Article: Mugabe has no plans to retire

[VioAdmin]

You not follow news much?

He probably IS Mugabe.

The question is do YOU follow the news? Having your braai dinners while watching BBC and debating about England's policies is NOT following news.

http://www.newzimbabwe.com/pages/sanctions36.13187.html

How about you take a good look at that, read it, digest it and "liberate" your own mind.

Those sanctions are being felt by the people not necessary Mugabe himself. They are crippling the country at the expense of peoples jobs, businesses and lives or do you not believe they have sanctions on Zimbambwe via the IMF etc?

@ TJ99 -- Well at least Mugabe is worth a few million dollars and he is president of a country, what have you done with your life? Complaining about your unstable ADSL? or wondering which Graphics Card to get for your World of War Craft?

As I said, if you don't have anything positive to offer to the discussion, it is best you let others do the typing.

 

[Nicodeamus]

Wow Mugabe's life is an achievement?

 

[VioAdmin]

Wow Mugabe's life is an achievement?

Is it not? I am not talking about moral achievements here. But he conquered a country. Look at Nepolian or Alexander "the great" or any of the European colonizers, they murdered millions but even now their conquests are looked at as achievements(to some).

When he dies at least he can say he ruled a country for a few years, whether it will be remembered for as a positive achievement or not in the end doesn't really matter because he still ruled, unfortunate or not.

While the majority of humans are working 9-5 and debating topics on MyBB lol...I am just saying.

 

[shaunvw]

http://http://articles.cnn.com/2011-03-04/world/zimbabwe.human.rights_1_zimbabwean-president-robert-mugabe-southern-african-nation-political-violence?_s=PM:WORLD

Washington has ruled out lifting sanctions on Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe and his inner circle

The sanctions are not on the whole of Zimbabwe only Mugabe and his top officials.

 

[MickeyD]

Is it not? I am not talking about moral achievements here. But he conquered a country. Look at Nepolian or Alexander "the great" or any of the European colonizers, they murdered millions but even now their conquests are looked at as achievements(to some).

When he dies at least he can say he ruled a country for a few years, whether it will be remembered for as a positive achievement or not in the end doesn't really matter because he still ruled, unfortunate or not.

While the majority of humans are working 9-5 and debating topics on MyBB lol...I am just saying.

Tell that to the thousands of Nkomo supporters that Mugabe's 5th Brigade massacred in the 80's.

 

[VioAdmin]

Tell that to the thousands of Nkomo supporters that Mugabe's 5th Brigade massacred in the 80's.

Yes, again, read what I said. This is not about "moral rights" or what is right or what is wrong. I was just replying to that guy about what is an achievement.

People look at the United States as an achievement when they formed it correct? Now go ask that to the Native Americans that are basically extinct or the Slaves that helped build it. That's all I am trying to say.

 

[ToxicBunny]

The question is do YOU follow the news? Having your braai dinners while watching BBC and debating about England's policies is NOT following news.

http://www.newzimbabwe.com/pages/sanctions36.13187.html

How about you take a good look at that, read it, digest it and "liberate" your own mind.

Those sanctions are being felt by the people not necessary Mugabe himself. They are crippling the country at the expense of peoples jobs, businesses and lives or do you not believe they have sanctions on Zimbambwe via the IMF etc?

@ TJ99 -- Well at least Mugabe is worth a few million dollars and he is president of a country, what have you done with your life? Complaining about your unstable ADSL? or wondering which Graphics Card to get for your World of War Craft?

As I said, if you don't have anything positive to offer to the discussion, it is best you let others do the typing.

You need to learn the different between sanctions and targetted sanctions.

There are NO sanctions against Zimbabwe as a whole, only against Mugabe and his inner circle.

Should you require a list, and the type of Sanctions : http://www.3rdliberation.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/The-Zimbabwe-Sanctions-List1.pdf

 

[VioAdmin]

http://http://articles.cnn.com/2011-03-04/world/zimbabwe.human.rights_1_zimbabwean-president-robert-mugabe-southern-african-nation-political-violence?_s=PM:WORLD



The sanctions are not on the whole of Zimbabwe only Mugabe and his top officials.

No. That web site did not go into detail. Go here: http://www.newzimbabwe.com/pages/sanctions36.13187.html

This is news STRAIGHT from Zimbamwe. You cannot pull artcles from CNN who are clearly biased and vague. Read the above link, here is just some of the quotes:

As I explained in my earlier article, in 2001 the United States of America promulgated a law called the Zimbabwe Democracy and Economic Recovery Act (ZIDERA hereafter). That enactment empowered the US President to instruct US representatives on the multilateral lending agencies – such as the IMF, World Bank and Africa Development Bank, among others – to vote against credit facilities (in all their various forms) to Zimbabwe, until the latter improves its human rights record, observance of the rule of law, holds free and fair elections etc. We know the list, and the accusations against Mugabe and Zanu PF in this regard are not without merit. ZIDERA therefore subtly introduces economic sanctions against Zimbabwe.

I repeat, you cannot just look things from one side. Same with what is going on with Syria...You cannot just look at what the EU/US news companies are reporting. You have to at least balance it out by going deeper and getting news directly from the country that is involved.

 

[ToxicBunny]

No. That web site did not go into detail. Go here: http://www.newzimbabwe.com/pages/sanctions36.13187.html

This is news STRAIGHT from Zimbamwe. You cannot pull artcles from CNN who are clearly biased and vague. Read the above link, here is just some of the quotes:


I repeat, you cannot just look things from one side. Same with what is going on with Syria...You cannot just look at what the EU/US news companies are reporting. You have to at least balance it out by going deeper and getting news directly from the country that is involved.

Yes, because Zimbabwe's news will be COMPLETELY unbiased....

Here is a rough run down of ZIDERA, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabwe_Democracy_and_Economic_Recovery_Act_of_2001

It is again targetted sanctions, and yes the US will vote against the EXTENSION of credit facilities stemming from the IMF and such, or the indebtedness of Zim to the USA... but that does not impact the people of Zim directly... the government there does.

 

[sand_man]

But he conquered a country.

And now he has conquered and enslaved its population. He has reduced the economy to naught and the people to mere peasants while his "inner circle" enjoy opulence reserved for royalty!!! What a man!!! A role model for the continent and fellow African leaders... Rape, steal, plunder and pillage and when there is nothing left rape, steal, plunder and pillage some more... With the one hand slap the West and with the other take its charity... Viva bob, viva...

 

[VioAdmin]

No. That web site did not go into detail. Go here: http://www.newzimbabwe.com/pages/sanctions36.13187.html

This is news STRAIGHT from Zimbamwe. You cannot pull artcles from CNN who are clearly biased and vague. Read the above link, here is just some of the quotes:


I repeat, you cannot just look things from one side. Same with what is going on with Syria...You cannot just look at what the EU/US news companies are reporting. You have to at least balance it out by going deeper and getting news directly from the country that is involved.

That is the point, who do YOU trust? Local news or news from EU/US who are not even in that country daily? Look at what is happening right now with Fox News and Russia? How they showed fake riots from Greece and they aired them as if they were happening in Russia(they were caught and have since apologized) You can google this to verify.

So who do you trust again? News24 or BBC when it comes to reporting about what is going on in South Africa?

Here is some more quotes:

ZIDERA was a significant milestone. From the date of its promulgation, any Zimbabwe foreign currency loan application made to the IMF, World Bank, the Africa Development Bank, among others, stood to be scuttled by the US, directly through its vote, or indirectly through its influence within the institutions. On the international credit markets, with its junk investment status, Zimbabwe became an untouchable, because of its loan defaults and also because of the natural consequences following the promulgation of ZIDERA.

It also meant that any loan application made by Zimbabwe to any multilateral or bilateral international lending agency would carry an exorbitantly high cost, if they were willing to do business at all. This economic cost is quantifiable.

You cannot say that these actions are not effecting the people of Zimbabwe, to say so is down right 'blasphemy'. How can they upgrade their infracture, build hospitals, schools etc when they are have trouble getting loans? How can they import HIV medicine etc when the US overseas all of that?

I mean, the evidence is right there. The US would not be stupid to pose sanctions just directly on Mugabe, they know that in order for Mugabe to step down, they have to make lives horrible for Zimbabweans so that they protest or run away, how can you say that the people are not feeling these crack downs? How?

 

[Rosaudio]

No. That web site did not go into detail. Go here: http://www.newzimbabwe.com/pages/sanctions36.13187.html

This is news STRAIGHT from Zimbamwe. You cannot pull artcles from CNN who are clearly biased and vague. Read the above link, here is just some of the quotes:


I repeat, you cannot just look things from one side. Same with what is going on with Syria...You cannot just look at what the EU/US news companies are reporting. You have to at least balance it out by going deeper and getting news directly from the country that is involved.

LOL, you think Zimbabwean news is unbiased?

/facepalm

 

[VioAdmin]

And now he has conquered and enslaved its population. He has reduced the economy to naught and the people to mere peasants while his "inner circle" enjoy opulence reserved for royalty!!! What a man!!! A role model for the continent and fellow African leaders... Rape, steal, plunder and pillage and when there is nothing left rape, steal, plunder and pillage some more... With the one hand slap the West and with the other take its charity... Viva bob, viva...

I have already answered this, please look directly at what I said to Mickey D. This is not about what is right or wrong. I was just explaining that no matter what happenes, Mugabe can at least say(in his own mind at least) that he was born on earth, and conquered a country and left with a few million dollars to his family and allies. Once again, I am not debating about his moral decisions. That is for another topic.

 

[VioAdmin]

LOL, you think Zimbabwean news is unbiased?

/facepalm

I never said that. Once again, read what I said too him on the first reply. I said you have to at least BALANCE IT OUT. You have to have have views from both sides, inside(zimbambwe) and outside(EU/US)

And then make your assumptions based on that, no?

 

[ToxicBunny]

That is the point, who do YOU trust? Local news or news from EU/US who are not even in that country daily? Look at what is happening right now with Fox News and Russia? How they showed fake riots from Greece and they aired them as if they were happening in Russia(they were caught and have since apologized) You can google this to verify.

So who do you trust again? News24 or BBC when it comes to reporting about what is going on in South Africa?

Here is some more quotes:

You cannot say that these actions are not effecting the people of Zimbabwe, to say so is down right 'blasphemy'. How can they upgrade their infracture, build hospitals, schools etc when they are have trouble getting loans? How can they import HIV medicine etc when the US overseas all of that?

I mean, the evidence is right there. The US would not be stupid to pose sanctions just directly on Mugabe, they know that in order for Mugabe to step down, they have to make lives horrible for Zimbabweans so that they protest or run away, how can you say that the people are not feeling these crack downs? How?

I trust legitimate news sources since they have to fact check etc etc etc.... some random website doesn't.

I also actually trust reading the legislation myself, which I have done and you clearly haven't.

That quote has alot to do with maybe's and coulds and nothing CONCRETE, other than the fact that Zimbabwe has a junk investment status, which has sweet FA to do with ZIDERA and pretty much everything to do with its loan defaults.... Would you lend money to someone who is more than 95% likely NOT to pay you a single cent back?

ZIDERA has nothign to do with Zim building hospitals or schools or anything of the sort, and for you to link the two is disingenuous.

There is no evidence that ZIDERA has done anything other than formalise the stance of the US to Zimbabwe in terms of its dealings through international monetary vehicles. And it has sweet FEKALL to do with making the lives of the Zimbabwean citizens miserable, the only group that are responsbile for that are ZANU-PF, but then I don't expect you to understand that very basic concept because from what I can gather ZANU-PF are your heros.

 

[ToxicBunny]

I never said that. Once again, read what I said too him on the first reply. I said you have to at least BALANCE IT OUT. You have to have have views from both sides, inside(zimbambwe) and outside(EU/US)

And then make your assumptions based on that, no?

How about you actually go and READ the act yourself, then you don't have to rely on news sources
http://www.coherentbabble.com/PublicLaws/S494PL107-99.pdf

 

[sand_man]

But he conquered a country.

Ironic that he conquered the country (Rhodesia) under duress from the UN and sanctions...

 

[VioAdmin]

I trust legitimate news sources since they have to fact check etc etc etc.... some random website doesn't.

I also actually trust reading the legislation myself, which I have done and you clearly haven't.

That quote has alot to do with maybe's and coulds and nothing CONCRETE, other than the fact that Zimbabwe has a junk investment status, which has sweet FA to do with ZIDERA and pretty much everything to do with its loan defaults.... Would you lend money to someone who is more than 95% likely NOT to pay you a single cent back?

ZIDERA has nothign to do with Zim building hospitals or schools or anything of the sort, and for you to link the two is disingenuous.

There is no evidence that ZIDERA has done anything other than formalise the stance of the US to Zimbabwe in terms of its dealings through international monetary vehicles. And it has sweet FEKALL to do with making the lives of the Zimbabwean citizens miserable, the only group that are responsbile for that are ZANU-PF, but then I don't expect you to understand that very basic concept because from what I can gather ZANU-PF are your heros.

This is clearly your own opinion which I respect. I have already explained to you that it would then be nearly impossible for Zimbambwe to get loans. How do you think countries, especially those in Africa upgrade themselves? You think they just print money and boom, here is a hopsital? No. The game they are trapped in is BORROWING MONEY FROM THE IMF and the other finacial institutions. This is how most African businesses are done(sadly) via loans and pay-backs. Much like how people get loans to buy houses, most people don't buy houses with straight cash.

Zidera has EVERYTHING to do with how a country like Zimbambwe can borrow money. I don't understand why you keep refusing the evidence even though it clearly tells you that with ZIDERA it makes it that much harder for Zimbamwe to borrow money.

Or maybe you don't think Zimbamwer needs to borrow money or do business with the IMF? The web site clearly shows you how those sanctions are hurting Zimbambwe as a country

I also trust a legimate news source and that Zimbamwe news link is more trust worthy then anything on CNN or any outside source as proven by Russia and Syria(check out the new interview on ABC.com or NBC.com[not sure which one] aired a few days ago, he exploits the media)

Here is yet ANOTHER quote:

However, in the absence of ZIDERA Zimbabwe would have been able to negotiate with the IMF with a view to reschedule or cancel its debt payment, or apply for more finance. I believe that the impact can also be quantified.
On travel sanctions, it is arguable that prohibiting Mugabe, his wife and other ZANU PF members from travelling overseas saves the country much needed foreign currency. Probable; but does prohibiting the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe Governor from travelling to Australia, New Zealand and other countries to enter into business discussions with Zimbabweans in the Diaspora not have a negative economic impact on Zimbabwe?

I am not supporting Mugabe, if he is doing more wrong than good for the majority of the people then of course he should be thrown out but if people are naive enough to think that this sanctions only effect Mugabe clearly have no idea how this world really works.

I strongly urge people to listen to Syria's president interview with that old lady barbara something that aired a few days ago. "Everyone has an agenda..."

 

[MickeyD]

I strongly urge people to listen to Syria's president interview with that old lady barbara something that aired a few days ago. "Everyone has an agenda..."

So what is Mad Bob's agenda?

 

[VioAdmin]

So what is Mad Bob's agenda?

lol Just like what the Syrian President said, "You have to ask him(them) yourself".

I wish I knew but speculating is as good as not saying anything because we really don't know what goes inside that man's head.

He claims he is doing it to liberate his people from the clutches of West right? Like he echo's this in his speeches and all that but...Who knows, who really knows.