the 38-year-old said: 'I don’t do that, so that’s my saving grace. When you start living in that world, and doing that, you start I guess feeling raped.'

Asked by the interviewer if she felt that strongly about the issue, she said: 'Well, you know when it comes to your son and your private life. Maybe that’s just me.

'Some people might relish all that stuff but there are certain things in my life that I think of as very sacred and I am very protective over them.'

She did not compare it to a sexual violation at all, but rather a violation of her identity, her personhood, who she believes she is. In that context there is nothing wrong in her using the word rape.
 
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Resolved: When all is said and done, and starting with myself, we can all learn to be a bit more judicious in our use of words, especially words that express or denote powerful, dramatic and even traumatic meanings and experiences.

Words are just sounds and scribbles, but the meanings they convey are not.

If we cavalierly or routinely use intensives to describe ordinary or trivial experiences we run the risk of flattening everything. Some things matter more than others, and the way we language those meanings should have due regard for gravity and scale. We can't live sanely in a two dimensional horizontality, where all things have an equal meaning and value, for that is to render everything valueless. Height and depth (in meaning, but also in life itself) cannot be found in the horizontal, but only in the vertical.

Rape is a dramatic word that refers to a dramatic act and a grave violation. Ms Theron is either cavalier and reckless in her use of the term, or she is trying to convey her own strongly-felt sense that sometimes the attentions of the celebrity-obsessed are too intrusive. Perhaps both.

On that we can all agree, surely.
 
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Think I should have read the article instead of all the sensational media headlines :o
 
At first I also thought she was dumb and insensitive to compare media intrusion into her life to rape and then I read what she really said.



She did not compare it to a sexual violation at all, but rather a violation of her identity, her personhood, who she believes she is. In that context there is nothing wrong in her using the word rape.
Exactly how I see it. But the literary nazi seems to have struck telling us how words should be used.
 
But that involves a conundrum.

To have an idea of why it's undesirable to Google herself, she must've Googled herself.

So, it would be more accurate to say, "I Googled myself and found such horrible stuff I'll never do it again".

How she'll stop her kids from doing that is a real challenge.
 
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