Article: Israel attacks barbaric: ANC

adielk said:
But Israel is not a secular state. It maintains Israel is a jewish(religious) state. Read their laws.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism_in_Israel#Non-Jews_In_Israel

While the state is mostly run by Jewish parties and seemingly structures its public life and structures in the IDF around Jewish custom, it would appear as if the state doesn't restrict practice of religion nor restrict public freedoms for non-jews. This would be a stark contrast to Egypt or Turkey, where in even these so-called moderate states (contrast perhaps Saudi Arabia) non-islam practice is heavily curtailed.
 
Mila said:
So where should the people go that are not wanted?
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In SA the minority are not wanted either. Many are leaving for other countries. Back in the day Huguenots were not wanted in France and many came here while others went to America.
 
netstrider said:
In SA the minority are not wanted either. Many are leaving for other countries. Back in the day Huguenots were not wanted in France and many came here while others went to America.
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But palestinians not the minority and zionists ... ah what the heck. Waste of time :rolleyes:
 
netstrider said:
In SA the minority are not wanted either. Many are leaving for other countries. Back in the day Huguenots were not wanted in France and many came here while others went to America.
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That still doesn't answer the question. There is a war, not jus a general dislike.
One bunch want the others to pick up and go. Where should they go? You can't just tell them go. Go where?




It amazes me that everybody has not been killed yet.
 
daveza said:
Firstly I'm not jewish so why would I follow a jewish belief.

Are there not muslims who are Abrahamic descendants ? Is this not then also their promised land ?
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Yes, it is also their land, but whether it is your faith or not is irrelevant. Whether they are descendants is also subject to their principles in their faith *in my opinion*.

I will get flogged for this to no end but again I state, it is a religious issue. Something born from the moment Cain killed Abel and two distinct groups of people were formed and Cain and all his descendants were cursed. Israel was always under attack back then until it was taken over and occupied by its opposition for ages. It was later re-established as a sovereign state after WW2 and the attacks have been going on ever since. Coincidence? I think not.

If that does not mean anything then not a lot does.
 
netstrider said:
Yes, it is also their land, but whether it is your faith or not is irrelevant. Whether they are descendants is also subject to their principles in their faith *in my opinion*.

I will get flogged for this to no end but again I state, it is a religious issue. Something born from the moment Cain killed Abel and two distinct groups of people were formed and Cain and all his descendants were cursed. Israel was always under attack back then until it was taken over and occupied by its opposition for ages. It was later re-established as a sovereign state after WW2 and the attacks have been going on ever since. Coincidence? I think not.

If that does not mean anything then not a lot does.
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You're right, religious bollocks like that doesn't mean anything.
 
Mila said:
That still doesn't answer the question. There is a war, not jus a general dislike.
One bunch want the others to pick up and go. Where should they go? You can't just tell them go. Go where?




It amazes me that everybody has not been killed yet.
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I accept your premises. I cannot tell you where they should go as much as I cannot give you a resolution to the problem. Where they go is really irrelevant if you believe they are wrong and if you do not feel they are wrong (which I can understand) makes no difference. Wars create this kind of scenario and it is sad and unfortunate.

Some people can but the reality is just that. It sucks for all and it will suck for everyone on this planet at some point.
 
This is the most illogical war.
Nobody can say what the resolution can be without one party compromised more than the other.

This is like a divorce where the couple ends up fighting forever about a dead dogs ashes.
 
falcon786 said:
I wont be surprised if this is what's driving Gary's viewpoint here.He has done it on the forum before in another unrelated thread,logic can be thrown out when dealing with certain religions for him.



That last statement is what's perplexing,why would people already living on a land not be given legal title to the land,that makes no sense at all,lets displace this ENTIRE population of people to insert another whole population of people here.What in the world was the UN and Britain thinking?Probably the biggest brain fart in the last century and the devastation of that decision is being witnessed until today.

In fact what another poster asked makes sense,why not give the Zionists a piece of Germany since that's the people who supported Hitler and the wiping out of Jews.
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A lot of it has to do with the UN being a bunch of self-serving elite. I would go as far as to say Hitler did not ask for war either based on his declaration which was skewed in the allied press back then in addition to the fact that many big Wall Street companies funded the German side of this war - go figure?

When it comes to the UN/USA, G8, G20 etc. it's got to do with money and what's best for them and the elite few.

War creates two things, wealth for the already wealthy and innovation and development of new technologies. A prime example of innovation is pretty much every war, but we can localise it to our artillery which was considered 30 years ahead of its time during the Border War.

Of course it also serves as cannon fodder.
 
MickeyD said:
Since 1995...
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Not sure what you mean here but the article takes a post full-democracy calculation.

I lived in Paraugay in a very remote town and there were 27 South Africans living in this town all whom had moved post 1994 and is not accounted for in the article so the reality is the numbers are probably even higher.
 
gorgamin said:
I don't care whether I'm right or wrong, I'm just fed up with us South Africans being ignorant and complaining about the ANC. We should all start our own political party the way we complain.
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Which is exactly what happens a year or two out from every major election and the reason we have so many parties who actually mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. A multi-party state is of no use and a democracy is of no use if the masses are not educated.

Education has become a bit of a forceful thing. Gone are the days of self learning, critical thinking and the impetus from governments to encourage their people to explore and innovate. Here are the days when we get a set criteria of books which are predetermined and the examinations are based on questions to serve the corporates that control these states so they may have employees. Not so we may have entrepreneurs and inventors.

This topic could be explored in so much depth it is unreasonable to continue with it here. I will say this however:

There are enough examples of pioneers who changed the world who simply did not fit into a regular education system, many who did not finish schooling or who hated it simply because they felt that what they needed to know they could learn by themselves.
 
thestaggy said:
Uprooting settlements, some of which are are close on 50-years old, won't cause disruptions? Handing over land that you have possibly invested in (roads, utility lines, etc) wouldn't be a big thing? Doing so without your safety guaranteed by your enemies wouldn't make you think twice? Come on now. This is a big deal.

For the umpteenth time in this thread; I know Israel has never handed over/returned land nor have they ever said they will. I know. I am aware of this fact and I never said otherwise, so can we please stop going over this part? I see the faults on both sides and offered a solution. Likewise Hamas and her allies have never acknowledged or committed to recognising Israel's existence. Again, I am aware that neither side has ever committed to any of the above, but I am of the opinion that they need to.

It is a two way street that Israel cannot be expected to go down alone.
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I don't think concession is the way to go for either state. Yes, both states should be recognised but giving up land will not help as there will always be bad blood going forward. It is the reason for the current conflict in any event so while I respect your opinion and ideas on how to resolve the problem I respectfully disagree that it will be a long-term resolution.

I will again respectfully stress this from a religious viewpoint that the prophecies state that peace will be proclaimed and that there will be a period of peace but it will be short-lived. You do not have to agree of course and I respect that. I'm just saying there are more than the current hiatus to consider in this argument as much as people tend to despise religion or talks of religion nowadays I firmly believe it is just a prophecy being fulfilled. Israel has been split and will be split again - BUT the peace will be short-lived.

Whose land it actually is can also be debated on the above beliefs but I have already given my opinion on that in an earlier post.

"FOR BEHOLD, in those days and at that time when I shall reverse the captivity and restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all nations and will bring them down into the Valley of Jehoshaphat, and there will I deal with and execute judgment upon them for their treatment of My people and of My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations and because they have divided My land."

The first part has already come true on May 14 1948.
 
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