Article: Child shoots another in head

[OverKill69]

Ah, a .22 calibre intellect in a .357 Magnum world

Do carry on.

You saying yours is bigger than mine?

 

[Lycanthrope]

Then report him as what he is doing is illegal.

Would love to, unfortunately he happens to be the significant other of a close friend so I'm forced to turn a blind eye. Each time I see the damn gun it's like nails on chalkboard and it upsets me but... meh.

Much more useful than having nothing at all.

I'd rather have nothing than a weapon which could be misused or taken from me and end up killing someone. That just adds to the problem.

My point is that criminals are going to do all this to you whether or not you're armed. At least if you have a gun you have some chance to defend yourself. If you are completely overpowered then you don't go for your gun. But its useful in the situation where it is feasible for you to use it to defend yourself.

We all know our criminals will torture you to death even if you are unarmed so I can't understand why you lot intentionally keep yourselves unarmed. This wish to lie down and die whenever a criminal walks into your house is disturbing to say the least.

Our points are the same then, but they differ in the way that if you take the gun out of the equation, it can't be taken from you, it can't be added to the long list of illegal firearms floating around, it can't be used to harm someone else or destroy a family (like yours).

If you are in a position where a gun would be a useful defence, then I feel a taser would suffice just as readily. Can you give me an example of a situation where you would be able to fire at a criminal without endangering your neighbours with a stray bullet, or, if they're in your home, that you would've been alerted to their presence before they've cornered you?

It's not a wish to lie down and die, it's a desire not to add to the problem.

Take self-defence classes, carry a taser on your person, learn to adequately protect your home and teach your loved ones to always be on guard, sure. A gun is a tool that can be taken from you and used to kill others because your reluctance to live without it and inability to fight off however many criminals went after you. We have a problem in our country with criminals who carry guns, guns they got from other people who couldn't hold on to them and even police.

Arming everyone doesn't solve the problem, it just means criminals will adapt to be significantly more dangerous (no-nonsense, doing it in groups and killing on sight if they get twitchy) when breaking into your home if they suspect you have a firearm.

I'd rather die a martyr than die anyway, giving a bunch of criminals a new toy.

 

[Lycanthrope]

You saying yours is bigger than mine?

I'm saying mine has more stopping power than, "Zomg lulzwtf dub step roflmao lololololol"

You're always welcome to actually contribute something other than dance moves to this discussion.

 

[CyraxHB]

I'd rather have nothing than a weapon which could be misused or taken from me and end up killing someone. That just adds to the problem.

Tell that to the guy in the news the other day who had to watch his wife being raped in front of him. Perhaps if he had a gun next to his bed at night he may have been able to stop it.

Our points are the same then, but they differ in the way that if you take the gun out of the equation, it can't be taken from you, it can't be added to the long list of illegal firearms floating around, it can't be used to harm someone else or destroy a family (like yours).

Guns from the police and army supply criminals well enough. A few extra from civilians won't make any difference. And besides if criminals couldn't get guns from us they would just go shopping in one of the many war zones nearby.

If you are in a position where a gun would be a useful defence, then I feel a taser would suffice just as readily. Can you give me an example of a situation where you would be able to fire at a criminal without endangering your neighbours with a stray bullet, or, if they're in your home, that you would've been alerted to their presence before they've cornered you?

A taser would useless if there is more than one assailant. And yes, target practice makes it possible to shoot accurately thus removing the risk of shooting someone by accident.

It's not a wish to lie down and die, it's a desire not to add to the problem.

Take self-defence classes, carry a taser on your person, learn to adequately protect your home and teach your loved ones to always be on guard, sure. A gun is a tool that can be taken from you and used to kill others because your reluctance to live without it and inability to fight off however many criminals went after you. We have a problem in our country with criminals who carry guns, guns they got from other people who couldn't hold on to them and even police.

Arming everyone doesn't solve the problem, it just means criminals will adapt to be significantly more dangerous (no-nonsense, doing it in groups and killing on sight if they get twitchy) when breaking into your home if they suspect you have a firearm.

I'd rather die a martyr than die anyway, giving a bunch of criminals a new toy.

A car is also a tool that can be used to kill people. Will you be using the same logic and walking everywhere from now on?

 

[Lycanthrope]

Tell that to the guy in the news the other day who had to watch his wife being raped in front of him. Perhaps if he had a gun next to his bed at night he may have been able to stop it.

His wife is still alive then, I take? Perhaps if he had a gun she'd be raped, they'd both be murdered and that would've been the end of that family.

As traumatic as the experience no doubt was, they're both still alive to tell the tale and have the rest of their lives to cherish with their kids, grandkids and loved ones. Time is precious, they still have some.

Guns from the police and army supply criminals well enough. A few extra from civilians won't make any difference. And besides if criminals couldn't get guns from us they would just go shopping in one of the many war zones nearby.

I don't see how this makes anything better.

A taser would useless if there is more than one assailant. And yes, target practice makes it possible to shoot accurately thus removing the risk of shooting someone by accident.

I don't think the criminal intends to stand still while you take aim. Yes, a taser would be useless if there is more than one assailant, just as a gun would be useless if there's more than one assailant with a gun. You a quick draw? Willing to bet your life on being faster than them?

A car is also a tool that can be used to kill people. Will you be using the same logic and walking everywhere from now on?

A car? Really? I was expecting you to say "knife" since, well, I'd like to see a criminal bring a car into someone's house and threaten them with it, or winding down their windows while driving down a street shouting to a nearby pedestrian, "Your wallet, or I drive over you"

I guess hyperbole is the rationale of the day when it comes to these sorts of discussions.

Regardless, no doubt you've noticed the number of people who shouldn't be permitted to drive, yet do because of bad regulations? Same thing applies to gun-owners.

Really should've said knife, since knives are readily available, easy to conceal and quite deadly.

 

[LazyLion]

"armed response" contracts are a false sense of security.

My firearm is a tool I use for MY SECURITY.

I train hard, I train long and I train other people.
I am under no illusions whatsoever.

Some people are content to pay a sum of money and think they're safe. I prefer to take the responsibility on myself.

I give you a scenario:

Your alarm goes off at 2:30am.
what do you do?
Does your "Armed response" rock up? Is it a false alarm? Do you get out of bed and walk straight to the alarm pad and reset the alarm?


Another scenario:

You're driving to your neighborhood security boom.
you stop as usual but you don't see a security guard... instead, 3 people approach your car from all sides.

Another scenario:

Your neighbor's domestic worker rings your intercom.
she's hysterical and all she can say is: they're still in the house with the baby.
Outside the neighbor's gate is car with a masked male occupant who has now seen YOU and the maid looking at him.

Dude, your Username was well chosen..... Way overkill. I'm glad you are not my neighbour, I would fear for my family's safety.

 

[LazyLion]

Just like a swimming pool.
Except... you don't have people having arguments about owning swimming pools when a kid kills itself in one.

Um, actually I remember it being discussed ad nauseam on Talk Radio 702 several times last year. I take it you don't listen to talk radio?

 

[LazyLion]

I know I am... because when you announce yourself as a legal gun owner who trains and shoots regularly... people assume you're a F*#king psychopath who is on the edge of going postal.
When you say: "I'm a firearm instructor", people think you're training murderers.

I have this argument at least twice a week with people who think that they pay somebody else to look after them and feel they're safe.
Then.. 99.99% of people think that guns are straight from the devil, yet depend on police and armed response personnel to arrive brandishing heavy weaponry should they need them.
It is their right apparently...

/end rant

I am hyper sensitive to this argument because I see an ungrateful public admonishing the very tool that they depend on to keep them safe at night.

It's like saying coal mining is bad for the environment... but not willing to give up your air conditioning.

In your case, I would say the accusations are fairly well justified.

If you go from normal to this frothing angry in three posts on a message board, then how do you handle anger issues in real life.
This is very telling. People like you should not be allowed to own guns.

Let me ask you an honest straight forward question. Do you have anger issues? Road Rage? Impatience with your colleagues and family?
I can tell from your posts that these are very likely areas of danger in your life.

 

[OverKill69]

I'm saying mine has more stopping power than, "Zomg lulzwtf dub step roflmao lololololol"

You're always welcome to actually contribute something other than dance moves to this discussion.

You have so many "holes" in your argument that it wouldn't be worth it.

Your opinion is so uninformed, so naive and so "ZOMG Hippie" that "Lol dub step" is actually pertinent.

The only reason why you're in a position to EVEN HAVE AN OPINION on being a pacifist is because you feel that there are warriors out there with guns that have your back.


So when you start saying things like: "I also have a right to live in a gun free south africa" I have to laugh... coz the crims are laughing their asses off at that sort of neo-liberal BS.

I agree... you can choose to not own a gun.
But do not tell me that a gun free SA will make SA safer.

When Criminals are packing full-auto AK's and R4's... which the public are not allowed to own.

They get their guns via different means... a VERY small percentage come from "stolen from public". Those cases are logged with SAPS and the barrel, license and receiver numbers are all well documented... people are held criminally liable if their licensed firearm goes missing due to negligence. With mandatory jail time.

Hero Factor?

I am insulted, sir...

 

[OverKill69]

In your case, I would say the accusations are fairly well justified.

If you go from normal to this frothing angry in three posts on a message board, then how do you handle anger issues in real life.
This is very telling. People like you should not be allowed to own guns.

Let me ask you an honest straight forward question. Do you have anger issues? Road Rage? Impatience with your colleagues and family?
I can tell from your posts that these are very likely areas of danger in your life.

My therapist says I'm making progress...

But I also teach Sunday school so I wasn't sent to prison.

 

[OverKill69]

Um, actually I remember it being discussed ad nauseam on Talk Radio 702 several times last year. I take it you don't listen to talk radio?

LoL... that is actually really funny for reasons I cannot share with this forum.

But they were discussing pool net legislation... not the right to own pools.

 

[OverKill69]

Dude, your Username was well chosen..... Way overkill. I'm glad you are not my neighbour, I would fear for my family's safety.

It just so happens, I am the only reason why those neighbors have their baby and why that domestic isn't dead. And why there's 3 less robbers in the world.

 

[Lycanthrope]

You have so many "holes" in your argument that it wouldn't be worth it.

Your opinion is so uninformed, so naive and so "ZOMG Hippie" that "Lol dub step" is actually pertinent.

The only reason why you're in a position to EVEN HAVE AN OPINION on being a pacifist is because you feel that there are warriors out there with guns that have your back.


So when you start saying things like: "I also have a right to live in a gun free south africa" I have to laugh... coz the crims are laughing their asses off at that sort of neo-liberal BS.

I agree... you can choose to not own a gun.
But do not tell me that a gun free SA will make SA safer.

When Criminals are packing full-auto AK's and R4's... which the public are not allowed to own.

They get their guns via different means... a VERY small percentage come from "stolen from public". Those cases are logged with SAPS and the barrel, license and receiver numbers are all well documented... people are held criminally liable if their licensed firearm goes missing due to negligence. With mandatory jail time.

Hero Factor?

I am insulted, sir...

You are an insanely deluded individual with severe issues that need working out.

It just so happens, I am the only reason why those neighbors have their baby and why that domestic isn't dead. And why there's 3 less robbers in the world.

With a god-complex.

 

[LazyLion]

My therapist says I'm making progress...

But I also teach Sunday school so I wasn't sent to prison.

Well, only you can honestly answer those questions. I'll just leave it at that.
Have a great evening!

 

[CyraxHB]

His wife is still alive then, I take? Perhaps if he had a gun she'd be raped, they'd both be murdered and that would've been the end of that family.

Or he might have shot the assailants ending the threat right there.

As traumatic as the experience no doubt was, they're both still alive to tell the tale and have the rest of their lives to cherish with their kids, grandkids and loved ones. Time is precious, they still have some.

But there are thousands of people who are not so lucky and suffered terrible deaths because they had no way to defend themselves.

I don't see how this makes anything better.

Its not better but it shows that civilian gun ownership will make it no worse.

I don't think the criminal intends to stand still while you take aim. Yes, a taser would be useless if there is more than one assailant, just as a gun would be useless if there's more than one assailant with a gun. You a quick draw? Willing to bet your life on being faster than them?

I think its safe to say I am better at handling a gun than the average criminal. I doubt they have fired thousands of rounds at targets honing their skills.

And how would being unarmed be better?

A car? Really? I was expecting you to say "knife" since, well, I'd like to see a criminal bring a car into someone's house and threaten them with it, or winding down their windows while driving down a street shouting to a nearby pedestrian, "Your wallet, or I drive over you"

I guess hyperbole is the rationale of the day when it comes to these sorts of discussions.

Regardless, no doubt you've noticed the number of people who shouldn't be permitted to drive, yet do because of bad regulations? Same thing applies to gun-owners.

Really should've said knife, since knives are readily available, easy to conceal and quite deadly.

Cars are way more dangerous than guns and many times more people are killed in car accidents than gun accidents, yet you have no problem with them.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Or he might have shot the assailants ending the threat right there.

Speculation, which is all either of us can really do.

But there are thousands of people who are not so lucky and suffered terrible deaths because they had no way to defend themselves.

There are thousands of people who died even though they, in your opinion, had the means to defend themselves.

Its not better but it shows that civilian gun ownership will make it no worse.

Instead we will just be reading more articles like this one? Criminals will find it much easier to access guns (after all, they'd be able to get licences of their own).

I think its safe to say I am better at handling a gun than the average criminal. I doubt they have fired thousands of rounds at targets honing their skills.

I can't say, I suppose it depends on the criminal.

And how would being unarmed be better?

So far, being armed in itself seems to just be a sort of confidence booster. In situations where it would matter, the usefulness of being armed seems to be pretty touch-and-go.

Cars are way more dangerous than guns and many times more people are killed in car accidents than gun accidents, yet you have no problem with them.

I have a problem with bad regulations which permit bad drivers. Fewer people are killed by cars than by guns

Alright, I'll concede that I see where you're coming from. Rather, let me ask you this: what regulations would you enact that would prevent people like Overkill69, my friend's significant other, people who take out their guns whenever they get depressed and the like from being licensed to carry firearms?

Would you agree that the licensing requirement for a firearm be more stringent than a driver's licence? Would you agree that not everyone should own or be responsible for a firearm? Do you agree that someone who wants a firearm is more dangerous than someone who acquires one out of feeling it is a necessary defence?

Do you agree that a gun accident is deadlier than a car accident?

 

[Pitbull]

Have any of you actually taken the life of another human being before?

I love all these cowboys thinking everything is rose coloured and peachy. Seriously, having a gun to be able to protect yourself is a human right. But to actually get to a point where you have a choice either to take a life or die is not as simple as you guys try and make it out to be. Guns gives people a false sense of security as they feel GOD LIKE when they have them on their side. But 90% of the time you will end up either ending up in jail or being killed in one of 2 ways:

1. For having a gun
2. Killed with you own gun

Overkill I know you are going to say you have killed someone already and I call BS anyway. Seriously, taking another human being's life is not that easy.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Have any of you actually taken the life of another human being before?

I love all these cowboys thinking everything is rose coloured and peachy. Seriously, having a gun to be able to protect yourself is a human right. But to actually get to a point where you have a choice either to take a life or die is not as simple as you guys try and make it out to be. Guns gives people a false sense of security as they feel GOD LIKE when they have them on their side. But 90% of the time you will end up either ending up in jail or being killed in one of 2 ways:

1. For having a gun
2. Killed with you own gun

Overkill I know you are going to say you have killed someone already and I call BS anyway. Seriously, taking another human being's life is not that easy.

Well-said

 

[ponder]

Overkill I know you are going to say you have killed someone already and I call BS anyway. Seriously, taking another human being's life is not that easy.

Reading his posts I'm a bit worried about this individual, all does not seem right.

 

[Necuno]

One of the many reasons why I will never own a gun.

i have 3 swords, 1 set of throwing knives, 1 set of ninja throwing pins, the stars as well, a staff, a tri staff, nuchakus, night sticks, short sticks, combat knive, sai's, few weapons i might have left out... still no deaths in my house. same goes with owning a gun, proper procedure == proper safety. then again if you can't follow those and are not willing to kill the other person with it; rather stay away from any sort of weapon.

Have any of you actually taken the life of another human being before?

I love all these cowboys thinking everything is rose coloured and peachy. Seriously, having a gun to be able to protect yourself is a human right. But to actually get to a point where you have a choice either to take a life or die is not as simple as you guys try and make it out to be. Guns gives people a false sense of security as they feel GOD LIKE when they have them on their side. But 90% of the time you will end up either ending up in jail or being killed in one of 2 ways:

1. For having a gun
2. Killed with you own gun

Overkill I know you are going to say you have killed someone already and I call BS anyway. Seriously, taking another human being's life is not that easy.

same with any other weapon, if you can't shoot, aren't trained; you will be killed with your own weapon or by another. chances are good that it will be by your own or you are going to supply someone with a weapon to go and kill someone else...