Bandwidth hogs - are they real?

Do you think bandwidth hogs adversely affect other users on the network?

  • Yes

    Votes: 84 29.4%
  • No

    Votes: 202 70.6%

  • Total voters
    286
I use about 4-8Tb a month between my 8 lines... Does that make me a Bandwidth hog?? Even thou i pay for all my bandwidth...

People cant be blame for it personally... Telkom's epic failure to upgrade there internal network infrastructure causes the biggest head aches for any internet users and service providers in South Africa...
 
there are many snouts in the bandwidth trough
the SA consumers' is not one of them
 
If you buy a sports car, you aren't automatically allowed to drive it at it's max speed all day, without ever having to pay for petrol. So saying that you are only using something you already paid for is complete BS.

You get a 4Mb ADSL line for it's burst speed. This does not entitle you to hammer that line at max speed all month long. There are many people here who just queue up torrents for the sake of "getting their moneys worth" and thereby skew the average usage.

ISPs "oversell" their bandwidth by putting more users on a line than it can theoretically handle. This is called contention. This means that they can sell the bandwidth more cheaply because they know that not all of their users will be using their line at full speed 100% of the time (Think timeshare). This is awesome for consumers because they can get a higher burst speed at a much lower cost, so when they want to download something, it will be fast....but if you get some users that use the full burst speed 100% of the time, then they are eating into the speed of all of the other users, causing a degradation of service.

Flame me all you want. The fact is that bandwidth hogs are one of the reasons we are still in the Internet stone age...besides telkom, icasa and poison ivy.
 
Here is the crux of the matter!!!

According to Felten it is not justified to call users hogs merely because they download more than others. “Blaming them for network congestion is actually an admission that telcos are uncomfortable with the 'all you can eat' broadband schemes that they themselves introduced on the market to get people to subscribe. In other words, the marketing push to get people to subscribe to broadband worked, but now the telcos see a missed opportunity at price discrimination,” he writes.
 
Bandwidth hogs are not the issue, the issue is ISP's overselling a service as full speed. THey should just factor the contention ratios in and advertise a minimum speed IMO. Give people the reality that they are not going to get high speeds all the time. Find a way to let them know when they log on what the contention is - peeps to kbps. IMO it's this last point that really makes ISP's false advertisers. On top of that, there should be no such thing as unshaped unless you have 1:1 contention. Traffic SHOULD be managed between users, otherwise the guy with a 30 pipe connection to the news server gets grand speeds while everyone else struggles.
 
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+1

It seems a lot are commenting without reading the article.

The same lot will blindly chase the unicorns.

You get a 4Mb ADSL line for it's burst speed. This does not entitle you to hammer that line at max speed all month long. There are many people here who just queue up torrents for the sake of "getting their moneys worth" and thereby skew the average usage.

Bull, or should I say pig ****. A person pays for a line speed, expecting that line speed ( Been reading too much chilli have you? ). Most uncapped accounts are active after working hours and hence with the increase of bandwidth capacity of business users not being used, there is plenty bandwidth capacity available. People are paying a premuim for "speed" billed access over "data" billed access. It is the ISP's problem to manage the two and ensure the one does not interfere with the other. I'm by no means a hog although I would say I'm a heavy user and I pay for that right according to international standards.

Said it before and will say it again, complaining about the uncapped accounts is merely sour grapes. Here's a question: before broadband , why did no data caps exist? Don't you think the ISP's would have had the same issues? Consider that.
 
People should actually read the article before commenting and voting.

They are to f..king lazy to read and they are all ill informed.:erm: If bandwith hogs did exist then why is the internet not down most of the time in countries where access is far better and faster than here:confused: It's just another tactic from the supplier to milk/rape the consumer :eek:
 
Now y'all know, I don't know nuthin'.....but I see a lil halo around this word: "CONTENTION"
Am I the only who doesnt get the reason/need for this anomoly?
When you sign up with your ISP, do they tell you, whether printed in your contract, or when the agent is trying to convince you why their service is that much better, that you will in fact not be able to use, what you "think" you are going to pay for?
Why am I MADE to share anything? With anyone? Am I paying, like Cat011 suggested for: TimeShare?
Obviously I'm ranting, but I'd like to see if someone can justify this for me.
 
Hmmm.

Interesting read
Especially the part of TCP/IP Spreading the capacity between users.
If I hammer a 100mb lan connection and the guy next to me also hammer his 100mb lan connection with both of us accessing the same pc who is also on a 100mb connection we both only get 50mb worth of uplink. The next guy who only wants 20mb worth of connection will effectively have the capability to get 33.3 mb worth of uplink even though he only wants 20mb.

/Ponders
 
If you buy a sports car, you aren't automatically allowed to drive it at it's max speed all day, without ever having to pay for petrol. So saying that you are only using something you already paid for is complete BS.

You get a 4Mb ADSL line for it's burst speed. This does not entitle you to hammer that line at max speed all month long. There are many people here who just queue up torrents for the sake of "getting their moneys worth" and thereby skew the average usage.

ISPs "oversell" their bandwidth by putting more users on a line than it can theoretically handle. This is called contention. This means that they can sell the bandwidth more cheaply because they know that not all of their users will be using their line at full speed 100% of the time (Think timeshare). This is awesome for consumers because they can get a higher burst speed at a much lower cost, so when they want to download something, it will be fast....but if you get some users that use the full burst speed 100% of the time, then they are eating into the speed of all of the other users, causing a degradation of service.

Flame me all you want. The fact is that bandwidth hogs are one of the reasons we are still in the Internet stone age...besides telkom, icasa and poison ivy.

We all know about contention, however you've misinterpreted the biggest complaint amongst SA consumers. Price.

"This is awesome for consumers because they can get a higher burst speed at a much lower cost..."

Here's your mistake ^^^. A "much lower cost" would be R50 per month, uncapped. (If we all followed your recommendation of not abusing an uncapped line.) An example: DFA sells a 40 Gbps line for R 100 000 pm. Assuming the end user has a 4 Mbps line and the ISP can implement a contention of 20:1, that portion of the link should cost the ISP R 0.50 per user, per month. Telkom will provide that same line, but charge several million.

It's not the bandwidth hogs that skew prices in SA, it's the 6 or so "real ISPs" and Telkom.

And even if I want 1:1 contention (IE: using the line to it's maximum, all day, every day) on a DFA line, 4Mbps would cost R10 per month. Admin should be negligible for a big ISP, and a big onward link to London is going to be cheap as chips on any of the new undersea cables once the rest of them land. (Not that Seacom costs all that much, even today.)
 
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Hmmm.

Interesting read
Especially the part of TCP/IP Spreading the capacity between users.
If I hammer a 100mb lan connection and the guy next to me also hammer his 100mb lan connection with both of us accessing the same pc who is also on a 100mb connection we both only get 50mb worth of uplink. The next guy who only wants 20mb worth of connection will effectively have the capability to get 33.3 mb worth of uplink even though he only wants 20mb.

/Ponders

Except where QOS is concerned. One guy may get 80mbps and one 20mbps without realizing it. Sometimes number of virtual connections come into play but if the switch is not properly managed, then it's not going to be even. Think... 20 people sharing a pipe - 19 are browsing and 1 is downloading with 30 pipes. What do you think the 1 is going to get vs the 19?
 
Whilst there are some good arguments here against small caps (which are often there to milk customers), the technical understanding of these analysts leaves something to be desired, and they clearly don't really understand what happens in real networks.

For a start, it's not about averages at all, but about the instantaneous traffic presented to the network at peak times. Operators build networks to handle these peaks, and it is certainly true that a small number of users can dramatically change the peak level of traffic presented.

Contention at the access layer has more or less nothing to do with TCP/IP, but is a function of the layer 2 architecture (where multiple wireline users share a single access switch and its backhaul capacity - ATM in old DSL implementations, and Ethernet in newer ones). In wireless networks, it's much simpler, because the real constraint is the available bandwidth on a single sector (something that cannot easily be adjusted, unlike wireline) and one or two users with sustained high demand can do a lot more damage, since the multiple access protocols (e.g. in 3G networks) are designed to give high instantaneous bandwidth to an individual user, and hence reasonable performance for every user. What makes any access network practical at all is that a small proportion of users want lots of bandwidth at any one instant.

In the core network, it's true that the issue is how routers deal with TCP/IP when there is more traffic offered than the available bandwidth, and packets must be delayed or discarded.

However, the reason for individual users being able to "hog" the network is precisely because of the egalitarian nature of TCP/IP. Typical router queuing mechanisms do quite a good job of giving each TCP stream roughly the same priority and performance. However, since TCP has no inherent mechanism to address true "fairness" between users (rather than TCP ports / sessions), applications that want to grab more resources can employ various clever tricks, notably opening multiple parallel sessions.

Some interesting theoretical work has been done to "fix" TCP to enable really fair resource sharing between users, and to prevent these "hogging" strategies from being effective. Obviously, one can apply separate QoS mechanisms (e.g. MPLS etc) to try to improve matters, but typically not in regular broadband services, which are generally pure, best effort IP.
 
Profound

there are many snouts in the bandwidth trough
the SA consumers' is not one of them

WOW Dom

So profound for so early in the morning :D

A few lines -- a small Hydrogen bomb :eek:

I am not sure that everyone fully appreciates ( coming from you ) the gravitas of your few words.

Care to name and shame em :erm: :eek:

MW
 
Anybody who uses the term "bandwidth hog" is admitting that their network is pi$$ poor and not designed for modern Internet demands. Get with the program. Lay some fiber. Give the consumers the internet they demand... or someone else will.
 
Modern Internet

Anybody who uses the term "bandwidth hog" is admitting that their network is pi$$ poor and not designed for modern Internet demands.
Get with the program. Lay some fiber.
Give the consumers the internet they demand... or someone else will.

CambodiaDave has a "BIG-Hammer" :eek::D

He is prepared to lease it out at a sufficiently attractive kings ransom :D

:rolleyes:

MW
 
Except where QOS is concerned. One guy may get 80mbps and one 20mbps without realizing it. Sometimes number of virtual connections come into play but if the switch is not properly managed, then it's not going to be even. Think... 20 people sharing a pipe - 19 are browsing and 1 is downloading with 30 pipes. What do you think the 1 is going to get vs the 19?

My example was without QOS in mind and all users doing the same with their connection.
The ISP's implement QOS to limit "abusive protocols". Hence us all having shaped connections and not unshaped.
 
what a crock of shyte!
theyve spent all this time thinking up a pathetic excuse to back their customer raping cap system
thats proudly South African for you!
Proudly South African= talk the moment up, and when it comes to the moment, theres nothing

Funny then that the US etc have started implementing caps.....
 
Let's try a little experiment.

You get together with some friends and build a local Wireless User Group, and all put in some money to buy uncapped Internet connectivity. One of your members has a room full of PCs, and several small businesses on the side, running torrents over your network more or less permanently, so that none of the rest of you ever see more than half the available bandwidth.

Do you:

  • Educate him with a baseball bat?
  • Disconnect him (implement a fair use policy)?
  • Make him pay (i.e. start billing for download)?
  • Implement soft-capping (i.e. bill him, and no-one else)?
  • Implement hard-capping, to give the rest a chance?
  • Spend some more of your own money, and shape his bandwidth?
Actual prices, actual bandwidth etc aside, is the problem now obvious? What do you think is actually the fairest mechanism? Who thinks it's fair just to let him carry on using all the bandwidth at no extra cost?
 
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