Article: Mugabe has no plans to retire

MickeyD said:
So what is Mad Bob's agenda?
Click to expand...


Massacre the people of Matabele land,
Hate the homosexuals
Kill a few white farmers
Hate the British
Print money until the currency collapses
Blame the west.
Blame the MDC
 
VioAdmin said:
This is clearly your own opinion which I respect. I have already explained to you that it would then be nearly impossible for Zimbambwe to get loans. How do you think countries, especially those in Africa upgrade themselves? You think they just print money and boom, here is a hopsital? No. The game they are trapped in is BORROWING MONEY FROM THE IMF and the other finacial institutions. This is how most African businesses are done(sadly) via loans and pay-backs. Much like how people get loans to buy houses, most people don't buy houses with straight cash.

Zidera has EVERYTHING to do with how a country like Zimbambwe can borrow money. I don't understand why you keep refusing the evidence even though it clearly tells you that with ZIDERA it makes it that much harder for Zimbamwe to borrow money.

Or maybe you don't think Zimbamwer needs to borrow money or do business with the IMF? The web site clearly shows you how those sanctions are hurting Zimbambwe as a country

I also trust a legimate news source and that Zimbamwe news link is more trust worthy then anything on CNN or any outside source as proven by Russia and Syria(check out the new interview on ABC.com or NBC.com[not sure which one] aired a few days ago, he exploits the media)

Here is yet ANOTHER quote:

I am not supporting Mugabe, if he is doing more wrong than good for the majority of the people then of course he should be thrown out but if people are naive enough to think that this sanctions only effect Mugabe clearly have no idea how this world really works.

I strongly urge people to listen to Syria's president interview with that old lady barbara something that aired a few days ago. "Everyone has an agenda..."
Click to expand...

Ummm if you'd actually READ the act properly... you would see that most of the institutions had stopped giving money to Zimbabwe BEFORE ZIDERA was signed into law...

(2) In September 1999 the IMF suspended its support
under a ‘‘Stand By Arrangement’’, approved the previous month,
for economic adjustment and reform in Zimbabwe.
(3) In October 1999, the International Development
Association (in this section referred to as the ‘‘IDA’’) suspended
all structural adjustment loans, credits, and guarantees to the
Government of Zimbabwe.
(4) In May 2000, the IDA suspended all other new lending
to the Government of Zimbabwe.
(5) In September 2000, the IDA suspended disbursement
of funds for ongoing projects under previously-approved loans,
credits, and guarantees to the Government of Zimbabwe
 
B.O.F.H. said:
Ummm if you'd actually READ the act properly... you would see that most of the institutions had stopped giving money to Zimbabwe BEFORE ZIDERA was signed into law...

(2) In September 1999 the IMF suspended its support
under a ‘‘Stand By Arrangement’’, approved the previous month,
for economic adjustment and reform in Zimbabwe.
(3) In October 1999, the International Development
Association (in this section referred to as the ‘‘IDA’’) suspended
all structural adjustment loans, credits, and guarantees to the
Government of Zimbabwe.
(4) In May 2000, the IDA suspended all other new lending
to the Government of Zimbabwe.
(5) In September 2000, the IDA suspended disbursement
of funds for ongoing projects under previously-approved loans,
credits, and guarantees to the Government of Zimbabwe
Click to expand...

...lol EXACTLY

So who exactly do you think this hurts? You clearly just supported my claims saying that whatever sanctions the US/EU is doing and whoever else is, is clearly hurting the people.

With that said, guess who overseas these actions...The US!

So you posting about what they did before or after the ZIDERA act only proves my point. It is the PEOPLE who are suffering. They money surely could have been used to build some infrastructure in Zimbambwe or used in other ways to help the general public or do they believe that the Government was going to keep 100% of all the loans and transfer them into their personal bank accounts?

...Think about that for 3-4 seconds, please.
 
WHY do you think they stopped giving money?

It clearly wasn't because of ZIDERA, because that wasn't signed into law at that point... It MIGHT have been more to do with Zim not actually paying their loans back.. did that ever occur to you?

I suggest you need to stop for more than 3 or 4 seconds.. and think yourself.
 
B.O.F.H. said:
WHY do you think they stopped giving money?

It clearly wasn't because of ZIDERA, because that wasn't signed into law at that point... It MIGHT have been more to do with Zim not actually paying their loans back.. did that ever occur to you?

I suggest you need to stop for more than 3 or 4 seconds.. and think yourself.
Click to expand...

Alright, I waited about 10 seconds and thought about it.

Once again you are clearly missing the picture, you are only seeing the frame.

It doesn't matter WHY, the point is WHO IS SUFFERING? Is Zimbambwe = MUGABE? or Zimbambwe = THE PEOPLE?

I mean...How exactly do you not see that it is the people suffering. Forget the why, the when, the what, the where.

W-H-O? Who is getting hurt? Who will use the roads, who needs the infrastructure? Who needs the hospitals? Who? Mugabe or the people? Choose carefully.
 
VioAdmin said:
Alright, I waited about 10 seconds and thought about it.

Once again you are clearly missing the picture, you are only seeing the frame.

It doesn't matter WHY, the point is WHO IS SUFFERING? Is Zimbambwe = MUGABE? or Zimbambwe = THE PEOPLE?

I mean...How exactly do you not see that it is the people suffering. Forget the why, the when, the what, the where.

W-H-O? Who is getting hurt? Who will use the roads, who needs the infrastructure? Who needs the hospitals? Who? Mugabe or the people? Choose carefully.
Click to expand...

The people who voted for Mugabe are hurting themselves....
 
Ok, so you want the IMF et al to just GIVE Zimbabwe money when they know they will never get it back/

And you want the international economy to collapse along with it hey?
 
B.O.F.H. said:
Ok, so you want the IMF et al to just GIVE Zimbabwe money when they know they will never get it back/

And you want the international economy to collapse along with it hey?
Click to expand...
Damn right! How dare you suggest that they touch Bob and Grace's billions to pay off the national debt???
 
VioAdmin said:
Alright, I waited about 10 seconds and thought about it.

Once again you are clearly missing the picture, you are only seeing the frame.

It doesn't matter WHY, the point is WHO IS SUFFERING? Is Zimbambwe = MUGABE? or Zimbambwe = THE PEOPLE?

I mean...How exactly do you not see that it is the people suffering. Forget the why, the when, the what, the where.

W-H-O? Who is getting hurt? Who will use the roads, who needs the infrastructure? Who needs the hospitals? Who? Mugabe or the people? Choose carefully.
Click to expand...

The whole idea is that the people will feel it and then outvote him through democracy...... !However they can only blame themselves for that.
 
B.O.F.H. said:
Ok, so you want the IMF et al to just GIVE Zimbabwe money when they know they will never get it back/

And you want the international economy to collapse along with it hey?
Click to expand...

...Is that what you think would happen if the IMF lifted it's sanctions? That some how the international economy would collaspe? Zimbambwe was one of the most stable economies in all of Africa.

Now my point is, why haven't they "liberated" Zimbambwe like they have in Libya etc? If they really wanted him out to help the people, why haven't they implemented the same tactics they use in the oil rich countries?

Exactly, they have their own agenda!

With that said. Do we know why Zimbambwe didn't pay back on the loans? On the web site I linked/quoated you earlier, it claims that Zimbambwe is not even able to re-finance it's loans, the sanctions simply will NOT allow them to do so, even if they wanted.

So your claims are invalid and my point still stands, who is suffering Mugabe or the people of Zimbabwe? You haven't answered. Once you answer I think this discussion can end or you can raise more questions and I will try my best to reply.
 
MickeyD said:
The people who voted for Mugabe are hurting themselves....
Click to expand...

Thinking like this is one of the reasons I personally think Africa is where it is at(no offense, I understand what you are trying to say)

But think about it, a lot of these people were 'tricked' into believing Mugabe will solve their issues right? I mean look at what happened with Obama and the "change" crap. Everyone bought into that, we had people in Japan celebrating for days when he was sworn in, we had people in Africa dancing around happy as if the world was suddenly re-born, correct?

This is exactly how politics works, they lie and cheat and people are easily tricked, especially here in Africa where the news and media are easily corrupted with a few dollars.

The people who voted, voted for the message and the promise behind the man, this is the whole point of different parties and Government, correct?

And once some of these people are in power, it is not easy to just remove them. They get hardcore supporters and of course once you are in power, it is easy for you to manipulate and control the media...and of course you already control the police so for people to suddenly speak up against the ruling party it is NOT that easy. The ruling party is already doing what it can to stay in power. This is shown through every country in the world, yes, even in the United States.

I am wrong somewhere?
 
VioAdmin said:
Thinking like this is one of the reasons I personally think Africa is where it is at(no offense, I understand what you are trying to say)

But think about it, a lot of these people were 'tricked' into believing Mugabe will solve their issues right? I mean look at what happened with Obama and the "change" crap. Everyone bought into that, we had people in Japan celebrating for days when he was sworn in, we had people in Africa dancing around happy as if the world was suddenly re-born, correct?

This is exactly how politics works, they lie and cheat and people are easily tricked, especially here in Africa where the news and media are easily corrupted with a few dollars.

The people who voted, voted for the message and the promise behind the man, this is the whole point of different parties and Government, correct?

And once some of these people are in power, it is not easy to just remove them. They get hardcore supporters and of course once you are in power, it is easy for you to manipulate and control the media...and of course you already control the police so for people to suddenly speak up against the ruling party it is NOT that easy. The ruling party is already doing what it can to stay in power. This is shown through every country in the world, yes, even in the United States.

I am wrong somewhere?
Click to expand...
No. So the problem is: how do you effect regime change?

Even after losing the last election, Mugabe refused to relinquish power.
 
Nicodeamus said:
The whole idea is that the people will feel it and then outvote him through democracy...... !However they can only blame themselves for that.
Click to expand...

Is this method really acceptable to you? Have we humans lost touch with reality? I personally think so(myself included perhaps lol)

But think about it, in order to get one man out, they are willing to destroy the country, businesses, roads, hospitals, YOU NAME it. All because they want to take out 1 man or better yet, 1 Party.

Is that really acceptable to you(personally?) -- You don't have to answer but I just want to know what you are thinking.

Like, look at what they did in Libya. Are they saying that what Mugabe is doing is less harmful to his people than what is going on in the middle east?

So their thinking is to cripple the economy until the people are on their knees and finally realize that Mugabe must go. For this they are willing to once again as I have just wrote, kill, destroy and abolish businesses?

Think about how long it will take for them to bounce back even after Mugabe leaves? I mean think about it. Think about how they have to repay the IMF loans with the huge ass interests. There is no debt forgiveness in this world. One really has to start wondering, what is THEIR agenda?

Is it really worth all this? In that case it looks like those in power also think Zimbabwe = Mugabe, instead of Zimbabwe = The people.

Interesting, none the less.
 
VioAdmin said:
...Is that what you think would happen if the IMF lifted it's sanctions? That some how the international economy would collaspe? Zimbambwe was one of the most stable economies in all of Africa.

Now my point is, why haven't they "liberated" Zimbambwe like they have in Libya etc? If they really wanted him out to help the people, why haven't they implemented the same tactics they use in the oil rich countries?

Exactly, they have their own agenda!

With that said. Do we know why Zimbambwe didn't pay back on the loans? On the web site I linked/quoated you earlier, it claims that Zimbambwe is not even able to re-finance it's loans, the sanctions simply will NOT allow them to do so, even if they wanted.

So your claims are invalid and my point still stands, who is suffering Mugabe or the people of Zimbabwe? You haven't answered. Once you answer I think this discussion can end or you can raise more questions and I will try my best to reply.
Click to expand...

Ok, so the IMF blithely gives money to Zimbabwe KNOWING it won't be paid back..

Whats stopping every other country from just not paying back its loans then? hmmmm? did you think about that?

Zimbabwe can't afford to pay its basic international considerations, aka power from SA etc etc etc... where would they get money for paying back the loans?
 
MickeyD said:
No. So the problem is: how do you effect regime change?

Even after losing the last election, Mugabe refused to relinquish power.
Click to expand...

Exactly my friend, so the question is why haven't they invaded Mugabe and taken him out?

Instead they choose to pose crippling sanctions that are slowing down the development of the country. So it ends up like this...

1. Mugabe == He is hurting the people with his actions against protesters or whatever they claim he is doing wrong.

2. US/EU Sanctions == They are hurting the people with their sanctions.


The end result is what? Who is hurting? Mugabe? The US/EU?

No, the result is the people. It's the innocent people, not even the Government officials who are all probably rich and could careless what is going on.

Doesn't that make people wonder, is this really our best solution?

Humans I tell you...
 
How exactly WOULD they invade Zimbabwe?
Please do tell.

To get to Zim they would have to fly over 1 or more of, SA, Botswana, Namibia, Moz, Zambia, Angola....
 
B.O.F.H. said:
How exactly WOULD they invade Zimbabwe?
Please do tell.

To get to Zim they would have to fly over 1 or more of, SA, Botswana, Namibia, Moz, Zambia, Angola....
Click to expand...

You honestly think that the reason why they haven't invaded Zimb to take-out Mugabe is because they have some sort of restriction from other African countries? Is that what you honestly think is stopping NATO or I am not understanding your question?
 
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